Yahoo Groups archive

Digital BW, The Print

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:56 UTC

Thread

PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by Johnny Eades

I print a 21 step grayscale according to the instructions with 
PiezoBW ICC manual and the middle section is the same shade from 40% 
to 60%. No matter how I adjust it, the same results happen. This is 
being printed from the Piezotone warm neutral cartridges with Museum 
Black. Has anyone else had this same problem. I just finished 
printing an image from the Library of Congress thinking it may be 
something wrong with my images; and I get the same result.So it isn't 
just a grayscale that printw too light in the midsection, it's 
anything I print.


Your frustrated friend in photography,

Johnny Eades

RE: [Digital BW] PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by Richard

-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Johnny Eades [mailto:jeades1@...] 
Sent: 02 March 2004 03:52
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

I print a 21 step grayscale according to the instructions with 
PiezoBW ICC manual and the middle section is the same shade from 40% 
to 60%. No matter how I adjust it, the same results happen. This is 
being printed from the Piezotone warm neutral cartridges with Museum 
Black. Has anyone else had this same problem. I just finished 
printing an image from the Library of Congress thinking it may be 
something wrong with my images; and I get the same result.So it isn't 
just a grayscale that printw too light in the midsection, it's 
anything I print.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you saying that 40-60 prints as a solid block?

Richard



---
[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility 
to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
currently using to read this email. ]

Re: [Digital BW] PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by Johnny Eades

Hello Richard,

That's right-just a block of the same tone right in the middle. I'm 
about to chuck this and go back to Black Only where I have all the 
steps to work with. I thought this was supposed to be more or less 
out of the box procedure. I've used about 25% of the cartridge ink 
already and haven't made the first decent print. 

Help


Johnny eades




-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" 
<richard@r...> wrote:
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Johnny Eades [mailto:jeades1@s...] 
> Sent: 02 March 2004 03:52
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE
> 
> I print a 21 step grayscale according to the instructions with 
> PiezoBW ICC manual and the middle section is the same shade from 
40% 
> to 60%. No matter how I adjust it, the same results happen. This is 
> being printed from the Piezotone warm neutral cartridges with 
Museum 
> Black. Has anyone else had this same problem. I just finished 
> printing an image from the Library of Congress thinking it may be 
> something wrong with my images; and I get the same result.So it 
isn't 
> just a grayscale that printw too light in the midsection, it's 
> anything I print.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> 
> Are you saying that 40-60 prints as a solid block?
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> [This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your 
responsibility 
> to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you 
are
> currently using to read this email. ]

RE: [Digital BW] PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by Richard

-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Johnny Eades [mailto:jeades1@...] 
Sent: 02 March 2004 04:41
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

Hello Richard,

That's right-just a block of the same tone right in the middle. I'm 
about to chuck this and go back to Black Only where I have all the 
steps to work with. I thought this was supposed to be more or less 
out of the box procedure. I've used about 25% of the cartridge ink 
already and haven't made the first decent print. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume you can see the steps on the monitor???

Richard


---
[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility 
to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
currently using to read this email. ]

Re: [Digital BW] PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by Johnny Eades

Everything looks just fine on the monitor but the print is shot in 
the middle. I've exhausted my bag of tricks on this one. Usually I 
can cobble up something that solves the problem, but this one has me 
whipped.

Johnny eades

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" 
<richard@r...> wrote:
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Johnny Eades [mailto:jeades1@s...] 
> Sent: 02 March 2004 04:41
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE
> 
> Hello Richard,
> 
> That's right-just a block of the same tone right in the middle. I'm 
> about to chuck this and go back to Black Only where I have all the 
> steps to work with. I thought this was supposed to be more or less 
> out of the box procedure. I've used about 25% of the cartridge ink 
> already and haven't made the first decent print. 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> I assume you can see the steps on the monitor???
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> ---
> [This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your 
responsibility 
> to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you 
are
> currently using to read this email. ]

Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by flyfishingusa2002

I'm assuming that you are using Jon Cones inks?
You might want to check that you have the correct inks and you 
haven't doubled up on one of them. 
If you print a nozzle check, do all the inks show up as the correct 
tones? 
Have you installed the profile to the correct location? 
Last but not least, are you following the recommended PS color 
settings?
I am sure that one of the above must be abnormal. Let me know which 
one...

Sierra Gold
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Eades" 
<jeades1@s...> wrote:
> I print a 21 step grayscale according to the instructions with 
> PiezoBW ICC manual and the middle section is the same shade from 
40% 
> to 60%. No matter how I adjust it, the same results happen. This is 
> being printed from the Piezotone warm neutral cartridges with 
Museum 
> Black. Has anyone else had this same problem. I just finished 
> printing an image from the Library of Congress thinking it may be 
> something wrong with my images; and I get the same result.So it 
isn't 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> just a grayscale that printw too light in the midsection, it's 
> anything I print.
> 
> 
> Your frustrated friend in photography,
> 
> Johnny Eades

Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by cschaible94111

Johnny:

I'm having the same experience, more or less, although I don't print 
grayscale wedges very often.  In "actual" photographic images, the 
problem is apparent as posterization in the midtones; that is, say, 
skin tones or clouds that should be distinct, with considerable 
detail, print as a single tone without that detail.  (I'm using the 
selenium ink on a 1280 with PhotoRag.)  I've given up on the ICC 
system as a result, and gone back to the plugin.

