Yahoo Groups archive

Digital BW, The Print

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:56 UTC

Thread

Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100

Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100

2005-02-01 by binbarn64

I would like to achieve printing neutral B/W prints using the Epson 2100 and 
Archival Matt Paper. Firstly, should I print from a grayscale file or an RGB file 
that is either desaturated or made B/W by using the channel mixer in 
Photoshop? Secondly, does the 2100 have to be linearized using the Gray 
Balancer in order to correct the colour cast that I seem to get? The results I 
have had using just black ink are not good either.

Any advice or instructions would be greatly appreciated

Re: [Digital BW] Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100

2005-02-01 by Steve Kale

Forget the grey balancer - just throw it away.  There are many ways to
convert RGB to B&W - take a search through the archives - desaturate is
about the worst possible way.  I assume you want to keep the Epson UC inks
for now.  What platform do you use Mac or PC?  Definitely suggest trying
QTR.  See:

http://harrington.com/QuadToneRIP.html

Very effective, flexible and inexpensive.

Steve
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: binbarn64 <binbarn64@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 13:17:00 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to achieve printing neutral B/W prints using the Epson 2100 and
> Archival Matt Paper. Firstly, should I print from a grayscale file or an RGB
> file 
> that is either desaturated or made B/W by using the channel mixer in
> Photoshop? Secondly, does the 2100 have to be linearized using the Gray
> Balancer in order to correct the colour cast that I seem to get? The results I
> have had using just black ink are not good either.
> 
> Any advice or instructions would be greatly appreciated
>

Re: [Digital BW] Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100

2005-02-01 by Hans VR

I agree,

QTR and QTRgui are great for B&W printing. The only problem is if you 
want to print B&W with just one detail in color like this : 
http://www.pbase.com/hvr_oosterzele/image/37157552

Concerning B&W conversion : use the channel mixer in monochrome or one 
or another PS plugin. There are many on the market, I sometimes use this 
: http://www.rogercavanagh.com/variations/bw/02_bw-1.stm

--
Hans VR
www.hansvr.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Forget the grey balancer - just throw it away.  There are many ways to
>convert RGB to B&W - take a search through the archives - desaturate is
>about the worst possible way.  I assume you want to keep the Epson UC inks
>for now.  What platform do you use Mac or PC?  Definitely suggest trying
>QTR.  See:
>
>http://harrington.com/QuadToneRIP.html
>
>Very effective, flexible and inexpensive.
>
>Steve
>
>
>  
>
>>From: binbarn64 <binbarn64@...>
>>Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>>Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 13:17:00 -0000
>>To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>>Subject: [Digital BW] Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100
>>
>>
>>
>>I would like to achieve printing neutral B/W prints using the Epson 2100 and
>>Archival Matt Paper. Firstly, should I print from a grayscale file or an RGB
>>file 
>>that is either desaturated or made B/W by using the channel mixer in
>>Photoshop? Secondly, does the 2100 have to be linearized using the Gray
>>Balancer in order to correct the colour cast that I seem to get? The results I
>>have had using just black ink are not good either.
>>
>>Any advice or instructions would be greatly appreciated
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: [Digital BW] Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100

2005-02-01 by binbarn64

Thanks for you reply.I am using a Mac G4. I don't know enough about using 
alternative inks but would like to know more. The same goes for alternative 
fine art papers and how I obtain colour profiles for them.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <
stevekale@b...> wrote:
> Forget the grey balancer - just throw it away.  There are many ways to
> convert RGB to B&W - take a search through the archives - desaturate is
> about the worst possible way.  I assume you want to keep the Epson UC 
inks
> for now.  What platform do you use Mac or PC?  Definitely suggest trying
> QTR.  See:
> 
> http://harrington.com/QuadToneRIP.html
> 
> Very effective, flexible and inexpensive.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> > From: binbarn64 <binbarn64@y...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 13:17:00 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I would like to achieve printing neutral B/W prints using the Epson 2100 
and
> > Archival Matt Paper. Firstly, should I print from a grayscale file or an RGB
> > file 
> > that is either desaturated or made B/W by using the channel mixer in
> > Photoshop? Secondly, does the 2100 have to be linearized using the 
Gray
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > Balancer in order to correct the colour cast that I seem to get? The results I
> > have had using just black ink are not good either.
> > 
> > Any advice or instructions would be greatly appreciated
> >

