Digital BW, The Print

From the last Digest:

> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 18:07:02 -0000
> From: "gulstenek" <keving@...>
>Subject: An Ideal Greyscale Ramp?

>Is there an ideal, or optimal, greyscale ramp? .............

I think I saw somewhere some directions for building a grayscale ramp in
PSCS.  I won't be able to play with such a device with a reflection
densitometer or etc. but I think maybe I could tell something by making one
and printing it out on my 'outfit.'  Any suggestions as to how to make one?

I'm still struggling to make the transition from film to digital and my head
is so full of ZONES that I am a little bit like a fish out of water with
this new 'system.'  I need an ANCHOR point somewhere -- there seems to be so
many VARIABLES in digital photography and printing -- a whole lot of things
changing all the time.  With my old Zone VI calibrated spot meter, 4 x 5
TRI-X/HC-110, and Brilliant paper I (thought) I knew what was going on most
of the time!

If not too much for one post, I'm also a little bewildered by the reference
to DOTS in BO printing -- which by the comments I've read, seems to be a
very good methodology.  Are they REALLY discernable in a properly sized (for
the image resolution) print?  I've recently ordered a set of sample prints
from LENSWORK because they use a digitally generated negative to
'traditionally wet print' some B&W images and one of the set of three is
also a digital image.  I want to see what those prints look like.  There
were comments about DOTS on those negatives (essentially a duotone process,
I think) and I want to see that on a print.  Does anyone provide a similar
inexpensive sample print series for 100% digital processing?  I still need
to see a full digital B&W print.

The most recent discussion concerning printer recommendations has been a big
help in getting me ready for the final step -- a 'real' printer.  Thanks to
all for the information being provided on the list.  Vic Culver


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.733 / Virus Database: 487 - Release Date: 8/2/2004

Vic-


> 
> I think I saw somewhere some directions for building a grayscale ramp in
> PSCS.  I won't be able to play with such a device with a reflection
> densitometer or etc. but I think maybe I could tell something by
making one
> and printing it out on my 'outfit.'  Any suggestions as to how to
make one?

There are a couple of versions of 21 step wedges in the files section
of this group.  Look <a
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/Image%20Processing/">here</a>:

 
> If not too much for one post, I'm also a little bewildered by the
reference
> to DOTS in BO printing -- which by the comments I've read, seems to be a
> very good methodology.  Are they REALLY discernable in a properly
sized (for
> the image resolution) print?  

Some people can see them some not and others are not bothered by them.
 The BO printing can create lovely prints and is easiest to come to
grips with when there is, as you say, so much to learn.  

I've recently ordered a set of sample prints
> from LENSWORK because they use a digitally generated negative to
> 'traditionally wet print' some B&W images and one of the set of three is
> also a digital image.  I want to see what those prints look like. 

You will not see any dots on the lenswork prints without a 10x loupe.
 They are, for all practical purposes, indistinguishable from a
darkroom analog print.

 There
> were comments about DOTS on those negatives (essentially a duotone
process,
> I think) and I want to see that on a print.  Does anyone provide a
similar
> inexpensive sample print series for 100% digital processing?  I
still need
> to see a full digital B&W print.
> 


--
Kevin

Hello Vic,

>I'm still struggling to make the transition from film to digital 
>and my head is so full of ZONES that I am a little bit like a fish 
>out of water with this new 'system.'  I need an ANCHOR point 
>somewhere...With my old Zone VI calibrated spot meter, 4 x 5
>TRI-X/HC-110, and Brilliant paper I (thought) I knew what was 
going on most of the time!

I too came from a Zone VI orientation and am now happily doing only
digital printing, and am also now feeling my way into using a digital
camera (and I like what I'm getting so far, but still much to learn).
 

 
>I'm also a little bewildered by the reference to DOTS in BO printing 
>-- which by the comments I've read, seems to be a very good 
>methodology.  Are they REALLY discernable in a properly sized (for
>the image resolution) print?  

Yes and no.  It depends on what the definition of "discernable" is (my
last name is not Clinton <g>).  There are two levels of discernment. 
One is whether individual dots are visable.  In most cases a loupe is
required.  Someone with really sharp eyesight, looking carefully under
good light, can see dots in higher zones.  At normal viewing distance
by people who aren't looking for it they are never noticed.  The
other level of discernment is that BO prints have a grainy look in
smooth upper mid-tone areas that resembles Tri-X prints.  BO printing
is often preferred by long-time Tri-X users and is often referred to
as "Digital Tri-X".

My web site (link below) has some articles about BO printing and
discusses the pros and cons of the dots along with other things.  BO
is a great way to get started because there's no messing with
separation curves and paper profiles, and many people like it better
than other methods because of its look.  It's a complex issue with
many facets, but the main thing is it's easy and inexpensive to get
started and doesn't lock you in to any system.  You can always
experiment with other things and come back to it if you wish.  So
there's nothing to lose by trying it.


>Does anyone provide a similar inexpensive sample print series for 
>100% digital processing?  I still need to see a full digital B&W 
>print.

My web site also offers some inexpensive sample prints.  At the moment
they are all from scanned Tri-X negs, but I will very soon (next few
days) be adding one from my recent digital camera work. One of the
things I'm discovering is that because the digital images have no film
grain, the BO prints look much smoother than those from scanned film.
 So the grainy look is greatly reduced, but the crisp sharp BO look is
still there.  I'm very pleased with it and at this point have
dispelled my fears that I would not be able to make good BW photos
with a digital camera.  It's been a long slow transition for me, but
the more I learn the more excited I'm getting about it.  Please feel
free to contact me by email if you have any other questions.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm