Digital BW, The Print

A few days back I got some samples of Lyson's new "Archival Quality 
Premium Matte" and "Archival Quality Premium Glossy" papers.

These papers are reportedly an entirely in-house development by Lyson, 
with production, of course, outsourced to a European manufacturer.

I've tried so many papers that I'm more than a bit skeptical when stuff 
like this comes in the door these days.. It's generally like "aggh!! 
another paper?!!" I did however test these papers with both pigments and 
dyes on Canon S9000s, EPSON 1280s, and EPSON 1270s.

First, the heft of both papers is considerable.  Their physical feel and 
stiffness are wholly reminiscent of matte and gloss traditional FB 
papers. However, they fed flawlessly through all the machines.

I printed 21 step wedges on both media and love the results with EVERY 
ink I tried.

Blacks are deep, rich, and transitions are smooth without tweaking 
default output.

All that would be good news already, but I've always had problems with 
any glossy paper holding the pigment when using the MIS VM-S inks with 
warm toned curves  - ruboff has always been a huge problem - solvable by 
spraying but I don't like spraying every print. So, I wondered how well 
this new Lyson glossy media would hold the pigments (heresy of heresies 
I know.. but I was curious).  Well, I'll say I'm dumbfounded.. not 
simply impressed.  On every other glossy paper I've used, the VM-S inks 
rubbed off.  But, on the Lyson Archival Quality Glossy media.... well, 
let me give some detail..

Immediately after printing there was no bronzing, but pigments did 
ruboff somewhat, so I was resigned to another failure.  I still decided 
to wait a day, hoping that results might be different after drydown, 
letting the print cure.  Twenty-four hours later I checked again.. The 
high ink load areas felt different from from other areas, by different, 
I don't mean raised or that annoying embossed feel of some swellable 
polymer papers, the paper felt slightly tack to the touch when compared 
to areas with low or no ink load.  However, there was no rub-off! NONE!  
and no bronzing!  The tackiness still annoyed me, so I waited a bit 
more.. At the two day point the tackiness is negligible and clearly 
decreasing with time. 

Most importantly to me.  The finished prints look and feel as much like 
traditional FB prints (glossy and matte) as anything I've tried.

I can't give you dMax numbers as I don't have a densitomer (yet), but 
these papers are the best new media I have seen in some time.  I'll try 
them with my UT 2 inks next, but given the results with the VM-S they 
should shine with the UT 2 inkset.

These papers seem to be a multi-layer hybrid of some type, given the 
differentials I am seeing over time and the tackiness in high ink load 
areas etc.

Now for the bad news.

1)   The glossy paper should NOT be used in the 2200 - the "heavier" 
pizza wheels in that machine (and others with a similar setup) WILL 
leave tracks.

2)   For now, the papers are only available in A4 and A3 sizes... Lyson 
USA hopes to be able to supply these papers in sizes up to 13x19 soon.

I CAN say though, that I've found new papers of choice for headshots, 
retouching, and other letter sized and A3 output..

I'll try and get Paul some samples to test for dMax and in his fade chamber.


 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I should have noted that prints done on these media with Lyson dyes 
(Fotonics, Lysonics, and Small Gamut from both EPSON and Canon printers) 
show negligible, if any metamerism.


 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Okay, Keith, now you've got me on edge...wishing I could get  
hold of these papers - in any size - and give them a go through 
the 1160 with the Quad Black inks.  Especially the glossy.

- Barrett

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor 
P.O.V. Image Service" <editor@p...> wrote:
> I should have noted that prints done on these media with
> Lyson dyes (Fotonics, Lysonics, and Small Gamut from both 
> EPSON and Canon printers) show negligible, if any 
metamerism.

That's wonderful news, Keith.  I intend to try it with my 1270.
You mentioned that the glossy paper will not work on the 2200 because 
of the pizza wheels.  Have you actually tried this?  I love my 2200 
and would like to make better glossy prints with it.  Thanks!