Re: [Digital BW] Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100

2005-02-01 by Steve Kale

Well for now stick with the colour inks - you can expand into other ink sets
as you get up to speed a bit more.  Given you, like I, live in the UK
(assuming from your email address) you are probably wise to explore MIS'
equivalent inks to the Epson Ultrachromes.  See here:

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/arcink_7600.html

You can buy their new refillable cartridges for the 21/2200 which work like
a dream.  Check out the instructions for filling them and get the various
bits and pieces (syringe, bottom fill adaptor, chip resetter etc).  The cost
of a 4oz bottle of ink is the same as one Epson cartridge here in London. So
the cost of shipping etc pays for itself quite quickly.  Beats blowing £10 a
pop for a new cartridge.

Having a Mac will make it a little bit easier to get used to QTR.  Great
advances are being made on the PC side but it is still not really there yet.
Take a good look at Roy's website (including the new instructions for using
Lab Gray and Perceptual Intent workflow - people have underestimated the
great stride forward that this represents).  Come back with any questions.

Having a well calibrated screen is a must.

Steve
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: binbarn64 <binbarn64@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 13:55:42 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for you reply.I am using a Mac G4. I don't know enough about using
> alternative inks but would like to know more. The same goes for alternative
> fine art papers and how I obtain colour profiles for them.
> 

> 
> 
>

Re: Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100

2005-02-01 by John Houghton

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> Well for now stick with the colour inks - you can expand into other 
ink sets
> as you get up to speed a bit more.  Given you, like I, live in the 
UK
> (assuming from your email address) you are probably wise to explore 
MIS'
> equivalent inks to the Epson Ultrachromes.  See here:
> 
> http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/arcink_7600.html

Steve, How do the MIS inks compare to the Epson UC inks in regard to 
metamerism?  I have Lyson Fotonic inks in a 1290, which are poor in 
this respect. I don't want to make the same mistake again with the 
2100.

John

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100

2005-02-01 by Steve Kale

If you use QTR metamerism is not an issue even with colour inks.  For B&W
tho I do think there is a lot to be gained from dedicated inks if and when
you are ready.  But as a first step for the original poster the MIS UC
equivs represent a sensible economic move.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: John Houghton <j.houghton@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 15:46:29 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
>> Well for now stick with the colour inks - you can expand into other
> ink sets
>> as you get up to speed a bit more.  Given you, like I, live in the
> UK
>> (assuming from your email address) you are probably wise to explore
> MIS'
>> equivalent inks to the Epson Ultrachromes.  See here:
>> 
>> http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/arcink_7600.html
> 
> Steve, How do the MIS inks compare to the Epson UC inks in regard to
> metamerism?  I have Lyson Fotonic inks in a 1290, which are poor in
> this respect. I don't want to make the same mistake again with the
> 2100.
> 
> John

[Digital BW] Re: Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100

2005-02-01 by John Houghton

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> 
> If you use QTR metamerism is not an issue even with colour inks.  

Of course I realise that.  However, I print more colour than b&w and 
I really would like to know how the metamerism with the MIS inks 
compares with the Epson inks.  You cannot just dispense with the 
yellow ink in colour prints!

John

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100

2005-02-01 by Steve Kale

I have no problems with my colour prints.  Just doing some now on Ilford
Smooth Pearl.  (I also use QTR to add a layer of gloss optimiser.)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: John Houghton <j.houghton@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:59:53 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Neutral B/W Prints Epson 2100
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
>> 
>> If you use QTR metamerism is not an issue even with colour inks.
> 
> Of course I realise that.  However, I print more colour than b&w and
> I really would like to know how the metamerism with the MIS inks
> compares with the Epson inks.  You cannot just dispense with the
> yellow ink in colour prints!
> 
> John
>

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.