Digital BW, The Print

Richard, I think it is your paper and, possibly, the matte ink. I have the same setup as you and , using photo ink on Kirkland, I max out at 65%.

Ian




Message: 6         
   Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 08:27:17 -0000

   From: "aimforth" <r.tugwell@...>
Subject: QTR calibration - Ink separation question


I have printed the calibration target with 1ink levels 100, and when 
I look at the print, ink 1 black maxes out at about 45. Is this 
common. I read that it is normally around 80-85?

Windows XP, Epson 4000, QTR 2.2, UC, Matte Black, HPhotoRag

I plotted the luminance with Eyeone spectrophotometer. From step 45-
100 I get luminance readings of 18-19

Visually most other inks seem to max out at about this point as well

Any ideas or is this normal and should I proceed with curve 
creations based on this?

Cheers and thanks

Richard

Thanks Ian

 

I haven't tried using photo black on Photo Rag. I thought it was only for
glossy/lustre papers - but I'll give it a try

 

Cheers

 

  _____  

From: photoian@... [mailto:photoian@...] 
Sent: 02 March 2005 21:07
To: Group
Subject: [Digital BW] QTR Calibration

 

Richard, I think it is your paper and, possibly, the matte ink. I have the
same setup as you and , using photo ink on Kirkland, I max out at 65%.

Ian




Message: 6         
   Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 08:27:17 -0000
   From: "aimforth" <r.tugwell@...>
Subject: QTR calibration - Ink separation question


I have printed the calibration target with 1ink levels 100, and when 
I look at the print, ink 1 black maxes out at about 45. Is this 
common. I read that it is normally around 80-85?

Windows XP, Epson 4000, QTR 2.2, UC, Matte Black, HPhotoRag

I plotted the luminance with Eyeone spectrophotometer. From step 45-
100 I get luminance readings of 18-19

Visually most other inks seem to max out at about this point as well

Any ideas or is this normal and should I proceed with curve 
creations based on this?

Cheers and thanks

Richard


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Don't use PK on HPR - stick with the MK black.  What paper setting are you
using?

> From: Richard <r.tugwell@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 21:37:33 +0100
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] QTR Calibration
> 
> 
> Thanks Ian
> 
>  
> 
> I haven't tried using photo black on Photo Rag. I thought it was only for
> glossy/lustre papers - but I'll give it a try
> 
>  
> 
> Cheers
> 
>

Florian

First I assume you asking about how to use QTR create ICC and not how to use
QTR - the RIP - itself and creating your own ink curves.

Think of QTR's ICC profiling feature in exactly the same way as the colour
management workflow you are used to.  The idea is to print a patch target
without colour management but using the driver settings that you want to
profile, read the target and then drop that measurement data into QTR Create
ICC.  (With a package like PM5 these last two steps are just done together.)
Because you are profiling "greyscale" output you print a greyscale target,
or "step wedge" - the QTR download has a 51 step wedge which is used for
this process.  So you open this step wedge in PS or whatever application you
use in your workflow.  It is an untagged document and you want to Do Not
Color Management This Document (or whatever the exact wording is that PS
uses).  Print the step wedge/target with the driver and settings you wish to
profile - without colour management just like doing  colour profile.  If,
for example, you want to profile a particular QTR ink curve (or curve
combination...eg 50% warm/cold) then you'd print this target from PS with No
Color Management and then select the appropriate curve and other settings in
QTR.  You might also want to profile Epson's Adv B&W if you have a K3
printer in which case you'd select the Epson driver (still with No Color
Management out of PS), Adv B&W and the particular Epson Adv B&W settings you
want to profile.  So the target is a set of stimulus and you are going to
measure the printed output, ie the response of the particular
printer/driver/settings.  Take the printed target and measure it with
MeasureTool For each target there is a reference text file and you need to
select this reference file in MT so that it knows the nature of the target
you are going to measure.  Once you have the measurement data saved as a
text file, simply drag and drop this file onto the QTR Create ICC Profile
application.  You'll get an ICC profile and a useful information file in the
folder from which you'd dragged the original measurement data.  The ICC
profile is used in the normal fashion.  You can set up a proof with it in
PS.  When you print an image you Let Photoshop Determine Colors and use this
ICC profile and the Perceptual Intent with BPC, much in the same way as yoou
would with a colour image.  Obviously the profile is only relevant for the
particular settings (driver - QTR or Adv B&W - and settings/ink curves) you
used to print the target.  If you want to print an image with different
settings or curves you need to use a profile made with those other
settings/curves.

