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Digital BW, The Print

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Re: [Digital BW] MIS VM & OS X [was] Re: quadtone curves in OS X

Re: [Digital BW] MIS VM & OS X [was] Re: quadtone curves in OS X

2004-11-04 by B. Campbell

"Of course, if one only prints with one tone, then the UT-FS (medium warm)
or
UT-FSN (neutral) inkset might be a good way to go.  Their curves are more
tolerant of paper differences. "

When you refer to UT-FSN as "neutral" do you mean "neutral" but with a
selenium-toned look like the neutral with UT-2 inks on EEM paper or neutral
without any appearance of being toned? And if the latter, with what papers
does it achieve that look?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 7:19 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] MIS VM & OS X [was] Re: quadtone curves in OS X



Lara,

The old MIS VM curves might not work with OS X.  Since I don't have a Mac,
I'm not able to test this.

It's probably time to upgrade to the UT1 or other inkset.  The MIS Ultra
Tone family inks are the only ones I now use and support.



(Lara, the following is largely what I've sent to you off list and expands
on the subject.)



With the original MIS VM inkset and curves, the Drive Color Management was
set to "Color Controls."  Unlike "No Color Adjustment" (which I now use),
"Color Controls" tends to include and impose its own ideas of how color
should be handled; and it is not cross-platform or independent of the OS.
There had to be separate PC and Mac sets of curves with the old MIS VM 1160
curves.  (Utilizing the sliders was the reason for the Color Controls
setting in the past.)

So, there is a fair chance that OS X is not compatible with the existing
1160 MIS VM curves for the older Mac operating systems.

I have upgraded the VM inkset.  The new one is sold by MIS as the "UT"
inkset.  This was the first Ultra Tone family inkset I made.  There are now
a number of others.  For these new inksets I have new curves that use "No
Color Adjustment" ("NCA") and are platform independent (as far as I know).

So, I recommend you switch to one of the new UT inksets.  The MIS-UT inkset
(also known as UT-1) is a straight upgrade of the MIS VM inkset.  But, of
course, no 2 inks are identical.  I have made new curves for the UT-1 inkset
that use the NCA adjustment and are cross-platform.  These new curves would
have a much better chance of working, first, with the new UT1 inkset, and,
second, maybe even with the old MIS VM inkset.

Of course, if one only prints with one tone, then the UT-FS (medium warm) or
UT-FSN (neutral) inkset might be a good way to go.  Their curves are more
tolerant of paper differences.


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com





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RE: [Digital BW] MIS VM & OS X [was] Re: quadtone curves in OS X

2004-11-04 by Paul Roark

>When you refer to UT-FSN as "neutral" do you mean "neutral" but with a
>selenium-toned look like the neutral with UT-2 inks on EEM paper or neutral
>without any appearance of being toned? And if the latter, with what papers
>does it achieve that look?

There is a slight "selenium" (magenta) bias built into the "neutral" inks I
mix.  My target is my lightly-selenium-toned silver prints (Kodak Polymax
Fine Art, Dektol, Rapid Selenium 1:19 2-3 min.).  To be specific, the
midtone density will have spectrophotometer readings such that cyan and
yellow are equal and magenta is up 0.01 unit.  Of course, these are my
targets.  The actual ink in the market may be different.  Getting the
production inks to consistently be on target is an issue that is on the
front burner.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] MIS VM & OS X [was] Re: quadtone curves in OS X

2004-11-04 by B. Campbell

"My target is my lightly-selenium-toned silver prints (Kodak Polymax
Fine Art, Dektol, Rapid Selenium 1:19 2-3 min.)."

Thanks. The tone I've been getting for the last six months or longer first
with the VM inks and now with the UT2 inks that I installed a few days ago,
using EEM, a 1280 printer, and your EEM neutral curve, have a more dramatic
selenium look than this target would produce with Polymax Fine Art paper.
What I'm getting more closely resembles a dilution of about 1:9 and a time
of five minutes or so, i.e. a slightly pinkish or purplish look rather than
a neutral black and white. Could you give me an idea of how I might adjust
the EEM neutral UT2 curves(i.e. which R, G, or B curve would be moved and in
what direction the move would be), or what other changes might be made, in
an effort to obtain a more neutral black and white?  I've tried using the
sliders to increase cyan and decrease magenta, sometimes with and sometimes
without a small yellow reduction, but that didn't work.  I assume the
problem isn't the inks since I've obtained the same look with both the VM
and the UT2 cartridges, though I'm on my first batch of UT2 cartridges (I
ran a three-step cleaning cycle before making a print with the UT2 inks,
which is all MIS tech support said would be needed). .
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 2:19 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] MIS VM & OS X [was] Re: quadtone curves in OS X




>When you refer to UT-FSN as "neutral" do you mean "neutral" but with a
>selenium-toned look like the neutral with UT-2 inks on EEM paper or neutral
>without any appearance of being toned? And if the latter, with what papers
>does it achieve that look?

