Digital BW, The Print

I don't know if Nick is still active on this list but here goes.

I have similar reasoning and methods for inkjet coating and have 
incorporated some of the techniques he mentioned on this list last 
august. One of those was spraying a coat of Print Shield on the print 
before coating with Liquitex acrylic varnish.

However, I am beginning to think that the combination of Print Shield 
and this varnish causes yellowing. At this point I am far from 
convinced that this is true, but I think I have eliminated other 
variables and the only similiarity I can seem to find in some images I 
have printed that have yellowed after only a few months is this 
combination.

I have a couple of prints that seem to have warmed up since 
October/November stored in a stack of archival prints in my office.  A 
client called me the other day to say that their print (yet to be 
framed) had "turned yellow" I haven't seen it yet, but should get it 
next week.

Any experience or informed speculation would be appreciated.

FYI

Hanemuhele Photo Rag 308
Epson 7600
MIS UT7 inks
QTR - Mac
Premier art print shield
Liquitex Acrylic Medium and Varnish - Gloss
mixed with Distilled water and a small amount of Liquitex Acrylic 
Medium - Matte

Well it shouldn't be the paper. Photo Rag shouldn't yellow for a long 
time unless exposed to some plasticisers, even then might take years.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, James Haney 
<jhaney@l...> wrote:
> I don't know if Nick is still active on this list but here goes.
> 
> I have similar reasoning and methods for inkjet coating and have 
> incorporated some of the techniques he mentioned on this list last 
> august. One of those was spraying a coat of Print Shield on the 
print 
> before coating with Liquitex acrylic varnish.
> 
> However, I am beginning to think that the combination of Print 
Shield 
> and this varnish causes yellowing. At this point I am far from 
> convinced that this is true, but I think I have eliminated other 
> variables and the only similiarity I can seem to find in some 
images I 
> have printed that have yellowed after only a few months is this 
> combination.
> 
> I have a couple of prints that seem to have warmed up since 
> October/November stored in a stack of archival prints in my 
office.  A 
> client called me the other day to say that their print (yet to be 
> framed) had "turned yellow" I haven't seen it yet, but should get 
it 

> next week.
> 
> Any experience or informed speculation would be appreciated.
> 
> FYI
> 
> Hanemuhele Photo Rag 308
> Epson 7600
> MIS UT7 inks
> QTR - Mac
> Premier art print shield
> Liquitex Acrylic Medium and Varnish - Gloss
> mixed with Distilled water and a small amount of Liquitex Acrylic 
> Medium - Matte

Hi James,

I did experiment with Liquitex a bit early on but since I discovered
the line of Golden Paints acrylic that flows more evenly on the print
with less shrinkage I quit using it. PrintShield I have never used so
I really can't say anything about it. Now if it's designed to block
out UV then chances are it may have some yellowing characteristic.

One thing that I found that yellows your print is the UVLS additive
that might be in your coating solutions. I don't know if the Liquitex
varnish or PrintShield you use has it but if it does that might exlain
it. Perhaps the yellowing is more pronounced in color prints than in
black and white.

Sofar the sprays I use haven't caused any yellowing but I must watch
for the new spray that I like alot: Golden Mineral Spirit Acrylic with
UVLS. Golden spec sheet for this material claims that it resists
yellowing but I haven't used long enough to tell. Now why doesn't
Golden make this varnish without UVLS?

This coating really gives you incredible dmax and overall much broader
color gamut. It might be a good idea to let your test charts age a
couple months before profiling. I will do a test myself to see how a
test strip change over time with the coating.

--nick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, James Haney
<jhaney@l...> wrote:

> I don't know if Nick is still active on this list but here goes.
> 
> I have similar reasoning and methods for inkjet coating and have 
> incorporated some of the techniques he mentioned on this list last 
> august. One of those was spraying a coat of Print Shield on the print 
> before coating with Liquitex acrylic varnish.
> 
> However, I am beginning to think that the combination of Print Shield 
> and this varnish causes yellowing. At this point I am far from 
> convinced that this is true, but I think I have eliminated other 
> variables and the only similiarity I can seem to find in some images I 
> have printed that have yellowed after only a few months is this 
> combination.
> 
> I have a couple of prints that seem to have warmed up since 
> October/November stored in a stack of archival prints in my office.  A 
> client called me the other day to say that their print (yet to be 
> framed) had "turned yellow" I haven't seen it yet, but should get it 
> next week.
> 
> Any experience or informed speculation would be appreciated.
> 
> FYI
> 
> Hanemuhele Photo Rag 308
> Epson 7600
> MIS UT7 inks
> QTR - Mac
> Premier art print shield
> Liquitex Acrylic Medium and Varnish - Gloss
> mixed with Distilled water and a small amount of Liquitex Acrylic 
> Medium - Matte

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, James Haney <jhaney@l...> wrote:
> I don't know if Nick is still active on this list but here goes.

