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1290 UT2 issues (dots on Semigloss)

1290 UT2 issues (dots on Semigloss)

2004-05-21 by Bernie Ess

Hello, I have finally installed my new 1290 and a UT2 CFS. While on 
matte papers the results are fine and on par with the results of 
my former (but unfortunately broken) 1160 - all attempts to get a 
satisfying print on semigloss paper failed so far.

I tried the curve workflow - mostly with the neutral curves) and what 
I get is a nice print in the lighter and *very* dark shades, however 
in the darker grey zones - like shaded zones of skin - I get a 
relatively coarse black grain which looks a bit like "snake skin" - 
dont know how to describe.

I also tried BO at 2880dpi, this dot/ grain phenomenon doesn't occur 
there, however I can see the fine horizontal lines of the printhead - 
its just not fine enough. 

SO basically I am unhappy - I bought the 1290 as an upgrade to my 
broken 1160, however the 1160's results with UT1 on Semigloss were 
clearly superior. Might it be a problem of the curves? Or does UT2 
not work well with Semigloss papers? 

I hope I will get this working. 

Thanks, 

Bernie

RE: [Digital BW] 1290 UT2 issues (dots on Semigloss)

2004-05-21 by Paul Roark

Bernie,

Which paper and curve are you using?

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
_________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Bernie Ess [mailto:albatros-@...] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:33 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] 1290 UT2 issues (dots on Semigloss)

Hello, I have finally installed my new 1290 and a UT2 CFS. While on 
matte papers the results are fine and on par with the results of 
my former (but unfortunately broken) 1160 - all attempts to get a 
satisfying print on semigloss paper failed so far.

I tried the curve workflow - mostly with the neutral curves) and what 
I get is a nice print in the lighter and *very* dark shades, however 
in the darker grey zones - like shaded zones of skin - I get a 
relatively coarse black grain which looks a bit like "snake skin" - 
dont know how to describe.

I also tried BO at 2880dpi, this dot/ grain phenomenon doesn't occur 
there, however I can see the fine horizontal lines of the printhead - 
its just not fine enough. 

SO basically I am unhappy - I bought the 1290 as an upgrade to my 
broken 1160, however the 1160's results with UT1 on Semigloss were 
clearly superior. Might it be a problem of the curves? Or does UT2 
not work well with Semigloss papers? 

I hope I will get this working. 

Thanks, 

Bernie




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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Digital BW] 1290 UT2 issues (dots on Semigloss)

2004-05-21 by Bernie Ess

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Bernie,
> 
> Which paper and curve are you using?

I tried out Epson premium semi- gloss, Ilford smooth pearl and a 
german semigloss paper I have been using before with success. All 
three paper with the described "snake skin" phenomenon in the darker 
grays.
 
The curve I applied was the "UT2-IlfordSmooth-Eboni-Neutral-1.acv". 
However I have to apply a correction curve which I lay over the image 
but under your printing curve, because the 1290 prints too dark in 
the deep shadows otherwise.

Meanwhile I can add the following: With the "UT2-IlfordSmooth-Eboni-
Carbon-1.acv" this phenomenon does *not* occur, only with the neutral 
curve. 

I have now started to experiment with the slider controls of the 
driver, and without adding your curves. The first results don't seem 
too bad, so maybe there is hope.

regards, Bernie

> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> _________________________
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bernie Ess [mailto:albatros-@...] 
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:33 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] 1290 UT2 issues (dots on Semigloss)
> 
> Hello, I have finally installed my new 1290 and a UT2 CFS. While on 
> matte papers the results are fine and on par with the results of 
> my former (but unfortunately broken) 1160 - all attempts to get a 
> satisfying print on semigloss paper failed so far.
> 
> I tried the curve workflow - mostly with the neutral curves) and 
what 
> I get is a nice print in the lighter and *very* dark shades, 
however 
> in the darker grey zones - like shaded zones of skin - I get a 
> relatively coarse black grain which looks a bit like "snake skin" - 
> dont know how to describe.
> 
> I also tried BO at 2880dpi, this dot/ grain phenomenon doesn't 
occur 
> there, however I can see the fine horizontal lines of the 
printhead - 
> its just not fine enough. 
> 
> SO basically I am unhappy - I bought the 1290 as an upgrade to my 
> broken 1160, however the 1160's results with UT1 on Semigloss were 
> clearly superior. Might it be a problem of the curves? Or does UT2 
> not work well with Semigloss papers? 
> 
> I hope I will get this working. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> Bernie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED 
OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Digital BW] 1290 UT2 issues (dots on Semigloss)

2004-05-21 by Paul Roark

Bernie,

I just printed the 21-step test strip on Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl, and
I'm not sure I see what you're seeing.  (Be sure that you're using Photo
Quality Ink Jet Paper setting.)

