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Paper type and layman's taste: what's your experience?

Paper type and layman's taste: what's your experience?

2005-01-06 by jm-ferreira@bluewin.ch

Hi all,

 

I’ve been showing around some prints from the 2100/2200, looking for
feedback. These prints were both on matte paper (Epson Archival Matte,
Hahnemuhle Torchon, Photo Rag and William Turner) as well as semi-gloss
(Epson SemiGloss Premium, Mitsubishi semigloss and Ilford Galerie Perl). I
find the available glossy paper too “RC-ish” for my taste – In the darkroom
I print FB glossy air-dried.

 

Ideally, I would love to find an inkjet paper that most resembles the look,
touch and feel of FB paper (Ilford). For the moment the closest I got is
with Ilford Perl and Mitsubishi semigloss.

 

I liked the Hahnemuhle Torchon a lot, but I think this specialty paper
doesn’t “work” with all subjects/projects; I’m planning on using it for some
colour work, to achieve a “watercoloury” effect.

I liked the texture and feel of William Turner paper as well, but I think it
lacks a certain “punch” to be used as my everyday paper… But I will
certainly be using it for some projects where the “punch” isn’t really
required.

 

So… I showed some prints to friends and relatives (non-photographers) and
they ALL thought that matte papers look “inkjettish”, non-photographic. Most
people seem to be used to glossy papers as a photo standard. (if it doesn’t
bronze, it isn’t a photo!)  Are you people having the same kind of feedback?

 

After all, people don’t really care if paper A is more “fine-art” and
expensive than paper B and they shouldn’t… Their feedback is valuable
exactly because they don’t know this!

 

Ultimately, it is the artist’s choice the kind of medium he/she’ll be using
– but what’s your experience regarding the feedback you receive from
non-photographers? Do they always say: I prefer your darkroom stuff?

 

Thank you for your time.

 

José Miguel Ferreira

T: (+41) 076 472 09 15

 <http://www.jmf-photo.net> http://www.jmf-photo.net

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Paper type and layman's taste: what's your experience?

2005-01-07 by Douglas Meeuwsen

I many times showed a friend a real nice print on photo rag and they 
said .....
"wow, ....and you did this at kinko's?"......(kinko's is a xerox 
place).......and you show then gloss print they say...."who developed 
these?".......I actually like glossy better. For a long time I was 
embarrased to admit that. ....weird.
One other thing though, if you show them a print under glass, they 
never know that it is an inkjet print. And the raggy papers look great 
from every angle. .....oh well, that's why we have so many papers to 
choose from, right?.....interesting discussion. This a nice forum. Doug 
M
On Jan 6, 2005, at 3:42 PM, jm-ferreira@... wrote:

>  So� I showed some prints to friends and relatives (non-photographers) 
> and
>  they ALL thought that matte papers look �inkjettish�, 
> non-photographic. Most
>  people seem to be used to glossy papers as a photo standard. (if it 
> doesn�t
>  bronze, it isn�t a photo!)� Are you people having the same kind of 
> feedback?
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Paper type and layman's taste: what's your experience?

2005-01-07 by e5bowman

I've had similar feedback...Many people think that RC papers look 
like "real photos," while matte papers are from an inkjet.  (And 
they're partially right - the matte DID come from an inkjet, right?  
They just don't assume that the glossy did.)

As Doug mentioned, one nice thing about the matte papers is that 
they look great under glass - from any angle.  There is no "glare" 
like there is from RC papers.  And it is difficult, if not 
impossible, to tell what paper type once it is under glass.

That said, I've been struggling a bit with the same thing.  I really 
like the way some of the matte papers look, the way they 
(hopefully!) last, and they are very fashionable right now with 
photographers, if not consumers.  But I kinda like some of the 
semigloss and glossy papers, actually.  And they generally hold a 
larger gamut - and I hate trying to correct out-of-gamut problems!  
Maybe custom profiles for the matte papers would help a bit...

Eric

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <jm-
ferreira@b...> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've been showing around some prints from the 2100/2200, looking 
for
> feedback. > So… I showed some prints to friends and relatives (non-
photographers) and
> they ALL thought that matte papers look "inkjettish", non-
photographic.

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Paper type and layman's taste: what's your experience?

2005-01-07 by jm-ferreira@bluewin.ch

-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: e5bowman [mailto:e5bowman@...] 
Sent: vendredi, 7. janvier 2005 02:27
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Paper type and layman's taste: what's your
experience?

 



I've had similar feedback...Many people think that RC papers look 
like "real photos," while matte papers are from an inkjet.  (And 
they're partially right - the matte DID come from an inkjet, right?  
They just don't assume that the glossy did.)

As Doug mentioned, one nice thing about the matte papers is that 
they look great under glass - from any angle.  There is no "glare" 
like there is from RC papers.  And it is difficult, if not 
impossible, to tell what paper type once it is under glass.