Dang! When I saw this topic, I thought we were going to hear about how someone coated Nick Nugent...

Is he any realtion to the Detroit area Nugents, like Ted?

Ciao!

Joe

Unfortunately, yellowing has plagued the coatings and lacquers historically.
That's one reason I'm very reluctant to use something that does not have
either a good Wilhelm test or other evidence or reputation for
non-yellowing.

Nick, what airbrush system did you find worked best?

A Premier Imaging contact says they've found a CO2 cartridge powered sprayer
that works well, but I have not been able to get a product name from them.

Getting a fine spray with reasonable coverage seems to be one of the tricks
with water-based coatings.  I tried the Preval, but it didn't work.  The
local paint expert is now a fan of Crown's aerosol "Spra-tool" (Aervoe
Industries) for small jobs (and cheap people like me).  I'll give one of
these a try this week, hopefully.  It has different nozzles and more higher
pressure than most systems.  We'll see.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul,

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Unfortunately, yellowing has plagued the coatings and lacquers 
> historically. That's one reason I'm very reluctant to use something 
> that does not have either a good Wilhelm test or other evidence or 
> reputation for non-yellowing.

Yes. Certain varnish and lacquer do have reputation for yellowing.
Using the acrylic polymer alone (such as Golden GAC 500 or 700)
increases color depth but not as much as a top coat of resin based
varnish which also adds strength.

I'm experimenting with Krylon Matte Finish which dulls the shiny top
coat without significant reduction in color depth.

> Nick, what airbrush system did you find worked best? A Premier 
> Imaging contact says they've found a CO2 cartridge powered sprayer
> that works well, but I have not been able to get a product name
> from them.

I use an Iwata HP-BCS airbrush with a relatively weak Iwata Studio
Series Sprintjet. It does a good job for the initial water-based
sealing of the media. Within 15 minutes I can use the foam brayer to
apply the same liquid at a much faster rate. I don't remember exactly
how much I paid for it but it was a good deal when the package was on
sale at a local art supply store, for maybe about $175 for both the
compressor and the airbrush.

After finish using the airbrush I just remove the bottle and spray
with the water faucet running into its inlet to flush it. There is
virtually no cleaning afterward. Every 3 months or so, depending on
how much use, when the flow becomes rather restricted, I just use a
needle to clean out built up acrylic and it works like new again.

Badger makes a cheap CO2 spray assembly for about $25. I think you can
get it at dickblick.com. The compressed air can get depleted so
quickly though.

> Getting a fine spray with reasonable coverage seems to be one of
> the tricks with water-based coatings.  I tried the Preval, but it 
> didn't work.  The local paint expert is now a fan of Crown's aerosol 
> "Spra-tool" (Aervoe Industries) for small jobs (and cheap people 
> like me).  I'll give one of these a try this week, hopefully.  It 
> has different nozzles and more higher pressure than most systems.  
> We'll see.

The trick is in proper dilution of the liquid to be dispensed. You
need to add airbrush medium or transparent extender for spraying. This
is alot easier and safer than any darkroom mixing.

I think the Spra-tool should work just fine if you prepare your
solution properly. And replace the compressed air tank when the spray
gets kind of thin.

--nick

When I started my tests with Golden water-based acrylic I decided 
that it would be foolish to go and buy a Sharpe HVLP gun and just 
used a Preval unit. It gave good results if I diluted the varnish 
with distilled water, 2+1 (2 varnish + 1 water, as suggested by 
Golden in their literature) and added four drops of wetting agent 
per jar. Paper: Kokopelli Photo Gloss and Ilford Galerie Smooth 
Glossy; ink: Septone.

However, I also tried rolling varnish onto those papers. I found 
that this worked at 9+1 and about the same amount of wetting agent, 
so that is what I do at the moment. I was concerned that the first 
coat would smear the ink, but it didn't. For matte papers I just use 
a brush.

Best, Helen

Nick,

Interesting to hear your feedback.

I got the yellowed print yesterday and it is pretty strange.

Observations:

8 1/2 x 11 inch page image 5x7 centered in the page.

The paper had yellowed only on the image side, not on the back.

The paper was yellow over the entire surface but not evenly. There were 
patches of white area running vertically down the page near the edge. 
It looked like things I have seen where a highly acidic paper had been 
lain on another page over time.