There is a slight "selenium" (magenta) bias built into the "neutral" inks I
mix.  My target is my lightly-selenium-toned silver prints (Kodak Polymax
Fine Art, Dektol, Rapid Selenium 1:19 2-3 min.).  To be specific, the
midtone density will have spectrophotometer readings such that cyan and
yellow are equal and magenta is up 0.01 unit.  Of course, these are my
targets.  The actual ink in the market may be different.  Getting the
production inks to consistently be on target is an issue that is on the
front burner.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com






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they are often being updated.

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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
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DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
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POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
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ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
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RE: [Digital BW] MIS VM & OS X [was] Re: quadtone curves in OS X

2004-11-04 by Paul Roark

>>"My target is my lightly-selenium-toned silver prints 
>>(Kodak Polymax Fine Art, Dektol, Rapid Selenium 1:19 2-3 min.)."

>... The tone I've been getting for the last six months or longer first
>with the VM inks and now with the UT2 inks that I installed a few days ago,
>using EEM, a 1280 printer, and your EEM neutral curve, have a more dramatic
>selenium look than this target would produce with Polymax Fine Art paper.

Yes, I'm on it.  Although there will always be subjective differences as to
what makes the "best" B&W image, the hues have migrated to a more "selenium"
look than the target.

>...  I assume the problem isn't the inks since I've obtained the 
>same look with both the VM and the UT2 cartridges ...

I have not tracked the VM hues lately.  

Probably the best short term fix is to use a cool curve.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
____________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 2:19 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] MIS VM & OS X [was] Re: quadtone curves in OS X




>When you refer to UT-FSN as "neutral" do you mean "neutral" but with a
>selenium-toned look like the neutral with UT-2 inks on EEM paper or neutral
>without any appearance of being toned? And if the latter, with what papers
>does it achieve that look?

There is a slight "selenium" (magenta) bias built into the "neutral" inks I
mix.  My target is my lightly-selenium-toned silver prints (Kodak Polymax
Fine Art, Dektol, Rapid Selenium 1:19 2-3 min.).  To be specific, the
midtone density will have spectrophotometer readings such that cyan and
yellow are equal and magenta is up 0.01 unit.  Of course, these are my
targets.  The actual ink in the market may be different.  Getting the
production inks to consistently be on target is an issue that is on the
front burner.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

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Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links











Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

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DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
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Re: [Digital BW] MIS VM & OS X [was] Re: quadtone curves in OS X

2004-11-04 by B. Campbell

Thanks, I'll try that. But even if it doesn't work, it's good to know that
the inks have "migrated," at least I know I'm not going crazy.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 10:41 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] MIS VM & OS X [was] Re: quadtone curves in OS X





>>"My target is my lightly-selenium-toned silver prints
>>(Kodak Polymax Fine Art, Dektol, Rapid Selenium 1:19 2-3 min.)."

>... The tone I've been getting for the last six months or longer first
>with the VM inks and now with the UT2 inks that I installed a few days ago,
>using EEM, a 1280 printer, and your EEM neutral curve, have a more dramatic
>selenium look than this target would produce with Polymax Fine Art paper.

Yes, I'm on it.  Although there will always be subjective differences as to
what makes the "best" B&W image, the hues have migrated to a more "selenium"
look than the target.

>...  I assume the problem isn't the inks since I've obtained the
>same look with both the VM and the UT2 cartridges ...

I have not tracked the VM hues lately.

Probably the best short term fix is to use a cool curve.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
____________________________________


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 2:19 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] MIS VM & OS X [was] Re: quadtone curves in OS X




>When you refer to UT-FSN as "neutral" do you mean "neutral" but with a
>selenium-toned look like the neutral with UT-2 inks on EEM paper or neutral
>without any appearance of being toned? And if the latter, with what papers
>does it achieve that look?

There is a slight "selenium" (magenta) bias built into the "neutral" inks I
mix.  My target is my lightly-selenium-toned silver prints (Kodak Polymax
Fine Art, Dektol, Rapid Selenium 1:19 2-3 min.).  To be specific, the
midtone density will have spectrophotometer readings such that cyan and
yellow are equal and magenta is up 0.01 unit.  Of course, these are my
targets.  The actual ink in the market may be different.  Getting the
production inks to consistently be on target is an issue that is on the
front burner.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

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Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links











Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
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FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
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"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

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Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
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