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Matte vs Glossy Paper and the Holy Grail

Matte vs Glossy Paper and the Holy Grail

2004-04-02 by Mitch Alland

First, the holy grail for many people is the look of air-dried glossy 
paper, as described by Anselm Adams in _The_Print_ (p. 45):

> Maximum image brilliance is obtained on a smooth, glossy-surfaced 
> paper, which can have a reflectance range of up to 1: 100 and 
> higher...The matte papers have much lower brilliance, with a 
> reflection-density range of about 1:25...I use glossy papers 
> comparable to Kodak's "F"- surface. Unferrotyped, these papers give a 
> smooth semi-gloss finish with long tonal range.

Consider color prints: when I first got my Epson 7600 it came with 
Photo Black ink and I printed color on Epson Semi-Matte but then 
switched to Matte Black and printed on Epson Enhanced Matte and 
Hahnemuehle Photo Rag. However, when I needed to make extra color 
prints for an exhibition, it became very clear that prints with Matte 
Black ink on the latter two papers were nowhere near as "brilliant" as 
using the Photo Black/Semi-Matte combination. Anyone who looked at the 
two sets of prints  preferred the prints made with Photo Black on 
Semi-Matte.; and I had to switch back to Photo Black to complete the 
prints for my exhibition. (However, I do understand that some people 
who are looking for a certain "look" are happy with or prefer Matte 
Black and matte paper.)

For B&W prints, I also found more brilliance from the Photo 
Black/Semi-Matte than from Matte Black and matte paper, bearing out 
Anselm Adams observation above. But the trouble is that prints on 
Semi-Matte have some bronzing, although, paradoxically, I find the 
bronzing less objectionable on large (16x24") than small (A4) prints. 
Some people have suggested that Epson Pro Glossy paper has less 
bronzing, but for me the problem is that the largest roll that this 
paper  is available in is 17", not 24". I have also heard that Oriental 
FB Glossy paper is less subject to bronzing than Semi-Matte but, apart 
from its cost, Paul Roark reports that this paper has substantially 
lower Dmax than EEM, and has a very fragile surface too boot. So for 
B&W, the bronzing problem remains, although it can be solved by 
laminating the print or by face-mounting on plexiglass which I have 
found is the most spectacular way to display  a large print -- and 
that's as close to the holy grail that I can get.

I'm sure that a lot of people will object that they prefer B&W prints 
on matte paper, with their long tonal range in the mid-tones which is 
similar to a platinum print. But that isn't my preference, as I am 
after deep, rich black and brilliance.

--Mitch/Potomac, MD

Re: Matte vs Glossy Paper and the Holy Grail

2004-04-02 by Carl Schofield

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mitch Alland <malland@x> 
wrote:

snip..
> For B&W prints, I also found more brilliance from the Photo 
> Black/Semi-Matte than from Matte Black and matte paper, bearing out 
> Anselm Adams observation above. But the trouble is that prints on 
> Semi-Matte have some bronzing, although, paradoxically, I find the 
> bronzing less objectionable on large (16x24") than small (A4) prints. 
> Some people have suggested that Epson Pro Glossy paper has less 
> bronzing, but for me the problem is that the largest roll that this 
> paper  is available in is 17", not 24". I have also heard that Oriental 
> FB Glossy paper is less subject to bronzing than Semi-Matte but, apart 
> from its cost, Paul Roark reports that this paper has substantially 
> lower Dmax than EEM, and has a very fragile surface too boot. So for 
> B&W, the bronzing problem remains, although it can be solved by 
> laminating the print or by face-mounting on plexiglass which I have 
> found is the most spectacular way to display  a large print -- and 
> that's as close to the holy grail that I can get.

I was able to completely eliminate bronzing on Ilford Smooth Pearl, printed on a 2200 
with the MIS UT inks, with a single thin coating of Renaissance wax.  Quick and easy 
to apply (at least for prints up to 12x18 inches) and it leaves a very smooth, beautiful 
surface.  The wax does not seem to work as well on smoother RC surfaces, so I don't 
know if it would perform as well on semimatte.

Carl

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Matte vs Glossy Paper and the Holy Grail

2004-04-03 by Jeff Magidson

Carl;

Are you using Eboni or Photo Black ink on your Ilford Smooth prints?