Chuck


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Eades" 
<jeades1@s...> wrote:
> I print a 21 step grayscale according to the instructions with 
> PiezoBW ICC manual and the middle section is the same shade from 
40% 
> to 60%. No matter how I adjust it, the same results happen. This is 
> being printed from the Piezotone warm neutral cartridges with 
Museum 
> Black. Has anyone else had this same problem. I just finished 
> printing an image from the Library of Congress thinking it may be 
> something wrong with my images; and I get the same result.So it 
isn't 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> just a grayscale that printw too light in the midsection, it's 
> anything I print.
> 
> 
> Your frustrated friend in photography,
> 
> Johnny Eades

Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by Tyler Boley

Depending on printer model, the inksets are different for the plugin
vrs the icc profiles. If the plugin is working for you, but not the
profiles, having the correct inkset would be the first thing to look at.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "cschaible94111"
<cschaible@c...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Johnny:
> 
> I'm having the same experience, more or less, although I don't print 
> grayscale wedges very often.  In "actual" photographic images, the 
> problem is apparent as posterization in the midtones; that is, say, 
> skin tones or clouds that should be distinct, with considerable 
> detail, print as a single tone without that detail.  (I'm using the 
> selenium ink on a 1280 with PhotoRag.)  I've given up on the ICC 
> system as a result, and gone back to the plugin.
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Eades" 
> <jeades1@s...> wrote:
> > I print a 21 step grayscale according to the instructions with 
> > PiezoBW ICC manual and the middle section is the same shade from 
> 40% 
> > to 60%. No matter how I adjust it, the same results happen. This is 
> > being printed from the Piezotone warm neutral cartridges with 
> Museum 
> > Black. Has anyone else had this same problem. I just finished 
> > printing an image from the Library of Congress thinking it may be 
> > something wrong with my images; and I get the same result.So it 
> isn't 
> > just a grayscale that printw too light in the midsection, it's 
> > anything I print.
> > 
> > 
> > Your frustrated friend in photography,
> > 
> > Johnny Eades

Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by Johnny Eades

To do a short recap of my problem, I have the Piexotone inkset from 
inkjetmall and have the ICC profiles to use with them. This is their 
inkset designed specifically for use with the ICC version of PiezoBW. 
All nozzles are firing and the grayscale on the screen looks perfect 
with separation between each 5% area. Jon recommends setting the 
monitor and photoshop at Gamma 1.8, I did that also. I defined the 
black point and the white point of the monitor using a utility called 
WYZIWYG which allows more manual calibration than Adobe Gamms. Jon 
recommends using Photo quality ink jet paper settings for Photoshop 
printing but using the correct paper profile for proofing.When 
everything looks just right, then I print using the ICC profiles 
provided for Epson Matte Heavyweight paper. The result is a grayscale 
with the middle third the same tone as the middle 50% tone. The tones 
above and below it are the same tone as the 50% tone. Has anyone had 
this same problem and solved it, and if so will you please tell me 
how to do it? Today I'm back to Black ONly printing because that 
works perfectly. I wanted to compare it to the PIEZO ICC profile 
method before making any change for the better. so far I haven't 
found anything better for me than BO, but I'm still searching for the 
HOLY GRAIL of BW printing.

Still your frustrated friend in Photography,

Johnny Eades







--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "flyfishingusa2002" 
<tflyfish@c...> wrote:
> I'm assuming that you are using Jon Cones inks?
> You might want to check that you have the correct inks and you 
> haven't doubled up on one of them. 
> If you print a nozzle check, do all the inks show up as the correct 
> tones? 
> Have you installed the profile to the correct location? 
> Last but not least, are you following the recommended PS color 
> settings?
> I am sure that one of the above must be abnormal. Let me know which 
> one...
> 
> Sierra Gold
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Eades" 
> <jeades1@s...> wrote:
> > I print a 21 step grayscale according to the instructions with 
> > PiezoBW ICC manual and the middle section is the same shade from 
> 40% 
> > to 60%. No matter how I adjust it, the same results happen. This 
is 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > being printed from the Piezotone warm neutral cartridges with 
> Museum 
> > Black. Has anyone else had this same problem. I just finished 
> > printing an image from the Library of Congress thinking it may be 
> > something wrong with my images; and I get the same result.So it 
> isn't 
> > just a grayscale that printw too light in the midsection, it's 
> > anything I print.
> > 
> > 
> > Your frustrated friend in photography,
> > 
> > Johnny Eades

Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by Johnny Eades

I don't use the plugin version of PiezoBW, but I am trying to work 
with the PirzoBW ICC version. I've recapped the conditions in an 
earlier nessage.