This leads me to think that it is neither the spray nor the varnish, 
which were both applied very evenly. It seems more likely to me that 
the problem lies in the coating or storage of the paper. I have all of 
my paper in the box it came in from Ink Jet Art.

The print in question is one of the last ones I did last fall and I 
looked back through my stacks of images for the last several months and 
did not see any of this effect.

Finally, it has only happened on the letter size images, not other 
sizes. I think I got a badly coated few sheets in a box.


Other thoughts:

Since you have moved on to Golden Varnish, perhaps you could lend me 
the benefit of your experience in finding my own way.

Issues I have found with the Liquitex combination:

The Speedball brayer (black rubber) leaves little black particles which 
look like tiny hairs in the varnish
- I have started using small foam paint rollers.

The varnish dries so fast that you can't fix problems like debris or 
slight variations in finish.

No matter the dilution I end up with bubbles that create problems once 
in a while

I really like the look of the rolled on finish versus brushed on.

Hi James,

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
James Haney <jhaney@l...> wrote:
> The paper was yellow over the entire surface but
> not evenly. There were patches of white area
> running vertically down the page near the edge. It
> looked like things I have seen where a highly
> acidic paper had been lain on another page over
> time.

I have seen the yellowing caused by UVLS but it's
an overall faint color shift toward yellow which is
correctable by profiling. Does the yellow you see
appear excessive?

> This leads me to think that it is neither the spray
> nor the varnish, which were both applied very
> evenly. It seems more likely to me that the problem
> lies in the coating or storage of the paper. I have
> all of my paper in the box it came in from Ink Jet
> Art.

I would think so, too. I'm interested in knowing
what might be the source of the problem.

> Other thoughts:
> 
> Since you have moved on to Golden Varnish, perhaps
> you could lend me the benefit of your experience in
> finding my own way.

Sure. Helen Bach also seems to have some experience
with Golden Acrylic. I think Liquitex is fine for
large scale mural work, but for coating inkjet prints
I think the line of Golden Acrylic is best.

> Issues I have found with the Liquitex combination:
> 
> The Speedball brayer (black rubber) leaves little
> black particles which look like tiny hairs in the
> varnish - I have started using small foam paint
> rollers.

The black particles came from the manufacturing process.
I think some initial washing of the brayer or rolling 
it over some tacky papers should fix the problem.

> The varnish dries so fast that you can't fix
> problems like debris or slight variations in
> finish.

Add a retarder to the solution to slow the drying. You
must be talking about the Liquitex medium & varnish?

> No matter the dilution I end up with bubbles that
> create problems once in a while.

This is not the case with Golden GAC 500. In a
previous posting I shared a technique where you
use a soft dry brush and run across the surface
you just rolled on. The brush will magically
pick up all bubbles without leaving any marks.

> I really like the look of the rolled on finish
> versus brushed on.

Yes. The finish goes on much more evenly with the
roller. Also it doesn't go on as thick causing
too much sheen. Paper texture is preserved better
with the roller.

You seem to take this approach much further than I
do  :)  I'm still working on the aesthetic of
coating but haven't arrived yet at an approach
which I think looks the best. I'm getting close
though. It's somewhere between fogging and full
liquid lamination of the media where I get good
saturation with minimal sheen.

--nick

On Mar 21, 2005, at 1:30 PM, Nick H. Nugent wrote:
>>
>
> I have seen the yellowing caused by UVLS but it's
> an overall faint color shift toward yellow which is
> correctable by profiling. Does the yellow you see
> appear excessive?

Definitely, it is the color of a manilla envelope, not an overall tint, 
but a stain.
>
> The black particles came from the manufacturing process.
> I think some initial washing of the brayer or rolling
> it over some tacky papers should fix the problem.

I clean the roller, I roll it on tacky paper, I put a light coat of 
varnish on it a roll it on a blank waste sheet of paper... All help, 
but do not eliminate the problem.

>
> Add a retarder to the solution to slow the drying. You
> must be talking about the Liquitex medium & varnish?

That is a good idea.

>
>> No matter the dilution I end up with bubbles that
>> create problems once in a while.
>
> This is not the case with Golden GAC 500. In a
> previous posting I shared a technique where you
> use a soft dry brush and run across the surface
> you just rolled on. The brush will magically
> pick up all bubbles without leaving any marks.

Unfortunately, brushing eliminates the slight texturing of the varnish 
imparted by the roller. I don't mind it so much, but my wife and my 
clients definitely prefer the rolled on look.

Thanks for your input, I will give the Golden Varnish a try.

What specific product are you using?


James

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, James Haney
<jhaney@l...> wrote:
> Definitely, it is the color of a manilla envelope, not an overall 
> tint, but a stain.

