Digital BW, The Print

If I want to get serious about using QTR or IJC/OPM it sounds more and
more like I'll need to buy a densitometer or spectrometer but which
one?  A spectrometer measures color along with density too right?  A
densitometer would be used for B&W only right?  There are enough
manufacturers and models out there to really confuse me, Eye-one,
Macbeth, X-Rite and the price range is huge.  Maybe a scanner is what
I should start with.  Where can I get educated on this?

Thanks,

Tom

Tom,

IJC/OPM can automatically import scanner data directly during 
linearization.  I'm not sure about QTR.  It works pretty well, but 
won't be quite as accurate as a spectrophotometer or densitometer.

A spectrophotometer gets a little expensive, but has a lot of other 
uses.  I love mine and wouldn't trade it for anything, but it is a 
big investment.  I used it all the time, for monitor profiling, 
building color printer profiles, measuring color chips and light 
values, etc.  I have the Eye One with Profile Maker Pro.  The Eye One 
Photo package is much more reasonable but doesn't do CMYK and has a 
few limitations, but still does a lot.  Spectro's don't directly read 
density, but you can convert L* to density with a conversion chart.  
IJC/OPM accepts L* data directly, and maybe QTR does too.  I also 
like reading Lab values, since it tells me precisely what colors to 
correct when building a neutral profile.  

I don't have a densitometer (others may wish to chime in here).  
These will work fine with either IJC/OPM or QTR for linearization, 
but you can't build ICC profiles with one.  You may be able to pick 
one up on eBay for a couple hundred dollars.  For my needs, a 
spectrophotometer is a better fit.

If you buy IJC/OPM, you can try automatic scanner based linearization 
and see how it works for you.  

Regards, Lou

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband" 
<thusband@s...> wrote:
> 
> If I want to get serious about using QTR or IJC/OPM it sounds more 
and
> more like I'll need to buy a densitometer or spectrometer but which
> one?  A spectrometer measures color along with density too right?  A
> densitometer would be used for B&W only right?  There are enough
> manufacturers and models out there to really confuse me, Eye-one,
> Macbeth, X-Rite and the price range is huge.  Maybe a scanner is 
what

> I should start with.  Where can I get educated on this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom

Having just gone through this I would bite the bullet on an Eye One Photo ie
a spectrometer.  You get good screen calibration, colour printer calibration
and B&W calibration.  Given B&W is never purely neutral it is often useful
to be able to read the hue.  I figured it was a big hit but a worse scenario
would be finding that the densimeter didn't cut it for me at a later date.

> From: Tom Husband <thusband@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:38:17 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Spectrometer or Densitometer?
> 
> 
> 
> If I want to get serious about using QTR or IJC/OPM it sounds more and
> more like I'll need to buy a densitometer or spectrometer but which
> one?  A spectrometer measures color along with density too right?  A
> densitometer would be used for B&W only right?  There are enough
> manufacturers and models out there to really confuse me, Eye-one,
> Macbeth, X-Rite and the price range is huge.  Maybe a scanner is what
> I should start with.  Where can I get educated on this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom
>

I bought a used Xrite DTP32R for under US$200 on ebay.  Works great,
especially since it reads an entire strip on its own.  This ability
makes using IJC slightly more difficult: the test target format the
DTP32 needs is not exactly what IJC prints, so I print my own test
target in OPM with a version of my profile that has a straight-line
linearizer curve.  But, I think it is faster and easier to get all 26
readings than reading one spot at a time.

I've asked Joe for a DTP32 compatible target in IJC/OPM, but haven't
heard when this would be supported.

If you just use QTR, I created a step-wedge file that is DTP32
compatible that I can email you.

I think others use the Xrite 810.

-Keith




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband"
<thusband@s...> wrote:
> 
> If I want to get serious about using QTR or IJC/OPM it sounds more
and
> more like I'll need to buy a densitometer or spectrometer but which
> one?  A spectrometer measures color along with density too right?  A
> densitometer would be used for B&W only right?  There are enough
> manufacturers and models out there to really confuse me, Eye-one,
> Macbeth, X-Rite and the price range is huge.  Maybe a scanner is
what

> I should start with.  Where can I get educated on this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom

A little update  -
 
I took three of the 2200 IJC profiles and linerized them for my 9600 using the scanner.  The results are very good.  Technically the linerization would probably be be better using a dedicated instrument.  But, I'm not sure the difference would actually show up in most prints.
 
I went from existing 2200 EEM profiles to EEM for the 9600.  Getting to other papers without proper instrumentation may not provide the same level of satisfaction.
 
If there were existing profiles for my papers, even in 2200 profiles, I would feel pretty comfortable not having anything more than a desitometer to work with.  But, tweaking for tone/color cast is probably going to dictate more expensive alternatives.
 
The long and short of it is that IJC/OPM is pretty impressive.
 
Tom Baker

Louis Dina <lbdina@comcast.net> wrote:


Tom,

IJC/OPM can automatically import scanner data directly during 
linearization. I'm not sure about QTR. It works pretty well, but 
won't be quite as accurate as a spectrophotometer or densitometer.

A spectrophotometer gets a little expensive, but has a lot of other 
uses. I love mine and wouldn't trade it for anything, but it is a 
big investment. I used it all the time, for monitor profiling, 
building color printer profiles, measuring color chips and light 
values, etc. I have the Eye One with Profile Maker Pro. The Eye One 
Photo package is much more reasonable but doesn't do CMYK and has a 
few limitations, but still does a lot. Spectro's don't directly read 
density, but you can convert L* to density with a conversion chart. 
IJC/OPM accepts L* data directly, and maybe QTR does too. I also 
like reading Lab values, since it tells me precisely what colors to 
correct when building a neutral profile. 

I don't have a densitometer (others may wish to chime in here). 
These will work fine with either IJC/OPM or QTR for linearization, 
but you can't build ICC profiles with one. You may be able to pick 
one up on eBay for a couple hundred dollars. For my needs, a 
spectrophotometer is a better fit.

If you buy IJC/OPM, you can try automatic scanner based linearization 
and see how it works for you. 

Regards, Lou

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband" 
wrote:
> 
> If I want to get serious about using QTR or IJC/OPM it sounds more 
and
> more like I'll need to buy a densitometer or spectrometer but which
> one? A spectrometer measures color along with density too right? A
> densitometer would be used for B&W only right? There are enough
> manufacturers and models out there to really confuse me, Eye-one,
> Macbeth, X-Rite and the price range is huge. Maybe a scanner is 
what
> I should start with. Where can I get educated on this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you ONLY want something for B&W, the densitometer would save you money.
And, there are a ton of used ones around.

When I say B&W only, that means you don't want to check for a tint in the
tones, though a color densitometer would do that to a degree.

Seth 

==-----Original Message-----
==
==
==
==If I want to get serious about using QTR or IJC/OPM it sounds 
==more and more like I'll need to buy a densitometer or 
==spectrometer but which one?  A spectrometer measures color 
==along with density too right?  A densitometer would be used 
==for B&W only right?  There are enough manufacturers and 
==models out there to really confuse me, Eye-one, Macbeth, 
==X-Rite and the price range is huge.  Maybe a scanner is what 
==I should start with.  Where can I get educated on this?

Good information.  I appreciate it.

I think I'll start with a scanner and see how it goes.  I'll pull out
my old Epson 1240U and see how it works.

Tom