-Jeff
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Friday, April 2, 2004, at 02:47 PM, Carl Schofield wrote:
> I was able to completely eliminate bronzing on Ilford Smooth Pearl, 
> printed on a 2200
> with the MIS UT inks, with a single thin coating of Renaissance wax.  
> Quick and easy
> to apply (at least for prints up to 12x18 inches) and it leaves a very 
> smooth, beautiful
> surface.  The wax does not seem to work as well on smoother RC 
> surfaces, so I don't
> know if it would perform as well on semimatte.
>
> Carl
>
>
>
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[Digital BW] Re: Matte vs Glossy Paper and the Holy Grail

2004-04-03 by Carl Schofield

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Magidson <jef.jef@v...> 
wrote:

> Carl;
> 
> Are you using Eboni or Photo Black ink on your Ilford Smooth prints?
> 
> -Jeff

I'm using the MIS PK ink (similar to the UC Photo K) with the MIS UT inks in 2200 
carts.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> 
> On Friday, April 2, 2004, at 02:47 PM, Carl Schofield wrote:
> > I was able to completely eliminate bronzing on Ilford Smooth Pearl, 
> > printed on a 2200
> > with the MIS UT inks, with a single thin coating of Renaissance wax.  
> > Quick and easy
> > to apply (at least for prints up to 12x18 inches) and it leaves a very 
> > smooth, beautiful
> > surface.  The wax does not seem to work as well on smoother RC 
> > surfaces, so I don't
> > know if it would perform as well on semimatte.
> >
> > Carl

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Matte vs Glossy Paper and the Holy Grail

2004-04-03 by Steve Kale

Carl

Was this with QTR or BO?

Regards

Steve
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Carl Schofield" <scho@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:33:52 -0000
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Matte vs Glossy Paper and the Holy Grail

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Magidson
<jef.jef@v...> 
wrote:

> Carl;
> 
> Are you using Eboni or Photo Black ink on your Ilford Smooth prints?
> 
> -Jeff

I'm using the MIS PK ink (similar to the UC Photo K) with the MIS UT inks in
2200 
carts.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Matte vs Glossy Paper and the Holy Grail

2004-04-03 by Carl Schofield

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> 
wrote:
> Carl
> 
> Was this with QTR or BO?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve

I used both QTR and IJC/OPM (new OS X versions) to make neutral, sepia, and carbon 
toned prints with the 2200 UT inks and the wax treatment worked fine with all of 
these prints on Ilford Smooth Pearl.  Epson Premium Semigloss still had some very 
slight, residual bronzing after waxing and the waxing did not work well at all on a 
high gloss surface (Oriental Graphica FB in this case).

Carl
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> From: "Carl Schofield" <scho@m...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:33:52 -0000
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Matte vs Glossy Paper and the Holy Grail
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Magidson
> <jef.jef@v...> 
> wrote:
> 
> > Carl;
> > 
> > Are you using Eboni or Photo Black ink on your Ilford Smooth prints?
> > 
> > -Jeff
> 
> I'm using the MIS PK ink (similar to the UC Photo K) with the MIS UT inks in
> 2200 
> carts.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Matte vs Glossy Paper and the Holy Grail

2004-04-05 by Jeff Magidson

Carl;

How long have you been printing with Ilford Smooth Pearl paper? I made 
some prints on that paper about a year and when I went to look at those 
prints today I was surprised to see that the edges of the paper that 
where exposed to air ( prints where in glassine sleeves ) had turned 
yellow. Have you had any problems like that?

-Jeff
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Friday, April 2, 2004, at 02:47 PM, Carl Schofield wrote:
>
> I was able to completely eliminate bronzing on Ilford Smooth Pearl, 
> printed on a 2200
> with the MIS UT inks, with a single thin coating of Renaissance wax.  
> Quick and easy
> to apply (at least for prints up to 12x18 inches) and it leaves a very 
> smooth, beautiful
> surface.  The wax does not seem to work as well on smoother RC 
> surfaces, so I don't
> know if it would perform as well on semimatte.
>
> Carl

[Digital BW] Re: Matte vs Glossy Paper and the Holy Grail

2004-04-07 by Carl Schofield

Jeff - I've been using ISP on and off for about the same period of time, but I haven't 
yet noticed any yellowing.  I realize that this paper is not archival quality, but I do like 
the appearance of the prints for display.  I think that Paul is evaluating a buffer 
applied to the backside of the paper that may alleviate this problem.

Carl
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Magidson <jef.jef@v...> 
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Carl;
> 
> How long have you been printing with Ilford Smooth Pearl paper? I made 
> some prints on that paper about a year and when I went to look at those 
> prints today I was surprised to see that the edges of the paper that 
> where exposed to air ( prints where in glassine sleeves ) had turned 
> yellow. Have you had any problems like that?
> 
> -Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, April 2, 2004, at 02:47 PM, Carl Schofield wrote:
> >
> > I was able to completely eliminate bronzing on Ilford Smooth Pearl, 
> > printed on a 2200
> > with the MIS UT inks, with a single thin coating of Renaissance wax.  
> > Quick and easy
> > to apply (at least for prints up to 12x18 inches) and it leaves a very 
> > smooth, beautiful
> > surface.  The wax does not seem to work as well on smoother RC 
> > surfaces, so I don't
> > know if it would perform as well on semimatte.
> >
> > Carl

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