Digital BW, The Print

Has anyone been happy with Lyson spray PrintGuard?

It works fine. Like any spray it can be a pain as far as trapping dust is
concerned.  It is very hard to get a decent coat without blotching big areas
of dark black.  I hang the prints and try to mist the spray towards it,
squeezing the nozzle with it initially pointed away from the print and then
moving to the print once the spray has started.  Use compressed air to make
sure the print is clean first. Hang dry.  2-3 gentle applications.  Take a
deep breath before starting...

> From: darryll48 <darryll@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:32:41 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] LYSON PRINTGUARD
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone been happy with Lyson spray PrintGuard?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
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> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
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> 
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> 
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>

I've used this Lyson spray for 4 years on all media. It works great, just like the Premier Art. 
Most likely these are the same chemical components. It is just that big Wilhelm hasn't 
tested the Printguard and published fade data about it so they are loosing out in sales to 
Premier, BIG TIME. That is probably a disgrace, and Lyson proabably invented the product 
in the first place or at least made us aware of it. I use them both.

I've used it on giant matte, luster, canvas, rag, etc. prints for years, especially in areas of 
large black because these areas are the most vulnerable to skuffing. I don't understand 
why anyone should have trouble with these sprays, they are so easy to use. Just follow the 
simple directions.

I have a good filtered mask that I bought from home depot for about $28.00. With one of 
these masks you wont smell anything or damage your brain. Also it is important to wear 
goggles because when doing very  large things you can damage your eyes over time. Just 
use common sense and you will be fine. Try to have as much ventilation as possible.

The only down side to the uv sprays is that they can reduce the d-max in very deep blacks 
somewhat with some inksets, such as carbon pigment. This is really more of an issue for 
me with small delicate prints. In that case I use Lascaux, that Paul Roark  on this site has 
recommended to us all. Do a search on this site for that info. That spray stops the 
scratching and skuffing and protects agains moisture but doesn't protect agains UV. 

John

John,

>I've used this Lyson spray for 4 years on all media. It works great, 
>just like the Premier Art. Most likely these are the same 
>chemical components.

That is my conclusion also.  Premier Imaging hates it when we say this, and
they claim theirs is a unique product.

> It is just that big Wilhelm hasn't tested the [Lyson] Printguard 
>and published fade data about it

Wilhelm has, apparently, become too expensive for all but the big companies.
That is a shame.  I'm told -- and rumors should probably not even be spread,
but what the heck -- that Premier Imaging principals are person friends of
Wilhelm and got a special deal.

>so they [Lyson] are loosing out in sales to Premier, BIG TIME. 
>That is probably a disgrace, ...

Wilhelm testing is really important to the field, but, yes, it is sad that
it ends up being a bit discriminatory.  Even if I did comparative fade
testing and found Lyson to be equal, it would not have the impact of a
Wilhelm blessing.

>I have a good filtered mask that I bought from home depot for 
>about $28.00. With one of these masks you won't smell anything 
>or damage your brain. Also it is important to wear 
>goggles because when doing very large things you can damage 
>your eyes over time. 

I saw those at Home Depot but was not sure if there are special types of
respirators for different solvent mixes.  Did you find any studies or
recommendations on these masks?

>The only down side to the uv sprays is that they can reduce the 
>d-max in very deep blacks ...

This is only with matte papers.  With glossy, Semigloss, and Semimatte
papers they increase the dmax with at least the MIS pigs.

>In that case I use Lascaux,...

It seems to soak in more because the solvent mix is less volatile.  Some in
very dry or hot climates have trouble with the Print Shield/Guard starting
to dry even before it hits the paper.  Some also think the Lascaux, due to
it soaking in more, might be better in term of binding the pigments to the
coating.  I'm going to see if that characteristic might be useful as a first
coat or two under the Print Shield.

>[Lascaux] spray stops the scratching and scuffing and protects 
>against moisture but doesn't protect agains UV. 

I assume that is why I see the Premier Art spray helping with respect to
fade resistance, whereas Lascaux is mostly neutral in that respect.

