Digital BW, The Print

Both these prints are on EAM, despite the 'green' problem I'm having with
cone etc , to be fair JC has said that Piezo shouldn't be used on EAM
because of the way that the ink reacts with the paper. A lot of people
complain about piezo being warm on SE, but SE is notorious for turning piezo
brown - PR is not, WR also is not. I send some prints to a well known photog
(I won't quote his name as I've not asked permission to share this, but his
comments on piezo were as follows:

"here's what i think -- there's a really big difference between the piezo
prints and a traditional darkroom print.  the difference feels to me like
the difference between a watercolor painting and an oil painting.  in fact
the texture of the paper is very much like paper used for watercolors.

this doesn't mean that the effect is not pleasing -- but like oils, i don't
think it reflects as much light as a darkroom print.  this is especially
true in the darker areas and the lighter areas, due to the paper, are just
not as white.

in terms of tonality, the picture that worked the best for me was of the kid
in the cart on the boardwalk.  and this makes sense since it was all about
middle-tones."

Julian

----- Original Message -----
From: <rbollini@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 2:08 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Paul Roark's Comparison Print.


> In the list *Files* section, "Message Related Files", FS-N1-PZO.jpg,
> Paul has placed two prints of a landscape printed with the Piezo
> software using Piezo inks for one image, and a neutral set of his own
> devising for the other. My monitor is calibrated with PhotoCal, and
> the colour prints I get from my 1160 using a ProfilerRGB profiler
> match wonderfully well with the screen image, so I assume the
> impression I have of these two prints is sound. Rich as it is, the
> piezo print bears a distinctly green cast. The other print suits my
> taste very well, but that's not the point. I want only to ask those
> of you who print with the piezo set to look at the prints Paul has
> made available and say whether the piezo fairly represents your
> experience with these inks. Warm is one thing, green is another.
> Bob Bollini
>
>
>
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Bob Bollini wrote:

>In the list *Files* section, "Message Related Files", FS-N1-PZO.jpg,
>Paul has placed two prints of a landscape printed with the Piezo
>software using Piezo inks for one image, and a neutral set of his own
>devising for the other. My monitor is calibrated with PhotoCal, and
>the colour prints I get from my 1160 using a ProfilerRGB profiler
>match wonderfully well with the screen image, so I assume the
>impression I have of these two prints is sound. Rich as it is, the
>piezo print bears a distinctly green cast. The other print suits my
>taste very well, but that's not the point. I want only to ask those
>of you who print with the piezo set to look at the prints Paul has
>made available and say whether the piezo fairly represents your
>experience with these inks. Warm is one thing, green is another.

All I can say or put out there what my experience is.  I've had about 4
bathces of Piezo 4 oz. bottles.  All were about the same color.  I used a
CIS but then stopped when my densities started to vary too much.  I now load
Peizo into carts.  I've never, however, had the "green" or other problems
with it to the extent many seem to report on the Piezo list.  So, overall,
I've assumed that my Piezo experience is rather normal.

That said, I do consider the native color of Piezo to be slightly green, and
I do believe that the EAM print that I scanned, and the image I posted is
representative of my Peizo experience.

Paper type certianly does affect color.  Somerset Enhanced is warm.  EAM
I've always considered relatively neutral, but it does have about 1 unit of
green in the paper base according to my scanner.  Somerset Velvet has always
been the non-caoted paper that poepel point to as totally neutral.

Well, my Piezo on Somerset Velvet is certainly less warm than Piezo on EAM,
but the greeness is the same.  Although I did not have exact copies of
prints to compare, here are my RGB reading for EAM and Somerset Velvet with
Piezo ink:

EAM: RGB = 126/130/121

Somerset Velvet: RGB = 145/147/142

So, that is the best evidence I have.  Take it for what is it worth.  I
think the native color of Piezo is slightly green.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Bob Bollini wrote:
> 
> >In the list *Files* section, "Message Related Files", 
FS-N1-PZO.jpg,
> >Paul has placed two prints of a landscape printed with the 
Piezo
> >software using Piezo inks for one image, and a neutral set of 
his own
> >devising for the other. My monitor is calibrated with PhotoCal, 
and
> >the colour prints I get from my 1160 using a ProfilerRGB 
profiler
> >match wonderfully well with the screen image, so I assume 
the
> >impression I have of these two prints is sound. Rich as it is, 
the
> >piezo print bears a distinctly green cast. The other print suits 
my
> >taste very well, but that's not the point. I want only to ask those
> >of you who print with the piezo set to look at the prints Paul 
has
> >made available and say whether the piezo fairly represents 
your
> >experience with these inks. Warm is one thing, green is 
another.
> 
> All I can say or put out there what my experience is.  I've had 
about 4
> bathces of Piezo 4 oz. bottles.  All were about the same color.  I 
used a
> CIS but then stopped when my densities started to vary too 
much.  I now load
> Peizo into carts.  I've never, however, had the "green" or other 
problems
> with it to the extent many seem to report on the Piezo list.  So, 
overall,
> I've assumed that my Piezo experience is rather normal.
> 
> That said, I do consider the native color of Piezo to be slightly 
green, and
> I do believe that the EAM print that I scanned, and the image I 
posted is
> representative of my Peizo experience.
> 
> Paper type certianly does affect color.  Somerset Enhanced is 
warm.  EAM
> I've always considered relatively neutral, but it does have about 
1 unit of
> green in the paper base according to my scanner.  Somerset 
Velvet has always
> been the non-caoted paper that poepel point to as totally 
neutral.
> 
> Well, my Piezo on Somerset Velvet is certainly less warm than 
Piezo on EAM,
> but the greeness is the same.  Although I did not have exact 
copies of
> prints to compare, here are my RGB reading for EAM and 
Somerset Velvet with
> Piezo ink:
> 
> EAM: RGB = 126/130/121
> 
> Somerset Velvet: RGB = 145/147/142
> 
> So, that is the best evidence I have.  Take it for what is it worth.  
I
> think the native color of Piezo is slightly green.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

My limited experience with Piezo inks and different papers is that 
initially the print comes out with a slight green cast, regardless of 
what paper I use it on, but if I "develop" it in the sun for a day (or 
less), the prints take on a more sepia or warm tone. Papers I 've 
used are Concorde Rag, WR, Orwell, Cone Tech Matte, 
Somereset Enhanced and Xtreme Gamut Satine. 

Placed some test prints in a black box to compare with prints 
placed in a window for 10 days, and te prints in the box were 
slightly warmer than a fresh print coming out, but not nearly as 
warm as those in the window. Did not notice a density shift.

Thom

tanola@...

Some (all?) plexiglas has a VERY slight warm (pink?) tint, which helps 
bring my piezo prints back to neutral.


Jim Klebau

On Sunday, November 4, 2001, at 03:01 PM, Paul Roark wrote:

> CLIP, CLIP, CLIP
>
> So, that is the best evidence I have.  Take it for what is it worth.  I
> think the native color of Piezo is slightly green.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
>