Kiefer Elliott
Vancouver, Canada


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V. 
Image Service" <editor@p...> wrote:
> 
> A few days back I got some samples of Lyson's new "Archival Quality 
> Premium Matte" and "Archival Quality Premium Glossy" papers.
> 
> These papers are reportedly an entirely in-house development by 
Lyson, 
> with production, of course, outsourced to a European manufacturer.
> 
> I've tried so many papers that I'm more than a bit skeptical when 
stuff 
> like this comes in the door these days.. It's generally 
like "aggh!! 
> another paper?!!" I did however test these papers with both 
pigments and 
> dyes on Canon S9000s, EPSON 1280s, and EPSON 1270s.
> 
> First, the heft of both papers is considerable.  Their physical 
feel and 
> stiffness are wholly reminiscent of matte and gloss traditional FB 
> papers. However, they fed flawlessly through all the machines.
> 
> I printed 21 step wedges on both media and love the results with 
EVERY 
> ink I tried.
> 
> Blacks are deep, rich, and transitions are smooth without tweaking 
> default output.
> 
> All that would be good news already, but I've always had problems 
with 
> any glossy paper holding the pigment when using the MIS VM-S inks 
with 
> warm toned curves  - ruboff has always been a huge problem - 
solvable by 
> spraying but I don't like spraying every print. So, I wondered how 
well 
> this new Lyson glossy media would hold the pigments (heresy of 
heresies 
> I know.. but I was curious).  Well, I'll say I'm dumbfounded.. not 
> simply impressed.  On every other glossy paper I've used, the VM-S 
inks 
> rubbed off.  But, on the Lyson Archival Quality Glossy media.... 
well, 
> let me give some detail..
> 
> Immediately after printing there was no bronzing, but pigments did 
> ruboff somewhat, so I was resigned to another failure.  I still 
decided 
> to wait a day, hoping that results might be different after 
drydown, 
> letting the print cure.  Twenty-four hours later I checked again.. 
The 
> high ink load areas felt different from from other areas, by 
different, 
> I don't mean raised or that annoying embossed feel of some 
swellable 
> polymer papers, the paper felt slightly tack to the touch when 
compared 
> to areas with low or no ink load.  However, there was no rub-off! 
NONE!  
> and no bronzing!  The tackiness still annoyed me, so I waited a bit 
> more.. At the two day point the tackiness is negligible and clearly 
> decreasing with time. 
> 
> Most importantly to me.  The finished prints look and feel as much 
like 
> traditional FB prints (glossy and matte) as anything I've tried.
> 
> I can't give you dMax numbers as I don't have a densitomer (yet), 
but 
> these papers are the best new media I have seen in some time.  I'll 
try 
> them with my UT 2 inks next, but given the results with the VM-S 
they 
> should shine with the UT 2 inkset.
> 
> These papers seem to be a multi-layer hybrid of some type, given 
the 
> differentials I am seeing over time and the tackiness in high ink 
load 
> areas etc.
> 
> Now for the bad news.
> 
> 1)   The glossy paper should NOT be used in the 2200 - 
the "heavier" 
> pizza wheels in that machine (and others with a similar setup) WILL 
> leave tracks.
> 
> 2)   For now, the papers are only available in A4 and A3 sizes... 
Lyson 
> USA hopes to be able to supply these papers in sizes up to 13x19 
soon.
> 
> I CAN say though, that I've found new papers of choice for 
headshots, 
> retouching, and other letter sized and A3 output..
> 
> I'll try and get Paul some samples to test for dMax and in his fade 
chamber.
> 
> 
>  
> Keith Krebs
> 
> "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON 
printer 
> User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
> Publications), at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
> and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
> "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks 
together 

