Digital BW, The Print

Now that some of us are using the 2200,4000, 7600,9600 to do B&W 
printing through QTR,IJC/OPM, etc. I'd like to know if anyone is 
using or has tried the MIS ARCHIVAL INK replacement for the Epson 
inks. Any problems discovered or observations to be made would be 
appreciated.

John H

Up until recently I used it for both colour and B&W work.  Now I still use
it for colour but, with the advent of refillable cartridges, I use a
dedicated B&W ink set for B&W.  No issues - excellent ink (will need to be
profiled).  Coat the colour images with glop and they will be the best you
have ever printed.

> From: Mr_Misty_44 <jharvey@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:31:08 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] The MIS 7600 Archival Inkset
> 
> 
> 
> Now that some of us are using the 2200,4000, 7600,9600 to do B&W
> printing through QTR,IJC/OPM, etc. I'd like to know if anyone is
> using or has tried the MIS ARCHIVAL INK replacement for the Epson
> inks. Any problems discovered or observations to be made would be
> appreciated.
> 
> John H
>

Hi John,
I started using the MIS archival inkset with the new refillable clear carts, all seems to work well. I
used Profile Prism to generate profiles for the new ink and paper. (I use Epson Matte) but I find that
just using the profiles that I downloaded from Epson works better. I was very pleased and surprised at
this finding but it tells me that MIS inkset must have the same color gamut.

Jake

Fine Art Photography
www.jakehellbachphoto.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Mr_Misty_44 [mailto:jharvey@...]



  Now that some of us are using the 2200,4000, 7600,9600 to do B&W
  printing through QTR,IJC/OPM, etc. I'd like to know if anyone is
  using or has tried the MIS ARCHIVAL INK replacement for the Epson
  inks. Any problems discovered or observations to be made would be
  appreciated.

  John H



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steve,

As I understand your posts, for color you're using the MIS UC clone color
inks in a 2100. 

>Coat the colour images with glop and they will be the best you
>have ever printed.

Do you then run the print through a second time?

If not, how are you applying the glop?

If you do run the print through a second time, have you had any problems
with the wheels on the 2100?

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

I've just tried overprinting some color prints (made on KPP with my 
Epson 4000) with glop in my 2200 (LK slot), by printing with an LK only 
profile.  I have the rollers and front pizza wheels raised on my 2200 
so there are no roller or pizza wheel marks.

On another note, I also have the new MIS PKN installed in the PK slot 
on my 4000 now (also put UT7 LK in the LK slot) and both are working 
very well.  BO prints on the 4000 with PKN printed to Kirkland glossy, 
Epson Premium Semimatte, and Ilford Smooth Pearl are really beautiful 
with excellent dmax and neutrality.  BO fans will really love this ink 
on RC papers.  Bronzing is almost absent on Kirkland, with only some 
slight gloss differential.  Now if I could only find a way to use glop 
in the 4000 and retain color printing capability.  Only thing I've 
thought of trying was using the MK slot for glop and sacrificing matte 
paper printing, but that would also require second pass printing to 
apply the glop because it is not possible to use both black slots 
simultaneously on the 4000.  I wonder if a new LK could be prepared 
form scratch by using glop as the base and adding enough PKN to get the 
right density?  That would allow application of glop during printing of 
both color and B&W (PKN + LKN-GLOP).

Carl

On Feb 2, 2005, at 7:17 PM, Paul Roark wrote:

>
> Steve,
>
> As I understand your posts, for color you're using the MIS UC clone 
> color
> inks in a 2100.
>
>> Coat the colour images with glop and they will be the best you
>> have ever printed.
>
> Do you then run the print through a second time?
>
> If not, how are you applying the glop?
>
> If you do run the print through a second time, have you had any 
> problems
> with the wheels on the 2100?
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
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> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
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Hi Paul

Sorry in a rush but yes I let the print dry overnight and then run it
through a second time - no issues.  I have the wheels raised and pizza
wheels removed - except for 3.  QTR 15% flat line.

Something else worth thinking about: when I was profiling (for colour) Epson
Premium Luster (what a beautiful paper!) I noted that a 100% black patch
(patch 17A on the i1 TC 9.18 RGB Testchart) read L=8.9 with MISPK after
drying overnight and pre-glop.  This was a significant drop from the
out-of-the-printer reading.  After applying glop (15%) and drying for a day
the reading is stable at L=5.3.