Still need help,

Johnny Eades




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" 
<tyler@t...> wrote:
> Depending on printer model, the inksets are different for the plugin
> vrs the icc profiles. If the plugin is working for you, but not the
> profiles, having the correct inkset would be the first thing to 
look at.
> Tyler
> 
> --- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "cschaible94111"
> <cschaible@c...> wrote:
> > Johnny:
> > 
> > I'm having the same experience, more or less, although I don't 
print 
> > grayscale wedges very often.  In "actual" photographic images, 
the 
> > problem is apparent as posterization in the midtones; that is, 
say, 
> > skin tones or clouds that should be distinct, with considerable 
> > detail, print as a single tone without that detail.  (I'm using 
the 
> > selenium ink on a 1280 with PhotoRag.)  I've given up on the ICC 
> > system as a result, and gone back to the plugin.
> > 
> > Chuck
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny 
Eades" 
> > <jeades1@s...> wrote:
> > > I print a 21 step grayscale according to the instructions with 
> > > PiezoBW ICC manual and the middle section is the same shade 
from 
> > 40% 
> > > to 60%. No matter how I adjust it, the same results happen. 
This is 
> > > being printed from the Piezotone warm neutral cartridges with 
> > Museum 
> > > Black. Has anyone else had this same problem. I just finished 
> > > printing an image from the Library of Congress thinking it may 
be 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > something wrong with my images; and I get the same result.So it 
> > isn't 
> > > just a grayscale that printw too light in the midsection, it's 
> > > anything I print.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Your frustrated friend in photography,
> > > 
> > > Johnny Eades

Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by Roy Harrington

Johnny,

It sure sounds like you are doing the right thing, but your symptoms 
really point to your having the wrong inks in the slots.  The nozzle
check is the easiest way to see each ink individually.  In the Epson
info you should see a diagram of the nozzle check that shows which
ink is in each nozzle pattern.   Then look at the nozzle pattern from
the piezo cartridge.  The Light Cyan pattern should have the same
ink as the Magenta pattern NOT the same as Cyan.  Likewise the
Light Magenta should match Yellow NOT Magenta.  Try this and
let us know what inks are where -- maybe they had a bad batch of
inks.

Roy


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Eades" 
<jeades1@s...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> To do a short recap of my problem, I have the Piexotone inkset from 
> inkjetmall and have the ICC profiles to use with them. This is their 
> inkset designed specifically for use with the ICC version of PiezoBW. 
> All nozzles are firing and the grayscale on the screen looks perfect 
> with separation between each 5% area. Jon recommends setting the 
> monitor and photoshop at Gamma 1.8, I did that also. I defined the 
> black point and the white point of the monitor using a utility called 
> WYZIWYG which allows more manual calibration than Adobe Gamms. Jon 
> recommends using Photo quality ink jet paper settings for Photoshop 
> printing but using the correct paper profile for proofing.When 
> everything looks just right, then I print using the ICC profiles 
> provided for Epson Matte Heavyweight paper. The result is a grayscale 
> with the middle third the same tone as the middle 50% tone. The tones 
> above and below it are the same tone as the 50% tone. Has anyone had 
> this same problem and solved it, and if so will you please tell me 
> how to do it? Today I'm back to Black ONly printing because that 
> works perfectly. I wanted to compare it to the PIEZO ICC profile 
> method before making any change for the better. so far I haven't 
> found anything better for me than BO, but I'm still searching for the 
> HOLY GRAIL of BW printing.
> 
> Still your frustrated friend in Photography,
> 
> Johnny Eades
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In 
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "flyfishingusa2002" 
> <tflyfish@c...> wrote:
> > I'm assuming that you are using Jon Cones inks?
> > You might want to check that you have the correct inks and you 
> > haven't doubled up on one of them. 
> > If you print a nozzle check, do all the inks show up as the correct 
> > tones? 
> > Have you installed the profile to the correct location? 
> > Last but not least, are you following the recommended PS color 
> > settings?
> > I am sure that one of the above must be abnormal. Let me know which 
> > one...
> > 
> > Sierra Gold
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Eades" 
> > <jeades1@s...> wrote:
> > > I print a 21 step grayscale according to the instructions with 
> > > PiezoBW ICC manual and the middle section is the same shade from 
> > 40% 
> > > to 60%. No matter how I adjust it, the same results happen. This 
> is 
> > > being printed from the Piezotone warm neutral cartridges with 
> > Museum 
> > > Black. Has anyone else had this same problem. I just finished 
> > > printing an image from the Library of Congress thinking it may be 
> > > something wrong with my images; and I get the same result.So it 
> > isn't 
> > > just a grayscale that printw too light in the midsection, it's 
> > > anything I print.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Your frustrated friend in photography,
> > > 
> > > Johnny Eades

RE: [Digital BW] Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by Richard

-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Johnny Eades [mailto:jeades1@...] 
Sent: 02 March 2004 19:07
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

To do a short recap of my problem, I have the Piexotone inkset from 
inkjetmall and have the ICC profiles to use with them. This is their 
inkset designed specifically for use with the ICC version of PiezoBW. 
All nozzles are firing and the grayscale on the screen looks perfect 
with separation between each 5% area. Jon recommends setting the 
monitor and photoshop at Gamma 1.8, I did that also. I defined the 
black point and the white point of the monitor using a utility called 
WYZIWYG which allows more manual calibration than Adobe Gamms. Jon 
recommends using Photo quality ink jet paper settings for Photoshop 
printing but using the correct paper profile for proofing.When 
everything looks just right, then I print using the ICC profiles 
provided for Epson Matte Heavyweight paper. The result is a grayscale 
with the middle third the same tone as the middle 50% tone. The tones 
above and below it are the same tone as the 50% tone. Has anyone had 
this same problem and solved it, and if so will you please tell me 
how to do it? Today I'm back to Black ONly printing because that 
works perfectly. I wanted to compare it to the PIEZO ICC profile 
method before making any change for the better. so far I haven't 
found anything better for me than BO, but I'm still searching for the 
HOLY GRAIL of BW printing.


