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2005-02-04 by brad1gold
I am printing on a 2200 with MIS inks. Regarding conversions to grayscale from RGB files, what are the virtues of using B&W conversion plug-ins such as offered by Fred Miranda, PhotoRetouche or The Imaging Company's "Convert to Black and White" opposed to the various techniques for making the conversion within CS?
2005-02-04 by STEVE DEER
brad you'll get many opinions on this, i swear by the channel mixer on an adjustment layer in photoshop... plugins are just for the lazy --- brad1gold <brad@...> wrote: --------------------------------- I am printing on a 2200 with MIS inks. Regarding conversions to grayscale from RGB files, what are the virtues of using B&W conversion plug-ins such as offered by Fred Miranda, PhotoRetouche or The Imaging Company's "Convert to Black and White" opposed to the various techniques for making the conversion within CS? Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
2005-02-04 by Michael Hung
Actually, it has nothing to do with those plugins. The conversion to RGB is the last step before printing when you already have a grayscale image in a gray working space. You convert to RGB before printing to apply Paul's curves or use sliders so the printer driver make use of the ink correctly. Those "Convert to b/w" plugins are for converting a colour image to gray scale. Which is the first step if you have a colour image to start with. I found channel mixer good enough for that purpose. Michael --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "brad1gold" <brad@b...> wrote:
> > I am printing on a 2200 with MIS inks. Regarding conversions to > grayscale from RGB files, what are the virtues of using B&W > conversion plug-ins such as offered by Fred Miranda, PhotoRetouche > or The Imaging Company's "Convert to Black and White" opposed to the > various techniques for making the conversion within CS?
2005-02-04 by Tom Baker
Most all of the methods/plugins work. Some work better for certain types of images than others. The best bet is to try some of them with your images and your workflow to see what suits your style. Tom Baker brad1gold <brad@...> wrote: I am printing on a 2200 with MIS inks. Regarding conversions to grayscale from RGB files, what are the virtues of using B&W conversion plug-ins such as offered by Fred Miranda, PhotoRetouche or The Imaging Company's "Convert to Black and White" opposed to the various techniques for making the conversion within CS? Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2005-02-04 by Paul D. DeRocco
> From: brad1gold [mailto:brad@...] > > I am printing on a 2200 with MIS inks. Regarding conversions to > grayscale from RGB files, what are the virtues of using B&W > conversion plug-ins such as offered by Fred Miranda, PhotoRetouche > or The Imaging Company's "Convert to Black and White" opposed to the > various techniques for making the conversion within CS? I've not tried any of the plug-ins, because I'm happy with the CS tools. But as a side note, it's important to understand that since conversion to B&W involves flattening a 3D space into a 2D one, and therefore discards information, there is no single best way to do this that applies to all images. Different parts of the information are important in different images. Some images destined for monochrome have a lot of important character represented as color differences, which disappear unless you're careful which dimension you flatten the 3D space along. So my point is that plug-ins may well be useful, by giving you better knobs to twiddle, but don't expect some magic solution that absolves you of the need to make judgements about where the important information lies, individually in each image. -- Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco Paul mailto:pderocco@...
2005-02-04 by steve_bye
There are two critical aspects of converting color to black and white - mapping specific colors to grayscale values and creating a B&W image with contrast that makes the image really come alive. Many techniques, such as channel mixer, focus on determining how the hues will map to grayscale values. Even after I have used channel mixer, I often am still left with a very unexciting grayscale image. It is the second aspect, the general shape of the contrast curve, that is most critical to me, and this aspect is not well addressed by many of the tools. Color images shot on film, especially color negative film, seem to not require too much manipulation to get a good contrast range, but images shot with a digital camera are harder for me to make look good. Using an S-shaped curve to increase contrast helps, but I still struggle. It seems like a curve that models film's density-to-exposure curve should be able to do it, but I haven't seen that available as a plug-in. Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "brad1gold" <brad@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 7:24 AM Subject: [Digital BW] Conversions to Grayscale I am printing on a 2200 with MIS inks. Regarding conversions to grayscale from RGB files, what are the virtues of using B&W conversion plug-ins such as offered by Fred Miranda, PhotoRetouche or The Imaging Company's "Convert to Black and White" opposed to the various techniques for making the conversion within CS? Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links
2005-02-04 by T
Brad, I agree with Steve. I am not a fan of plug-ins if I can do it using the tools in Photoshop. In addition to the channel mixer techinque, you can also try Russell Brown's technique using the Hue/Saturation layers. You can find this on his website. It works well for me !! I have a PS buddy who wants everything automated..lol He found automation doesn't work so well in every situation. STEVE DEER <s.deer@...> wrote: brad you'll get many opinions on this, i swear by the channel mixer on an adjustment layer in photoshop... plugins are just for the lazy --- brad1gold <brad@...> wrote: --------------------------------- I am printing on a 2200 with MIS inks. Regarding conversions to grayscale from RGB files, what are the virtues of using B&W conversion plug-ins such as offered by Fred Miranda, PhotoRetouche or The Imaging Company's "Convert to Black and White" opposed to the various techniques for making the conversion within CS? Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2005-02-04 by rgb2bw
Brad, When I first investigated converting color images to black and white, I was disappointed with the various techniques I read about and tried. They all seemed to assume just a few simple clicks will give you a stunning black and white image. So I stopped using them and created my own process. In the end, it is simple in concept. It starts you off with a known black and white luminance of your choice: either Lab or grayscale or what I call measured luminance. From there, it is up to you to create the image of your vision. The process I came up with retains all color information, even when working in grayscale luminance. Therefore, you can managed black and white tone globally, locally using selections and masks, by color range, by color channel or by targeting tone itself. This process, which I named the Tone Management System, is described on my website on this page. http://www.zuberphotographics.com/page_TMSIntro.htm Also on my website is a Photoshop action that you can download that will convert your image to the black and white luminance of your choice. The important thing to remember about the action is when it is finished, you are not done. You have just begun. In my opinion, creating the final black and white image is up to us, and not software. On the website is a sunset image where I explain step-by- step how I turned it into black and white. Hope this helps. Thomas --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "brad1gold" <brad@b...> wrote: > > I am printing on a 2200 with MIS inks. Regarding conversions to > grayscale from RGB files, what are the virtues of using B&W > conversion plug-ins such as offered by Fred Miranda, PhotoRetouche > or The Imaging Company's "Convert to Black and White" opposed to the > various techniques for making the conversion within CS?