When I did my QTR curves with glop I noted that glop at 100% reduced dMax by
a couple of L points.  So I think there is potentially something to be said
for an "overcoat" rather than laying down glop "in the mix".  Worth
exploring.

Steve

> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 16:17:09 -0800
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] The MIS 7600 Archival Inkset
> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> As I understand your posts, for color you're using the MIS UC clone color
> inks in a 2100. 
> 
>> Coat the colour images with glop and they will be the best you
>> have ever printed.
> 
> Do you then run the print through a second time?
> 
> If not, how are you applying the glop?
> 
> If you do run the print through a second time, have you had any problems
> with the wheels on the 2100?
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the
> membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See „Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines‰ in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE „OWNER‰ AND
> „MODERATORS‰ OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  „OWNER‰ AND „MODERATORS‰ OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>

Steve,

>... I think there is potentially something to be said
>for an "overcoat" rather than laying down glop "in the mix".  
>Worth exploring.

Definitely, and its one of the things on the front burner.

There appear to be advantages to both using Glop while printing and using it
as an overcoat.  Which approach is best may vary with the circumstances.
Both should probably be easy to do in an optimum printer setup.

There are a number of factors.  Since I'm gallery sitting soon, I can just
mention a couple that may affect the overcoat method:

The glop is not totally transparent.  It has some density.  As such, the
highlights will be dulled by it.  In my curves I put very little if any glop
in the highlights. I don't want the highlights dulled.

I find that a curved that tailors the glop to the bronzing pattern allows me
to deal with the highlight issues while still pouring glop on where the
bronzing is worst.

The ideal might be a perfectly registered overcoat, but that is not very
realistic with these printers.  Even a fuzzy mask is going to probably be
hitting the spectral highlights.

So ...  I'm thinking flexibility of approach at this point.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul


> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>
 
> The glop is not totally transparent.  It has some density.  As such, the
> highlights will be dulled by it.  In my curves I put very little if any glop
> in the highlights. I don't want the highlights dulled.

Agreed.  I should have said that I tell QTR to put zero glop where there is
no other ink.  All else is 15%.  Note though that a 15% coating on RC paper
is very difficult to see without tilting the paper and looking at the sheen
rather than straight at the colour of the paper.  I doubt highlights are
affected too much.  Maybe MIS' glop II will be clearer.

> 
> I find that a curved that tailors the glop to the bronzing pattern allows me
> to deal with the highlight issues while still pouring glop on where the
> bronzing is worst.

Yes and as you know I have been playing with the same (with help from both
you and Carl).  I did the "straight" 15% as a first test for colour.   For
colour it is a little more complex to do a toner or grey scale adjusted glop
application because you are sending QTR an RGB file which gets converted to
grey scale on the fly by OS-X at standard/default weightings.  At any rate
bronzing is less of an issue and gone with a straight coat.

I was thinking of exploring a grey scale adjusted overcoat for B&W.

> 
> The ideal might be a perfectly registered overcoat, but that is not very
> realistic with these printers.  Even a fuzzy mask is going to probably be
> hitting the spectral highlights.

Rolling an image through the printer twice is not really a hassle.  Just
takes a little longer.  If all you are doing is B&W then the glop can sit in
the LK slot the whole time depending on your setup.  With colour I need to
switch out the light black and do a couple of head cleans.

Anyway food for thought.  I was just noting the dMax effect.  I wonder what
it will do with PKN3.  With MISPK and Luster I got a 10% density increase
(from 2.0 to 2.22) albeit with the initial ink laid down by the Epson driver
rather than QTR which I would use for B&W. That's quite a bump.
Unfortunately I did not note the figures for EPGS and Ilford Smooth Pearl as
I was doing my calibration.  I did EPL last and had already coated the EPSG
and ISP sheets, seen the increase and then decided to record the change for
EPL.

This is all from colour test charts and images (except for my observation
that running glop into 100% black during ink lay down actually reduced dMax
by several L points.)  I am off to New Zealand tomorrow for a week and so
won't be able to play with this stuff some more for a while but I am
interested to see the differences of printing a B&W image without glop,
letting it dry and then over-coating glop on a greyscale adjusted basis.  I
suspect you may end up with the best of all worlds: no at print dMax drop
from glop, a recovery of the dMax loss from drying (remember our
conversation about sheen and spray), a more even sheen, and a big hit to
bronzing.

Cheers

Steve