Change you inks and make sure they are the ICC sequence.

Richard


---
[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility 
to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
currently using to read this email. ]

Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by smthopr2000

I had a similar problem when I used the plug-in. Very frustrating.

I have switched to using Quadtone RIP and this has fixed the problem. And I can 
make and adjust my own curves (through trial and error). Quadtone RIP works with 
mac system X only (and Linux?).

I would be gettin pretty angry with Inkjet Mall if they aren't helping you to fix the 
problem. They should be.

It is possible that you have a decfective cartridge with the same ink in two positions. 
Does Inkjetmall have a test file that you can print to determine that?

-bruce


> > Sierra Gold
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Eades" 
> > <jeades1@s...> wrote:
> > > I print a 21 step grayscale according to the instructions with 
> > > PiezoBW ICC manual and the middle section is the same shade from 
> > 40% 
> > > to 60%. No matter how I adjust it, the same results happen. This 
> is 
> > > being printed from the Piezotone warm neutral cartridges with 
> > Museum 
> > > Black. Has anyone else had this same problem. > > > Your frustrated friend in 
photography,
> > > 
> > > Johnny Eades

Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by Joe

Jonny I bought the cd with the ICC profiles for the Piezotone system 
also and the recommended inks.  I simply could never get it to work 
properly, no matter what I did the prints looked awful.  I was ready 
to give up when I decided to try the new MIS UT2 inkset.  GREAT 
results immediatly and consistantly!  I am now using the Cone CD as 
a coaster.

Joe Perrone


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Eades" 
<jeades1@s...> wrote:
> 
> I don't use the plugin version of PiezoBW, but I am trying to work 
> with the PirzoBW ICC version. I've recapped the conditions in an 
> earlier nessage.
> 
> Still need help,
> 
> Johnny Eades
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" 
> <tyler@t...> wrote:
> > Depending on printer model, the inksets are different for the 
plugin
> > vrs the icc profiles. If the plugin is working for you, but not 
the
> > profiles, having the correct inkset would be the first thing to 
> look at.
> > Tyler
> > 
> > --- In 
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "cschaible94111"
> > <cschaible@c...> wrote:
> > > Johnny:
> > > 
> > > I'm having the same experience, more or less, although I don't 
> print 
> > > grayscale wedges very often.  In "actual" photographic images, 
> the 
> > > problem is apparent as posterization in the midtones; that is, 
> say, 
> > > skin tones or clouds that should be distinct, with 
considerable 
> > > detail, print as a single tone without that detail.  (I'm 
using 
> the 
> > > selenium ink on a 1280 with PhotoRag.)  I've given up on the 
ICC 
> > > system as a result, and gone back to the plugin.
> > > 
> > > Chuck
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny 
> Eades" 
> > > <jeades1@s...> wrote:
> > > > I print a 21 step grayscale according to the instructions 
with 
> > > > PiezoBW ICC manual and the middle section is the same shade 
> from 
> > > 40% 
> > > > to 60%. No matter how I adjust it, the same results happen. 
> This is 
> > > > being printed from the Piezotone warm neutral cartridges 
with 
> > > Museum 
> > > > Black. Has anyone else had this same problem. I just 
finished 
> > > > printing an image from the Library of Congress thinking it 
may 
> be 
> > > > something wrong with my images; and I get the same result.So 
it 
> > > isn't 
> > > > just a grayscale that printw too light in the midsection, 
it's 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > > anything I print.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Your frustrated friend in photography,
> > > > 
> > > > Johnny Eades

Re: [Digital BW] Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by hogarth

The problem, I'm betting, is printer-to-printer variation. Some printers
are going to do better than others for a fixed ICC curve that only truly
matches the printer that Cone profiled. The problem is that there is no
decent way to linearize the individual printers with his system.

To fix this, Cone is going to have to release a number of ICC profiles
for the same printer model and create a procedure that lets the user
pick the best profile for her individual printer. Sounds like a
nightmare in the making to me.

It's the only thing I can think of that explains the problems that Cone
is having getting the ICC profiles to work with 1280s, and 1160s. I am
surely glad that I went the StudioPrint route and avoided all this mess.
Piezotones with StudioPrint and an Epson 7600 are just amazingly good.