Great. As long as it's not the coating.

> I clean the roller, I roll it on tacky paper, I
> put a light coat of varnish on it a roll it on a
> blank waste sheet of paper... All help, but do
> not eliminate the problem.

Hmmm... I'd better start looking at paint rollers
then. Thanks.

> Unfortunately, brushing eliminates the slight
> texturing of the varnish imparted by the roller.
> I don't mind it so much, but my wife and my >
> clients definitely prefer the rolled on look.

I'm talking about very gently running the brush
across the surface to pick up foam. No heavy
brushing at all. However with Golden acrylic with
proper dilution all foam will disappear as the
coating dries, no need for brushing.

> Thanks for your input, I will give the Golden
> Varnish a try. What specific product are you
> using?

MSA (Miniral Spirit Acrylic) Gloss in the aerosol
can. That's about the easiest way to get solvent
based varnish on. One thing about it is I haven't
fully worked out is the UVLS stuff in it.

--nick

Hi Helen,

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "helen_bach2003"
<helenbach@h...> wrote:
> However, I also tried rolling varnish onto those papers. I found 
> that this worked at 9+1 and about the same amount of wetting agent, 
> so that is what I do at the moment. I was concerned that the first 
> coat would smear the ink, but it didn't. For matte papers I just
use 
> a brush.

What type of varnish do you roll on your prints? Is is solvent or
water based? If it's solvent based I just worry about the cleaning up.

About coating matte papers, yes, most of the time you're ok, but all
matte papers are not created equal and some do rub off more easily. As
a rule I always spray on a thin coat and let it dry, then I can
brush or roll stuff on it. The initial spray will protect even the
most sensitive of glossy media, swellable polymer or micro porous
media that tend to blister under solvent spray.

This method appears to work for Joe D. (as posted by
xspamxken.schuster in a later thread). Joe D.'s method definitely
allows him to coat lots more prints at a faster rate. At this point in
my experiments I find the rollers work out much better in terms of
both application and clean up. For solvent based varnish, the spray
can is the way to go. And when applied thinly on top of a water based
isolation coat it increases color saturation tremendously.

--nick

"Nick H. Nugent" <nghin@p...> wrote:
 
> What type of varnish do you roll on your prints? Is is solvent or
> water based? 

Hi Nick,

I switched from solvent-based coatings to Golden water-based polymer 
varnish after reading Stephen Livick's reports. Septone ink on 
glossy paper (Kokopelli Photo Gloss or Ilford Galerie Smooth Glossy) 
is poorly fixed, and heavy-handed spraying can cause the ink to run, 
even on a flat surface. I expected to have a problem with a roller 
if I didn't put a light spray coat down first, but found that I 
could roll the first coat, if I was careful.

Best,
Helen

Hi Helen,

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "helen_bach2003"
<helenbach@h...> wrote:
> I switched from solvent-based coatings to Golden water-based
> polymer varnish after reading Stephen Livick's reports. ...

I happen to work very close to a Utrecht art suplly store so that was
where I picked up my first bottle of Liquitex gloss medium and
varnish. Then in further research I read about Golden acrylic and
found the store also carry a full section of all different types of
them. A Golden Paints rep helped me discover the use of various
polymers such as GAC 500, 700, etc. to use as the base coating.

I was thrilled to see how easy the GAC goes on almost anything. No
runs, with minimal shrinkage. Then you have a choice of water or
solvent based polymer varnish to apply as the final coat.

The beauty of the underlying acrylic isolation coat is it gives no
discoloration in terms of yellowing of the substrate. It's the varnish
that causes mild yellowing if it comes in direct contact with the
inkjet paper itself.

So after laying down an initial coat of GAC 500 using an airbrush (as
you said a roller might work, too), I lay on a thicker coat of the
same polymer using a roller, then a thin coat of an incredibly clear
Golden polymer that boosts color saturation like nothing you have ever
seen: Golden self leveling acrylic diluted for brushing. This coat
really seals the surface so UVLS cannot interact with the paper. Then
I use either Golden MSA or polymer gloss varnish.

This sounds like a lot of work but it's all water based so it's not
much trouble at all. The only solvent I might use is from an aerosol
spray can, but I might not use it after all. In the end you get a very
well protected print with maximum color gamut or dynamic range.

The only problem at the end is you end up with a very glossy surface
which I find unappealing. I found Krylon Matte Finish does a good job
at reducing this gloss with very little reduction in saturation.

Coating glossy prints is actually more difficult than coating matte
prints but I'll share my insights in a future posting.

--nick

Nick,

Thanks for the advice about GAC as a base coat. I will get some 
tomorrow and try it.

Best, Helen