Your images do not need to be in the GG2.2 space - in fact, the whole point
is that the profile and CMM do the conversion from any space to the print
space (as "captured" by your stimulus-response measurements that have been
encapsulated in the profile you made).

Steve

> From: john dean <deanwork2003@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 21:36:49 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] QTR Calibration
> 
> What you do, is to assign the file grey gamma 2.2, print the grey
> target using QTR as your print driver which is being hosted by Photoshop.
> 
> When you get to the curve interface of QTR to set your curves, assign
> no curves, under Modes set to QuadTone RIP Calibration.
> 
> Now all this functions a little differently depending on the inkset
> used, for final output because different inksets were designed for
> different grey spaces. For instance with the 9600 and Ultrachomre I
> use gg 2.2 as source space while with Cone NK6 I use greymatte paper
> space as a tagged space. I suspect that when you select QTR
> Calibration Mode this is converting everything to LAB space anyway but
> I am not sure about that. You need to read all the info included in
> the  ICC Create folder. If you still have problems the place to ask
> for specific info is the yahoo QTR List.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/QuadtoneRIP/. Join it today.
> 
> John 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> "roschko_leolevin" <g.flo@...> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, 
>> 
>> I am a newbie wit B&W Printing and QTR. I know how to use
>> Colormanagement and Softproof and so on ...
>> But in B&W are things different.
>> Now I try to make a icc Profile with Profilemaker 5 and my Eye-one.
>> There is the Manual in the Eye-one Folder after installing QTR, but
>> there is nothing about printing the Test Charts.
>> Where do you print this Charts ?
>> Photoshop ?
>> which Settings do you use ?
>> 
>> thank´s for your answer
>> 
>> Florian

Thank you Steve for your answer.

But despite your explanation it´s not really clear for me how to 
print the charts, please be patient, my english isn´t verry good.
Maybe it will be the best if I start to explain my workflow when I 
calibrate my 4800 for Color printing. 
It´s quite easy, I start the Eye-One Match Software, select the 
Chart I would like to print and the Epson Driver appears.
I cancel all the Colorsettings, choose Manual Settings and there I 
switch off Colormanagement. The print comes out of the printer. You 
know the rest, measuring and creating of the icc profile...

The different thing to the QTR-Chart printing is, that I should 
print the File from PS and so I have a lot more options to choose 
from. 

I open the Chart "Leave as is", say "Print with Preview" and than 
the confusion starts. 
"Position" and "Scaled Print Size" is clear as daylight.
Than I take "Color Management" not "Output" under "Print" I 
select "Document" and under "Options" I normally take "Let Photoshop 
Determine Colors" under "Printer Profile" I coose my created icc 
Profile which I also used for Softproofing and the "Rendering 
Intent" is normally "Perceptual".
I dont use the "Black Point Compensation".

So what Printer Profile should I choose if I print out the Eye-One 
Chart ?  The Default afer "Print with Preview" is "Working Gray - 
Dot Gain 10%" is this right ?
And the Rendering Intent ?

I think it is verry important to print the File with the right 
options and therefore I try to be correct.

So I would be grateful, if you could tell me your Settings in PS if 
you print the Test Chart for Eye-One.

thank you very much,

regards 
Florian
Austria/Europe





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@...> wrote:
>
> Florian
> 
> First I assume you asking about how to use QTR create ICC and not 
how to use
> QTR - the RIP - itself and creating your own ink curves.
> 
> Think of QTR's ICC profiling feature in exactly the same way as 
the colour
> management workflow you are used to.  The idea is to print a patch 
target
> without colour management but using the driver settings that you 
want to
> profile, read the target and then drop that measurement data into 
QTR Create
> ICC.  (With a package like PM5 these last two steps are just done 
together.)
> Because you are profiling "greyscale" output you print a greyscale 
target,
> or "step wedge" - the QTR download has a 51 step wedge which is 
used for
> this process.  So you open this step wedge in PS or whatever 
application you
> use in your workflow.  It is an untagged document and you want to 
Do Not
> Color Management This Document (or whatever the exact wording is 
that PS
> uses).  Print the step wedge/target with the driver and settings 
you wish to
> profile - without colour management just like doing  colour 
profile.  If,
> for example, you want to profile a particular QTR ink curve (or 
curve
> combination...eg 50% warm/cold) then you'd print this target from 
PS with No
> Color Management and then select the appropriate curve and other 
settings in
> QTR.  You might also want to profile Epson's Adv B&W if you have a 
K3
> printer in which case you'd select the Epson driver (still with No 
Color
> Management out of PS), Adv B&W and the particular Epson Adv B&W 
settings you
> want to profile.  So the target is a set of stimulus and you are 
going to
> measure the printed output, ie the response of the particular
> printer/driver/settings.  Take the printed target and measure it 
with
> MeasureTool For each target there is a reference text file and you 
need to
> select this reference file in MT so that it knows the nature of 
the target
> you are going to measure.  Once you have the measurement data 
saved as a
> text file, simply drag and drop this file onto the QTR Create ICC 
Profile
> application.  You'll get an ICC profile and a useful information 
file in the
> folder from which you'd dragged the original measurement data.  
The ICC
> profile is used in the normal fashion.  You can set up a proof 
with it in
> PS.  When you print an image you Let Photoshop Determine Colors 
and use this
> ICC profile and the Perceptual Intent with BPC, much in the same 
way as yoou
> would with a colour image.  Obviously the profile is only relevant 
for the
> particular settings (driver - QTR or Adv B&W - and settings/ink 
curves) you
> used to print the target.  If you want to print an image with 
different
> settings or curves you need to use a profile made with those other
> settings/curves.
> 
> Your images do not need to be in the GG2.2 space - in fact, the 
whole point
> is that the profile and CMM do the conversion from any space to 
the print
> space (as "captured" by your stimulus-response measurements that 
have been
> encapsulated in the profile you made).
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: john dean <deanwork2003@...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 21:36:49 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] QTR Calibration
> > 
> > What you do, is to assign the file grey gamma 2.2, print the grey
> > target using QTR as your print driver which is being hosted by 
Photoshop.
> > 
> > When you get to the curve interface of QTR to set your curves, 
assign
> > no curves, under Modes set to QuadTone RIP Calibration.
> > 
> > Now all this functions a little differently depending on the 
inkset
> > used, for final output because different inksets were designed 
for
> > different grey spaces. For instance with the 9600 and 
Ultrachomre I
> > use gg 2.2 as source space while with Cone NK6 I use greymatte 
paper
> > space as a tagged space. I suspect that when you select QTR
> > Calibration Mode this is converting everything to LAB space 
anyway but
> > I am not sure about that. You need to read all the info included 
in
> > the  ICC Create folder. If you still have problems the place to 
ask
> > for specific info is the yahoo QTR List.
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/QuadtoneRIP/. Join it today.
> > 
> > John 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> > "roschko_leolevin" <g.flo@> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hi, 
> >> 
> >> I am a newbie wit B&W Printing and QTR. I know how to use
> >> Colormanagement and Softproof and so on ...
> >> But in B&W are things different.
> >> Now I try to make a icc Profile with Profilemaker 5 and my Eye-
one.
> >> There is the Manual in the Eye-one Folder after installing QTR, 
but

> >> there is nothing about printing the Test Charts.
> >> Where do you print this Charts ?
> >> Photoshop ?
> >> which Settings do you use ?
> >> 
> >> thank´s for your answer
> >> 
> >> Florian
>

Dear friends:
Following the calibration instructions I printed the first Ink pattern with the slider in 100% position. The second print in the 35% position but not change can be appreciate even in the 1% position.
The pattern is very dark and no difference in density after the 40% step.
I will appreciate yours advises.
Augusto Marcuzzi

Epson 1410 (1400)
UT14 
QTR 2.7