On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 15:45, smthopr2000 wrote:

> I had a similar problem when I used the plug-in. Very frustrating.
> 
> I have switched to using Quadtone RIP and this has fixed the problem. And I can 
> make and adjust my own curves (through trial and error). Quadtone RIP works with 
> mac system X only (and Linux?).
> 
> I would be gettin pretty angry with Inkjet Mall if they aren't helping you to fix the 
> problem. They should be.
> 
> It is possible that you have a decfective cartridge with the same ink in two positions. 
> Does Inkjetmall have a test file that you can print to determine that?
> 
> -bruce
> 
> 
> > > Sierra Gold
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Eades" 
> > > <jeades1@s...> wrote:
> > > > I print a 21 step grayscale according to the instructions with 
> > > > PiezoBW ICC manual and the middle section is the same shade from 
> > > 40% 
> > > > to 60%. No matter how I adjust it, the same results happen. This 
> > is 
> > > > being printed from the Piezotone warm neutral cartridges with 
> > > Museum 
> > > > Black. Has anyone else had this same problem. > > > Your frustrated friend in 
> photography,
> > > > 
> > > > Johnny Eades


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-02 by Johnny Eades

Hello fellow photographers,

This note comes on a happier note than the other I posted. I found a 
solution to the middle tone crisis I found myself in. Instead of 
assigning the MODE of Gray Gamma 1.8, I used 20% dot gain. I did use 
the proof of Epson Heavyweight matte (piezo's ICC profile), and 
making the print options I chose custom and assigned the paper as 
Epson heavyweight matte where Piezo ICC had chosen Ink jet photo 
quality paper. I also gave it the print space the same as the proof 
profile of Piezo's ICC.I can't explain why it works, but the image 
looks good. This time I used an image rather than the grayscale. The 
image has a full range and I can relate to that better. I just went 
back and printed the same image using PiezoBW ICC settings and got 
different results, with the middle tones being alike thus making the 
image look posterized in those areas containing the middle tones. I 
can't explain it either!!! The only drawback now is that I've used 
upfrom 33% to 56% of my inkset and don't feel I can justify buying 
more of this ink, so I guess it's back to BO till I can save up some 
money for the Piexo inks or maybe MIS will make some. I sent them a 
note asking that and they said they were in the works but no timeline 
for release yet. Their inks are more in line with my budges of $0.00 
than Piezo of $84.00 for the two carts for my printer. Just wanted to 
touch base and let you all know that some procedures just aren't 
carved in stone and a lot of ezperimentation may re needed to get 
passable results. All I can say is I sure am glad I don't do this for 
a living. I'd starve to death before I let one print go out the door. 
Maybe I'm my own worst critic.

Your less frustrated friend in Photography.

Johnny Eades



-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, hogarth 
<hogarth@s...> wrote:
> The problem, I'm betting, is printer-to-printer variation. Some 
printers
> are going to do better than others for a fixed ICC curve that only 
truly
> matches the printer that Cone profiled. The problem is that there 
is no
> decent way to linearize the individual printers with his system.
> 
> To fix this, Cone is going to have to release a number of ICC 
profiles
> for the same printer model and create a procedure that lets the user
> pick the best profile for her individual printer. Sounds like a
> nightmare in the making to me.
> 
> It's the only thing I can think of that explains the problems that 
Cone
> is having getting the ICC profiles to work with 1280s, and 1160s. I 
am
> surely glad that I went the StudioPrint route and avoided all this 
mess.
> Piezotones with StudioPrint and an Epson 7600 are just amazingly 
good.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 15:45, smthopr2000 wrote:
> 
> > I had a similar problem when I used the plug-in. Very frustrating.
> > 
> > I have switched to using Quadtone RIP and this has fixed the 
problem. And I can 
> > make and adjust my own curves (through trial and error). Quadtone 
RIP works with 
> > mac system X only (and Linux?).
> > 
> > I would be gettin pretty angry with Inkjet Mall if they aren't 
helping you to fix the 
> > problem. They should be.
> > 
> > It is possible that you have a decfective cartridge with the same 
ink in two positions. 
> > Does Inkjetmall have a test file that you can print to determine 
that?
> > 
> > -bruce
> > 
> > 
> > > > Sierra Gold
> > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny 
Eades" 
> > > > <jeades1@s...> wrote:
> > > > > I print a 21 step grayscale according to the instructions 
with 
> > > > > PiezoBW ICC manual and the middle section is the same shade 
from 
> > > > 40% 
> > > > > to 60%. No matter how I adjust it, the same results happen. 
This 
> > > is 
> > > > > being printed from the Piezotone warm neutral cartridges 
with 
> > > > Museum 
> > > > > Black. Has anyone else had this same problem. > > > Your 
frustrated friend in 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > photography,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Johnny Eades
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-03 by D. Hill

Johnny,

It is too bad that your ICC piezo system requires
workarounds instead of working correctly out of the
box.  One only has to peruse the piezography 3000 list
to see the problems inherent in the current system.

I can't remember if you are using a 1280 - but if you
are in addition to using a Mac running OSX Panther;
the ICC Piezography isn't a strong choice right now -
plus the fact that you've lost so much trying to get
it right.

I considered purchasing the ICC system, as I found the
R9 driver to be superb.  However, as I am running
panther with a 1280 - it really needs to work
correctly without workarounds when purchased to
warrant the high cost of ownership.

In the interim, I have found that the 1280 and UT2 is
superior to any other current B&W solution.  Comparing
the dither of QTR against the R9/Piezography driver, I
found QTR to be superior in all respects as far as
smooth tones and "dotlessness". 

If you are running a mac and need your system to work,
consider using QTR and UT2.  Just as simple as BO, and
the results are stunning.  The flexibility of the
tones as well as the superior dither amount to an
amazing solution.