I notice that PremierArt is selling the Print Shield in large volumes.  I'm
wondering if some other type a sprayer might be able to lower the cost of
this stuff.  I have a "Preval" sprayer that has a good nozzle and might be
an alternative even for relatively low volume users.  See
http://www.prevalspraygun.com/ 

I expect this area of coatings to continue to evolve.  I'm still fascinated
with the potential of the super coatings like the 2-component aliphatic
polyurethanes.  There is even a low viscosity, aliphatic epoxy.  Ultimately,
what would be ideal is a coating that acts as an oxygen barrier.  Most of
the fading is, apparently, oxidation.  So, if one can exclude the oxygen,
maybe the fading would be virtually eliminated.

Got to go out a spray a print now.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 






Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

> I saw those at Home Depot but was not sure if there are special types of
> respirators for different solvent mixes.  Did you find any studies or
> recommendations on these masks?
> Paul

In a previous career I specialize in painting toy prototypes. Painted with very nasty 
lacquers and enamels. As far as respirators find one that meets OSHA and NIOSH 
requirements. 

Replacement carts (filters) are usually made of some kind of charcoal composite. Basically 
if can not smell the paint or laguer through the mask it's working. Once the odor is 
apparent it's time to change the carts.

Good point, John V. ,

These resperators have little replacable bag charcoal filters that MUST be replaced 
regularly to keep the things useful. They are kind of like military gas masks and are only 
as effective as the filter used.  I'm no expert on these but know that any charcoal filtered 
mask makes a huge difference.

What Paul mentioned about the sprays not reducing the d-max in glossy rc prints is new 
to me, thanks Paul. Remember the rc prints release gases for up to 24 hours so please 
don't spray you prints ( or fram them behind glass too soon ) until this takes place or they 
will fog up forever.

As for Wilhelm. I really think we should all email him asking WHY they are not testing 
products other than Epson and HP. He has set himself up as the guru of this science, we 
didn't appoint him. Paul, Jon Cone, Lyson, and most people have given up on Wilhelm 
entirely , but I don't think it is fair. As much as I appreciate all the valuable work he has 
done, it simply is a dishonest way to market. If we all wrote him this week from different 
cities asking " why are you supporting the media, inks, and protective sprays of a couple 
of companies over the dozens and dozens of fine products out there he just may be 
embarrased into testing at least a few at an affordable price. I hate to admit it but it could 
mean the difference between some of these fine companies continued existance or not.

John

Does anyone know where I can get digital b&w printing services (best quality
for lowest price).  

 

Thanks,

 

Josh

 

P.S.  I'm in the U.S.A.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Vitollo [mailto:jvlist@...] 
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 1:00 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] LYSON PRINTGUARD

 


> I saw those at Home Depot but was not sure if there are special types of
> respirators for different solvent mixes.  Did you find any studies or
> recommendations on these masks?
> Paul

In a previous career I specialize in painting toy prototypes. Painted with
very nasty 
lacquers and enamels. As far as respirators find one that meets OSHA and
NIOSH 
requirements. 

Replacement carts (filters) are usually made of some kind of charcoal
composite. Basically 
if can not smell the paint or laguer through the mask it's working. Once the
odor is 
apparent it's time to change the carts.





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
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Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.custom-digital.com/

I would suggest this site for some of the best workmanship and materials I know of.
No really good permanent monochrome output is cheap, but these prices are certainly 
affordable for this level of expertise.

John

Where in the US?  It can be done by mail, but it's better if you can talk face to face with the printer.  Makes things go faster and better.
 
Tom Baker


Josh Randall <joshrandall@...> wrote:

Does anyone know where I can get digital b&w printing services (best quality
for lowest price). 



Thanks,



Josh



P.S. I'm in the U.S.A.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Vitollo [mailto:jvlist@...] 
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 1:00 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] LYSON PRINTGUARD




> I saw those at Home Depot but was not sure if there are special types of
> respirators for different solvent mixes. Did you find any studies or
> recommendations on these masks?
> Paul

In a previous career I specialize in painting toy prototypes. Painted with
very nasty 
lacquers and enamels. As far as respirators find one that meets OSHA and
NIOSH 
requirements. 

Replacement carts (filters) are usually made of some kind of charcoal
composite. Basically 
if can not smell the paint or laguer through the mask it's working. Once the
odor is 
apparent it's time to change the carts.





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.