 

[JMF]  I understand that
 The « problem » is that I never put photos under
glass
 Pardon the analogy, but I see glass a little bit like a « visual
condom »


The only time I had to put photos under glass was at a recent exhibit, and
only because the gallery *really* insisted
 (something to do with protecting
the merchandise
)

 

J.

 



That said, I've been struggling a bit with the same thing.  I really 
like the way some of the matte papers look, the way they 
(hopefully!) last, and they are very fashionable right now with 
photographers, if not consumers.  But I kinda like some of the 
semigloss and glossy papers, actually.  And they generally hold a 
larger gamut - and I hate trying to correct out-of-gamut problems!  
Maybe custom profiles for the matte papers would help a bit...

Eric

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <jm-
ferreira@b...> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've been showing around some prints from the 2100/2200, looking 
for
> feedback. > So
 I showed some prints to friends and relatives (non-
photographers) and
> they ALL thought that matte papers look "inkjettish", non-
photographic.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Paper type and layman's taste: what's your experience?

2005-01-07 by James Irelan

On Jan 6, 2005, at 5:52 PM, Douglas Meeuwsen wrote:

>
> I many times showed a friend a real nice print on photo rag and they
> said .....
> "wow, ....and you did this at kinko's?"

At some point you may do as I've done:  I no longer show my work to 
people like that.

James

Re: [Digital BW] Paper type and layman's taste: what's your experience?

2005-01-07 by Douglas Meeuwsen

trouble is that was my wife! actually there are a LOT of people like 
that. Lots and Lots and LOTS. Almost everybody I have ever shown a 
matte print to has looked "askance" unless it was under glass....DM
On Jan 6, 2005, at 9:16 PM, James Irelan wrote:

>
>  On Jan 6, 2005, at 5:52 PM, Douglas Meeuwsen wrote:
>
>  >
>  > I many times showed a friend a real nice print on photo rag and they
>  > said .....
>  > "wow, ....and you did this at kinko's?"
>
>  At some point you may do as I've done:� I no longer show my work to
>  people like that.
>
>  James
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
>  Please follow these basic guidelines:
>  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
>  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
>  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
>  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� 
> AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE� �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> 	� 	To visit your group on the web, go to:
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> �
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> �
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> Service.
>
>  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Paper type and layman's taste: what's your experience?

2005-01-07 by Lee Hiers

On 6 Jan 2005 at 16:52, Douglas Meeuwsen wrote:

> I many times showed a friend a real nice print on photo rag and they 
> said .....
> "wow, ....and you did this at kinko's?"......(kinko's is a xerox 
> place).......and you show then gloss print they say...."who developed 
> these?".......I actually like glossy better. For a long time I was 
> embarrased to admit that. ....weird.
> One other thing though, if you show them a print under glass, they 
> never know that it is an inkjet print. 

I've just started down the inkjet print road, but can see that the 
masses may not appreciate matte finish.  It's been a long time since 
I was in a real darkroom, but I remember people not liking matte 
prints as well back then either.  

Well, the inkjet prints seem somewhat fragile (C86 pigment prints), 
and I don't think they can stand a lot of handling, especially on 
matte paper.  So, I'm putting all the prints I show folks in clear 
plastic sleeves...just like framing under glass, it effectively 
glosses up the paper.

FWIW,

Lee


-- 
Lee Hiers, AA4GA
Cornelia, Georgia

"Have Dobro Will Travel"

Re: [Digital BW] Paper type and layman's taste: what's your experience?

2005-01-07 by B. Campbell

>trouble is that was my wife! actually there are a LOT of people like
>that. Lots and Lots and LOTS. Almost everybody I have ever shown a
>matte print to has looked "askance" unless it was under glass....DM


I've never had that happen. To the extent people have said anything about
the paper surface (and they almost never do) they've said it looks artistic
or interesting. I've assumed that non-photographers feel that way because
they're so used glossy drugstore prints.  Are you sure it's the paper
surface they have in mind when they see the photographs and think of Kinkos?
: - )
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Douglas Meeuwsen" <lipshurt@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Paper type and layman's taste: what's your
experience?



trouble is that was my wife! actually there are a LOT of people like
that. Lots and Lots and LOTS. Almost everybody I have ever shown a
matte print to has looked "askance" unless it was under glass....DM
On Jan 6, 2005, at 9:16 PM, James Irelan wrote:

>
>  On Jan 6, 2005, at 5:52 PM, Douglas Meeuwsen wrote:
>
>  >
>  > I many times showed a friend a real nice print on photo rag and they
>  > said .....
>  > "wow, ....and you did this at kinko's?"
>
>  At some point you may do as I've done: I no longer show my work to
>  people like that.
>
>  James
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
> this same page.
>
>  Please follow these basic guidelines:
>  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep them short.
>  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from
> the membership without notice.
>  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
> removed from the membership.
>  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
> Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER"
> AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES),
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> . To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>
> . To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> . Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
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Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

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