Don

--- Johnny Eades <jeades1@...> wrote:
> Hello fellow photographers,
> 
> This note comes on a happier note than the other I
> posted. I found a 
> solution to the middle tone crisis I found myself
> in. Instead of 
> assigning the MODE of Gray Gamma 1.8, I used 20% dot
> gain. I did use 
> the proof of Epson Heavyweight matte (piezo's ICC
> profile), and 
> making the print options I chose custom and assigned
> the paper as 
> Epson heavyweight matte where Piezo ICC had chosen
> Ink jet photo 
> quality paper. I also gave it the print space the
> same as the proof 
> profile of Piezo's ICC.I can't explain why it works,
> but the image 
> looks good. This time I used an image rather than
> the grayscale. The 
> image has a full range and I can relate to that
> better. I just went 
> back and printed the same image using PiezoBW ICC
> settings and got 
> different results, with the middle tones being alike
> thus making the 
> image look posterized in those areas containing the
> middle tones. I 
> can't explain it either!!! The only drawback now is
> that I've used 
> upfrom 33% to 56% of my inkset and don't feel I can
> justify buying 
> more of this ink, so I guess it's back to BO till I
> can save up some 
> money for the Piexo inks or maybe MIS will make
> some. I sent them a 
> note asking that and they said they were in the
> works but no timeline 
> for release yet. Their inks are more in line with my
> budges of $0.00 
> than Piezo of $84.00 for the two carts for my
> printer. Just wanted to 
> touch base and let you all know that some procedures
> just aren't 
> carved in stone and a lot of ezperimentation may re
> needed to get 
> passable results. All I can say is I sure am glad I
> don't do this for 
> a living. I'd starve to death before I let one print
> go out the door. 
> Maybe I'm my own worst critic.
> 
> Your less frustrated friend in Photography.
> 
> Johnny Eades


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you\ufffdre looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com

[Digital BW] Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-03 by Johnny Eades

Hello Don,

I'm using the 1280 too but use WinXP and Photoshop CS. I have played 
for a couple of years with Linux, but always seem to come back to XP 
because most of the programs I use daily are there. The workaround 
turned out to be very good and I wish I could afford the Piezotone 
inks. I had the plugin for PiezoBW and used MIS full Spectrum 
i\Neutral inks with it and it looked pretty good to. I guess I'm jus 
an experimenter at heart, and I wish my pockets were deep enough to 
pursue each one further. I use Black Only printing with MIS Eboni ink 
and can make it jump through hoops. I now can get true WYSIWYG prints 
with it. I'm very critical of the lower values in my images. I want 
them to have pregnant shadows like Ansel Adams' images. I can wish 
can't I? Don't we all? Well when my ink runs out I may try the UT2 
and Paul's curves. 

Your friend in Photography,

Johnny Eades



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "D. Hill" 
<hill14701@y...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Johnny,
> 
> It is too bad that your ICC piezo system requires
> workarounds instead of working correctly out of the
> box.  One only has to peruse the piezography 3000 list
> to see the problems inherent in the current system.
> 
> I can't remember if you are using a 1280 - but if you
> are in addition to using a Mac running OSX Panther;
> the ICC Piezography isn't a strong choice right now -
> plus the fact that you've lost so much trying to get
> it right.
> 
> I considered purchasing the ICC system, as I found the
> R9 driver to be superb.  However, as I am running
> panther with a 1280 - it really needs to work
> correctly without workarounds when purchased to
> warrant the high cost of ownership.
> 
> In the interim, I have found that the 1280 and UT2 is
> superior to any other current B&W solution.  Comparing
> the dither of QTR against the R9/Piezography driver, I
> found QTR to be superior in all respects as far as
> smooth tones and "dotlessness". 
> 
> If you are running a mac and need your system to work,
> consider using QTR and UT2.  Just as simple as BO, and
> the results are stunning.  The flexibility of the
> tones as well as the superior dither amount to an
> amazing solution.
> 
> Don
> 
> --- Johnny Eades <jeades1@s...> wrote:
> > Hello fellow photographers,
> > 
> > This note comes on a happier note than the other I
> > posted. I found a 
> > solution to the middle tone crisis I found myself
> > in. Instead of 
> > assigning the MODE of Gray Gamma 1.8, I used 20% dot
> > gain. I did use 
> > the proof of Epson Heavyweight matte (piezo's ICC
> > profile), and 
> > making the print options I chose custom and assigned
> > the paper as 
> > Epson heavyweight matte where Piezo ICC had chosen
> > Ink jet photo 
> > quality paper. I also gave it the print space the
> > same as the proof 
> > profile of Piezo's ICC.I can't explain why it works,
> > but the image 
> > looks good. This time I used an image rather than
> > the grayscale. The 
> > image has a full range and I can relate to that
> > better. I just went 
> > back and printed the same image using PiezoBW ICC
> > settings and got 
> > different results, with the middle tones being alike
> > thus making the 
> > image look posterized in those areas containing the
> > middle tones. I 
> > can't explain it either!!! The only drawback now is
> > that I've used 
> > upfrom 33% to 56% of my inkset and don't feel I can
> > justify buying 
> > more of this ink, so I guess it's back to BO till I
> > can save up some 
> > money for the Piexo inks or maybe MIS will make
> > some. I sent them a 
> > note asking that and they said they were in the
> > works but no timeline 
> > for release yet. Their inks are more in line with my
> > budges of $0.00 
> > than Piezo of $84.00 for the two carts for my
> > printer. Just wanted to 
> > touch base and let you all know that some procedures
> > just aren't 
> > carved in stone and a lot of ezperimentation may re
> > needed to get 
> > passable results. All I can say is I sure am glad I
> > don't do this for 
> > a living. I'd starve to death before I let one print
> > go out the door. 
> > Maybe I'm my own worst critic.
> > 
> > Your less frustrated friend in Photography.
> > 
> > Johnny Eades
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster
> http://search.yahoo.com