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ubscribe> 


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

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If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

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- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section:
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Josh, I own a lab in Santa Monica Ca. I offer Inkjet printing to  13x19 
size as of this time. I will be offering larger prints soon. I offer  B&W as 
well as color printing. If you are interested contact me at deandadin  
@.... My name is Steve and the name of my lab is Silverworks Imaging in  Santa 
Monica ca. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> http://www.custom-digital.com/
> I would suggest this site for some of the best workmanship and materials I know of.
> No really good permanent monochrome output is cheap, but these prices are certainly 
> affordable for this level of expertise.
> 
> John D

I'll second http://www.custom-digital.com/

John V.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Vitollo" <jvlist@c...> wrote:
> 
> > http://www.custom-digital.com/
> > I would suggest this site for some of the best workmanship and materials I know of.
> > No really good permanent monochrome output is cheap, but these prices are certainly 
> > affordable for this level of expertise.
> > 
> > John D
> 
> I'll second http://www.custom-digital.com/
> 
> John V.

I have also used them.  I tried their warm and selenium tone inks for two series of prints.  I 
was also very happy with their printing.  As a matter of interest, Tyler Boley frequently 
posts messages (mostly answers questions) on this forum.

Martin G.

I apreciate all this support! Thank you all. I would also like to make
sure you all know about the other great printers that are members of
our guild here-
http://www.dpguild.com/
Regarding prices, the H papers we use keep getting more and more
expensive and we are looking into other alternatives in order to keep
prices reasonable. We may have a double price list eventually, as some
of use want the great H quality but may have to pay a bit more for it.
For others, that extra ounce of dmax may not be worth the expense,
we'll see.
Thanks again, and thank you Martin.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mxgo95747"
<mxgo95747@y...> wrote:
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Vitollo"
<jvlist@c...> wrote:
> > 
> > > http://www.custom-digital.com/
> > > I would suggest this site for some of the best workmanship and
materials I know of.
> > > No really good permanent monochrome output is cheap, but these
prices are certainly 
> > > affordable for this level of expertise.
> > > 
> > > John D
> > 
> > I'll second http://www.custom-digital.com/
> > 
> > John V.
> 
> I have also used them.  I tried their warm and selenium tone inks
for two series of prints.  I 
> was also very happy with their printing.  As a matter of interest,
Tyler Boley frequently 

> posts messages (mostly answers questions) on this forum.
> 
> Martin G.

Try San Miguel Photo at www.bestlab.com 

I had three prints done there that were awesome. The image is 
projected onto "traditional" photo paper and processed wet. Prices 
are comparable to commericially done professional inkjet prints. 
Works out best if you have several printed at the same time to avoid 
multiple shipping costs.

Bill

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Josh Randall" 
<joshrandall@j...> wrote:
> Does anyone know where I can get digital b&w printing services 
(best quality
> for lowest price).  
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
> Josh
> 
>  
> 
> P.S.  I'm in the U.S.A.
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Vitollo [mailto:jvlist@c...] 
> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 1:00 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] LYSON PRINTGUARD
> 
>  
> 
> 
> > I saw those at Home Depot but was not sure if there are special 
types of
> > respirators for different solvent mixes.  Did you find any 
studies or
> > recommendations on these masks?
> > Paul
> 
> In a previous career I specialize in painting toy prototypes. 
Painted with
> very nasty 
> lacquers and enamels. As far as respirators find one that meets 
OSHA and
> NIOSH 
> requirements. 
> 
> Replacement carts (filters) are usually made of some kind of 
charcoal
> composite. Basically 
> if can not smell the paint or laguer through the mask it's 
working. Once the
> odor is 
> apparent it's time to change the carts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN 
ADVISED OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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of

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> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "yanceyiv" 
<bvaughn4@k...> wrote:
> 
> Try San Miguel Photo at www.bestlab.com 
> 
> I had three prints done there that were awesome. The image is 
> projected onto "traditional" photo paper and processed wet. Prices 
> are comparable to commericially done professional inkjet prints. 
> Works out best if you have several printed at the same time to 
avoid 
> multiple shipping costs.
> 
> Bill

Bill

Do they charge those prices listed on their web site (eg $200 for 
16x20 fibre) for b&w images that you manipulate yourself or is there 
a discount for "finished files", as the web site prices are for 
images that they manipulate from a colour digital file.

K2