> guys"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The wheels on a 2200 can be removed or pushed out of the way using a 
cut up credit card. I did see someone recently selling such a piece 
of plastic, I think it may be MIS. This will eliminate wheel marks.
How do I get some sample paper?
Sierra Gold--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "slightlyoutoffocus" 
<by_design@y...> wrote:
> That's wonderful news, Keith.  I intend to try it with my 1270.
> You mentioned that the glossy paper will not work on the 2200 
because 
> of the pizza wheels.  Have you actually tried this?  I love my 2200 
> and would like to make better glossy prints with it.  Thanks!
> 
> Kiefer Elliott
> Vancouver, Canada
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V. 
> Image Service" <editor@p...> wrote:
> > 
> > A few days back I got some samples of Lyson's new "Archival 
Quality 
> > Premium Matte" and "Archival Quality Premium Glossy" papers.
> > 
> > These papers are reportedly an entirely in-house development by 
> Lyson, 
> > with production, of course, outsourced to a European manufacturer.
> > 
> > I've tried so many papers that I'm more than a bit skeptical when 
> stuff 
> > like this comes in the door these days.. It's generally 
> like "aggh!! 
> > another paper?!!" I did however test these papers with both 
> pigments and 
> > dyes on Canon S9000s, EPSON 1280s, and EPSON 1270s.
> > 
> > First, the heft of both papers is considerable.  Their physical 
> feel and 
> > stiffness are wholly reminiscent of matte and gloss traditional 
FB 
> > papers. However, they fed flawlessly through all the machines.
> > 
> > I printed 21 step wedges on both media and love the results with 
> EVERY 
> > ink I tried.
> > 
> > Blacks are deep, rich, and transitions are smooth without 
tweaking 
> > default output.
> > 
> > All that would be good news already, but I've always had problems 
> with 
> > any glossy paper holding the pigment when using the MIS VM-S inks 
> with 
> > warm toned curves  - ruboff has always been a huge problem - 
> solvable by 
> > spraying but I don't like spraying every print. So, I wondered 
how 
> well 
> > this new Lyson glossy media would hold the pigments (heresy of 
> heresies 
> > I know.. but I was curious).  Well, I'll say I'm dumbfounded.. 
not 
> > simply impressed.  On every other glossy paper I've used, the VM-
S 
> inks 
> > rubbed off.  But, on the Lyson Archival Quality Glossy media.... 
> well, 
> > let me give some detail..
> > 
> > Immediately after printing there was no bronzing, but pigments 
did 
> > ruboff somewhat, so I was resigned to another failure.  I still 
> decided 
> > to wait a day, hoping that results might be different after 
> drydown, 
> > letting the print cure.  Twenty-four hours later I checked 
again.. 
> The 
> > high ink load areas felt different from from other areas, by 
> different, 
> > I don't mean raised or that annoying embossed feel of some 
> swellable 
> > polymer papers, the paper felt slightly tack to the touch when 
> compared 
> > to areas with low or no ink load.  However, there was no rub-off! 
> NONE!  
> > and no bronzing!  The tackiness still annoyed me, so I waited a 
bit 
> > more.. At the two day point the tackiness is negligible and 
clearly 
> > decreasing with time. 
> > 
> > Most importantly to me.  The finished prints look and feel as 
much 
> like 
> > traditional FB prints (glossy and matte) as anything I've tried.
> > 
> > I can't give you dMax numbers as I don't have a densitomer (yet), 
> but 
> > these papers are the best new media I have seen in some time.  
I'll 
> try 
> > them with my UT 2 inks next, but given the results with the VM-S 
> they 
> > should shine with the UT 2 inkset.
> > 
> > These papers seem to be a multi-layer hybrid of some type, given 
> the 
> > differentials I am seeing over time and the tackiness in high ink 
> load 
> > areas etc.
> > 
> > Now for the bad news.
> > 
> > 1)   The glossy paper should NOT be used in the 2200 - 
> the "heavier" 
> > pizza wheels in that machine (and others with a similar setup) 
WILL 
> > leave tracks.
> > 
> > 2)   For now, the papers are only available in A4 and A3 sizes... 
> Lyson 
> > USA hopes to be able to supply these papers in sizes up to 13x19 
> soon.
> > 
> > I CAN say though, that I've found new papers of choice for 
> headshots, 
> > retouching, and other letter sized and A3 output..
> > 
> > I'll try and get Paul some samples to test for dMax and in his 
fade 

> chamber.
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > Keith Krebs
> > 
> > "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON 
> printer 
> > User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
> > Publications), at:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
> > and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
> > "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks 
> together 
> > guys"
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]