[Digital BW] Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-03 by cschaible94111

Do you have any basis to compare Studio Print with ImagePrint?  I 
realize I am going to have to get one or the other, and am just 
waiting for the 4000 to become available to do so.  However, I could 
use some help choosing between them.  Thanks.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, hogarth 
<hogarth@s...> wrote:
> The problem, I'm betting, is printer-to-printer variation. Some 
printers
> are going to do better than others for a fixed ICC curve that only 
truly
> matches the printer that Cone profiled. The problem is that there 
is no
> decent way to linearize the individual printers with his system.
> 
> To fix this, Cone is going to have to release a number of ICC 
profiles
> for the same printer model and create a procedure that lets the user
> pick the best profile for her individual printer. Sounds like a
> nightmare in the making to me.
> 
> It's the only thing I can think of that explains the problems that 
Cone
> is having getting the ICC profiles to work with 1280s, and 1160s. I 
am
> surely glad that I went the StudioPrint route and avoided all this 
mess.
> Piezotones with StudioPrint and an Epson 7600 are just amazingly 
good.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 15:45, smthopr2000 wrote:
> 
> > I had a similar problem when I used the plug-in. Very frustrating.
> > 
> > I have switched to using Quadtone RIP and this has fixed the 
problem. And I can 
> > make and adjust my own curves (through trial and error). Quadtone 
RIP works with 
> > mac system X only (and Linux?).
> > 
> > I would be gettin pretty angry with Inkjet Mall if they aren't 
helping you to fix the 
> > problem. They should be.
> > 
> > It is possible that you have a decfective cartridge with the same 
ink in two positions. 
> > Does Inkjetmall have a test file that you can print to determine 
that?
> > 
> > -bruce
> > 
> > 
> > > > Sierra Gold
> > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny 
Eades" 
> > > > <jeades1@s...> wrote:
> > > > > I print a 21 step grayscale according to the instructions 
with 
> > > > > PiezoBW ICC manual and the middle section is the same shade 
from 
> > > > 40% 
> > > > > to 60%. No matter how I adjust it, the same results happen. 
This 
> > > is 
> > > > > being printed from the Piezotone warm neutral cartridges 
with 
> > > > Museum 
> > > > > Black. Has anyone else had this same problem. > > > Your 
frustrated friend in 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > photography,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Johnny Eades
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-03 by D. Hill

Johnny and all,

UT2 and Roark's curves are quite good.  If you follow
Paul's directions for the curves, you will be very
happy with the results.

The inkset alone (printed without curves or sliders)
is simply beautiful as it prints neutral but slightly
warm.  It complements BO/Eboni prints quite nicely. 
It truly is an "easy" solution.

I encourage everyone with a 1280 to give UT2 a try due
to it's flexibility.  You can achieve wonderful
results without effort, and for simple toning you can
adjust the sliders when printing.  This is a great
benefit for those who are accustomed to toning and
using extended darkroom controls for print color.

Compare this with a full spectrum or a quad based
inkset.  You are stuck with one printing tone unless
you change papers.  Even then the options were a bit
small.

For greater toning options or printing with carbon
inks only, you can utilize Paul's curves with Mac and
PC platforms; or Quadtone RIP if you are using a Mac.

I have had little problems with UT2.  Paul has been
extremely helpful whenever I have needed a question
answered - even though it is not his job to help us. 
Roy's QTR is one of the best printing solutions I have
ever used (and I used the original Piezo driver) and
he is very helpful to everyone on this list as well
with printing advise.  

Considering the extended printing options available
with UltraTone2, you really don't need anything else.