Do you have a UT2 cart from lot D2204?  See B. Woolner's May 18 message,
below. 

I'll send you some files off list to see if the ink is loaded correctly.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

___________________


-----Original Message-----
From: bfwoolner [mailto:bfwoolner@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:02 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] UT2 EEM-neutral curve linearity

I had a similar situation and after a couple of days of dialogue with Paul
Roark and trying a variety of different things the determination was made
that the ink was improperly loaded in the cart.  MIS has sent me a new cart
but have not yet opened it since I am back using my UT 1 inks.  The lot
number on my bad UT2 cart is D2204.

Barbara
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "compdsgnr" <baillio@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:32 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] UT2 EEM-neutral curve linearity


I just started working with the UT2 inkset. I printed a 21 step wedge
on Epson matte using Paul's curves in photoshop. The light through
mid tone steps print with fairly linear gradations between steps.
However, there is a sharp discontinuity moving into the darkest steps
( 85 thru 100 %) where the black ink comes on strong. This is evident
on on the CRT after the curves adjustment as well.
I'm not sure if I messed up or this is expected.
If this is normal,what is the reasoning behind this ?

Tom
_________________________________________


-----Original Message-----
From: Bernie Ess [mailto:albatros-@...] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:18 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1290 UT2 issues (dots on Semigloss)

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Bernie,
> 
> Which paper and curve are you using?

I tried out Epson premium semi- gloss, Ilford smooth pearl and a 
german semigloss paper I have been using before with success. All 
three paper with the described "snake skin" phenomenon in the darker 
grays.
 
The curve I applied was the "UT2-IlfordSmooth-Eboni-Neutral-1.acv". 
However I have to apply a correction curve which I lay over the image 
but under your printing curve, because the 1290 prints too dark in 
the deep shadows otherwise.

Meanwhile I can add the following: With the "UT2-IlfordSmooth-Eboni-
Carbon-1.acv" this phenomenon does *not* occur, only with the neutral 
curve. 

I have now started to experiment with the slider controls of the 
driver, and without adding your curves. The first results don't seem 
too bad, so maybe there is hope.

regards, Bernie

> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> _________________________
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bernie Ess [mailto:albatros-@...] 
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:33 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] 1290 UT2 issues (dots on Semigloss)
> 
> Hello, I have finally installed my new 1290 and a UT2 CFS. While on 
> matte papers the results are fine and on par with the results of 
> my former (but unfortunately broken) 1160 - all attempts to get a 
> satisfying print on semigloss paper failed so far.
> 
> I tried the curve workflow - mostly with the neutral curves) and 
what 
> I get is a nice print in the lighter and *very* dark shades, 
however 
> in the darker grey zones - like shaded zones of skin - I get a 
> relatively coarse black grain which looks a bit like "snake skin" - 
> dont know how to describe.
> 
> I also tried BO at 2880dpi, this dot/ grain phenomenon doesn't 
occur 
> there, however I can see the fine horizontal lines of the 
printhead - 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> its just not fine enough. 
> 
> SO basically I am unhappy - I bought the 1290 as an upgrade to my 
> broken 1160, however the 1160's results with UT1 on Semigloss were 
> clearly superior. Might it be a problem of the curves? Or does UT2 
> not work well with Semigloss papers? 
> 
> I hope I will get this working. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> Bernie
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] 1290 UT2 issues (dots on Semigloss)

2004-05-21 by Bernhard Sch.

Paul,

where do I find the "lot number" of the UT2 cart? Do I have to remove the
cart off the printer?

I tried it again: With the "carbon" curve the print is much much closer to
perfect - however I still see the "printer lines".

I try to scan the prints this week-end and I will send you the scans by mail
to make clear how it is like. I dont think I haven't loaded the carts
correctly. Nozzle pattern is perfect, and I guess it is also normal that the
black cart is some mm lower than the color cart, isnt it?

regards, Bernie
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] 1290 UT2 issues (dots on Semigloss)


Bernie,

I just printed the 21-step test strip on Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl, and
I'm not sure I see what you're seeing.  (Be sure that you're using Photo
Quality Ink Jet Paper setting.)

Do you have a UT2 cart from lot D2204?  See B. Woolner's May 18 message,
below.

I'll send you some files off list to see if the ink is loaded correctly.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

___________________


-----Original Message-----
From: bfwoolner [mailto:bfwoolner@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:02 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] UT2 EEM-neutral curve linearity

I had a similar situation and after a couple of days of dialogue with Paul
Roark and trying a variety of different things the determination was made
that the ink was improperly loaded in the cart.  MIS has sent me a new cart
but have not yet opened it since I am back using my UT 1 inks.  The lot
number on my bad UT2 cart is D2204.

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