Don




--- Johnny Eades <jeades1@...> wrote:
> 
> Hello Don,
> 
> I'm using the 1280 too but use WinXP and Photoshop
> CS. I have played 
> for a couple of years with Linux, but always seem to
> come back to XP 
> because most of the programs I use daily are there.
> The workaround 
> turned out to be very good and I wish I could afford
> the Piezotone 
> inks. I had the plugin for PiezoBW and used MIS full
> Spectrum 
> i\Neutral inks with it and it looked pretty good to.
> I guess I'm jus 
> an experimenter at heart, and I wish my pockets were
> deep enough to 
> pursue each one further. I use Black Only printing
> with MIS Eboni ink 
> and can make it jump through hoops. I now can get
> true WYSIWYG prints 
> with it. I'm very critical of the lower values in my
> images. I want 
> them to have pregnant shadows like Ansel Adams'
> images. I can wish 
> can't I? Don't we all? Well when my ink runs out I
> may try the UT2 
> and Paul's curves. 
> 
> Your friend in Photography,
> 
> Johnny Eades
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> "D. Hill" 
> <hill14701@y...> wrote:
> > Johnny,
> > 
> > It is too bad that your ICC piezo system requires
> > workarounds instead of working correctly out of
> the
> > box.  One only has to peruse the piezography 3000
> list
> > to see the problems inherent in the current
> system.
> > 
> > I can't remember if you are using a 1280 - but if
> you
> > are in addition to using a Mac running OSX
> Panther;
> > the ICC Piezography isn't a strong choice right
> now -
> > plus the fact that you've lost so much trying to
> get
> > it right.
> > 
> > I considered purchasing the ICC system, as I found
> the
> > R9 driver to be superb.  However, as I am running
> > panther with a 1280 - it really needs to work
> > correctly without workarounds when purchased to
> > warrant the high cost of ownership.
> > 
> > In the interim, I have found that the 1280 and UT2
> is
> > superior to any other current B&W solution. 
> Comparing
> > the dither of QTR against the R9/Piezography
> driver, I
> > found QTR to be superior in all respects as far as
> > smooth tones and "dotlessness". 
> > 
> > If you are running a mac and need your system to
> work,
> > consider using QTR and UT2.  Just as simple as BO,
> and
> > the results are stunning.  The flexibility of the
> > tones as well as the superior dither amount to an
> > amazing solution.
> > 
> > Don
> > 
> > --- Johnny Eades <jeades1@s...> wrote:
> > > Hello fellow photographers,
> > > 
> > > This note comes on a happier note than the other
> I
> > > posted. I found a 
> > > solution to the middle tone crisis I found
> myself
> > > in. Instead of 
> > > assigning the MODE of Gray Gamma 1.8, I used 20%
> dot
> > > gain. I did use 
> > > the proof of Epson Heavyweight matte (piezo's
> ICC
> > > profile), and 
> > > making the print options I chose custom and
> assigned
> > > the paper as 
> > > Epson heavyweight matte where Piezo ICC had
> chosen
> > > Ink jet photo 
> > > quality paper. I also gave it the print space
> the
> > > same as the proof 
> > > profile of Piezo's ICC.I can't explain why it
> works,
> > > but the image 
> > > looks good. This time I used an image rather
> than
> > > the grayscale. The 
> > > image has a full range and I can relate to that
> > > better. I just went 
> > > back and printed the same image using PiezoBW
> ICC
> > > settings and got 
> > > different results, with the middle tones being
> alike
> > > thus making the 
> > > image look posterized in those areas containing
> the
> > > middle tones. I 
> > > can't explain it either!!! The only drawback now
> is
> > > that I've used 
> > > upfrom 33% to 56% of my inkset and don't feel I
> can
> > > justify buying 
> > > more of this ink, so I guess it's back to BO
> till I
> > > can save up some 
> > > money for the Piexo inks or maybe MIS will make
> > > some. I sent them a 
> > > note asking that and they said they were in the
> > > works but no timeline 
> > > for release yet. Their inks are more in line
> with my
> > > budges of $0.00 
> > > than Piezo of $84.00 for the two carts for my
> > > printer. Just wanted to 
> > > touch base and let you all know that some
> procedures
> > > just aren't 
> > > carved in stone and a lot of ezperimentation may
> re
> > > needed to get 
> > > passable results. All I can say is I sure am
> glad I
> > > don't do this for 
> > > a living. I'd starve to death before I let one
> print
> > > go out the door. 
> > > Maybe I'm my own worst critic.
> > > 
> > > Your less frustrated friend in Photography.
> > > 
> > > Johnny Eades
> > 
> > 
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for
> faster
> > http://search.yahoo.com
> 
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you\ufffdre looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: PIEZOGRAPHY bw icc GRAYSCALE

2004-03-03 by hogarth

Not really. I couldn't afford both ;-)

I started from the point of really liking the selenium Piezotones. They
have just exactly the "look" I'm after. From there, I went looking for a
way to use them with an Epson x6xx printer. 
StudioPrint is really set up for this - any fixed tone quad ink.
ImagePrint seems to me to be set up for printing B&W with the
UltraChromes, or with variable tone quad ink (think MIS). Since I liked
the fixed tone selenium Piezotones, it was easy to pick StudioPrint.
Ergosoft's more liberal support and license policies didn't hurt either.

But, clearly in this quickly changing market segment, YMMV.



On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 19:55, cschaible94111 wrote:

> Do you have any basis to compare Studio Print with ImagePrint?  I 
> realize I am going to have to get one or the other, and am just 
> waiting for the 4000 to become available to do so.  However, I could 
> use some help choosing between them.  Thanks.
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, hogarth 
> <hogarth@s...> wrote:
> > The problem, I'm betting, is printer-to-printer variation. Some 
> printers
> > are going to do better than others for a fixed ICC curve that only 
> truly
> > matches the printer that Cone profiled. The problem is that there 
> is no
> > decent way to linearize the individual printers with his system.
> > 
> > To fix this, Cone is going to have to release a number of ICC 
> profiles
> > for the same printer model and create a procedure that lets the user
> > pick the best profile for her individual printer. Sounds like a
> > nightmare in the making to me.
> > 
> > It's the only thing I can think of that explains the problems that 
> Cone
> > is having getting the ICC profiles to work with 1280s, and 1160s. I 
> am
> > surely glad that I went the StudioPrint route and avoided all this 
> mess.
> > Piezotones with StudioPrint and an Epson 7600 are just amazingly 
> good.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.