Digital BW, The Print

Hi

I'd like to hear from somebody who uses or has used the Lyson Quad
Black ink or another manufactures B&W inkset in a Canon I9100 or in an 
Epson 2200. Through a unique series of events I have both printers. I 
am seriously considering dedicating one of them to Black & White 
printing. Thinking about using the Canon for color and the Epson for 
Black & White, but that is flexible.

Would like to use a Black & White ink set, perhaps Lyson Quad Black.

Would like to hear from somebody who has recent experience in using a 
black & white inkset in either or both printers. Particularly 
interested in the quality of the prints, longevity, and any problems 
with the setup and use. Not sure if I will use cartridges or their 
bulk feed system.

I live in the US near Chicago, so I have excellent supply houses in 
easy reach

Thanks

PV

Do yourself a favour ... go to http://www.harrington.com , scroll down 
to the bottom and follow the link for QuadTone RIP.

Download the software, run the installer and check out the b/w results 
you get by using it with the 2200 and standard Ultrachrome inks.

Then pay for it if you use it, a whopping 50 USD. I've only tested it on 
a borrowed 2200 and have been able to compare with MIS Carbon inks on 
another printer. QTR is very, very nice. No hassle with other inks, you 
can print both color and black and white on the same printer with 
beautiful results in both cases.

Daniel Ridings
http://www.dlridings.com/paw2005

paulvtt wrote:

> 
> Hi
> 
> I'd like to hear from somebody who uses or has used the Lyson Quad
> Black ink or another manufactures B&W inkset in a Canon I9100 or in an 
> Epson 2200. Through a unique series of events I have both printers. I 
> am seriously considering dedicating one of them to Black & White 
> printing. Thinking about using the Canon for color and the Epson for 
> Black & White, but that is flexible.
> 
> Would like to use a Black & White ink set, perhaps Lyson Quad Black.
> 
> Would like to hear from somebody who has recent experience in using a 
> black & white inkset in either or both printers. Particularly 
> interested in the quality of the prints, longevity, and any problems 
> with the setup and use. Not sure if I will use cartridges or their 
> bulk feed system.
> 
> I live in the US near Chicago, so I have excellent supply houses in 
> easy reach
> 
> Thanks
> 
> PV

I have used MIS inks (but not Lyson)in an Epson C86.  The results are 
neutral b&w prints.  Since that worked out well, I have ordered a set 
of black inks and refillable cartridges for the 2200, thinking that 6 
variations of black will be even better than 4.  Daniel says save 
yourself trouble and download QuadToneRIP.  Worth a try. If you can 
understand how to run it you get what sound like wonderful results 
for $50.  If you can't run it, you don't have to pay.  I never could 
run it, so have gone to the MIS inks. . . Edward --- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Ridings 
<daniel.ridings@e...> wrote:
> Do yourself a favour ... go to http://www.harrington.com , scroll 
down 
> to the bottom and follow the link for QuadTone RIP.
> 
> Download the software, run the installer and check out the b/w 
results 
> you get by using it with the 2200 and standard Ultrachrome inks.
> 
> Then pay for it if you use it, a whopping 50 USD. I've only tested 
it on 
> a borrowed 2200 and have been able to compare with MIS Carbon inks 
on 
> another printer. QTR is very, very nice. No hassle with other inks, 
you 
> can print both color and black and white on the same printer with 
> beautiful results in both cases.
> 
> Daniel Ridings
> http://www.dlridings.com/paw2005
> 
> paulvtt wrote:
> > 
> > Hi
> > 
> > I'd like to hear from somebody who uses or has used the Lyson Quad
> > Black ink or another manufactures B&W inkset in a Canon I9100 or 
in an 
> > Epson 2200. Through a unique series of events I have both 
printers. I 
> > am seriously considering dedicating one of them to Black & White 
> > printing. Thinking about using the Canon for color and the Epson 
for 
> > Black & White, but that is flexible.
> > 
> > Would like to use a Black & White ink set, perhaps Lyson Quad 
Black.
> > 
> > Would like to hear from somebody who has recent experience in 
using a 
> > black & white inkset in either or both printers. Particularly 
> > interested in the quality of the prints, longevity, and any 
problems 
> > with the setup and use. Not sure if I will use cartridges or 
their 
> > bulk feed system.
> > 
> > I live in the US near Chicago, so I have excellent supply houses 
in 

> > easy reach
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > PV

I have considered dedicating my 1280 as a b/w printer for several years--since I bought my 2200.  But--I really felt that it was more difficult to keep 2 printers going with separate inks, papers, etc.  When I found out about QTR I was very excited.  I demoed it for several weeks and decided on buying it.  Not having used a 3rd party inking system for either of these printers, I can't compare, but I am very happy with QTR for the 2200 allowing me to continue printing color with my regular paper profiles and printing monotones with the papers I like with QTR.

Diane
-----------
Diane B. Fields
picnic@...
photo site  http://www.pbase.com/picnic.  

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Daniel Ridings 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Dedicating a printer to Black & White


  Do yourself a favour ... go to http://www.harrington.com , scroll down 
  to the bottom and follow the link for QuadTone RIP.

  Download the software, run the installer and check out the b/w results 
  you get by using it with the 2200 and standard Ultrachrome inks.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When you have spent £1000 on Peizography ink and paper in the last year 
and several hundred on Lyson the year before, only to find a sweet 
little program like QTR doing a better job than both, and allowing the 
printer to continue using the inks it was designed to use, it is 
difficult not to recommend this course to anyone who cares to listen. I 
am now printing on 1.3mm card, for which there is no profile in QRT, 
but getting excellent results using a combination of the profiles that 
are included with the program. It is a great solution. The alternative 
was a dedicated printer, Studio print for lots of money, and no 
gaurantee that is would be noticeably better than $50s worth of QRT.
John

Hi

I used QTR/Epson 2100/OEM inks. Great program and as other's have 
said produces excellent results. However there is a learning curve. I 
then learnt about the Bowhaus RIP OPM/IJC. This program does what QTR 
does, is more expensive but for me I found it easier to use. Still 
takes some learning !! You could also have a go at Clayton's BO 
method of printing. Very simple, cheap and requires no extra 
software. I also tried MIS UT inks in a 1160. Again good results. 
However I do not have the space for two printers, so when I bought 
the 2100, a RIP solution was the only way to go. The only problem I 
had with OEM Epson inks is that of bronzing on glossy papers. Now 
that was a big problem for me because I really like glossy B&Ws. To 
solve the bronzing I switched to a dye ink set. I do not sell prints 
so the longevity issue is not a problem for me. I'm currently using 
Lyson Fotonic inks (colour inks) with the MIS easyfill carts. The MIS 
easyfill carts are really very good. With this ink set I use OPM/IJC 
for B&W. QTR would work just as well. However you would have to be 
prepared to make your own curves/profiles for either RIP. Another 
option that Lyson have just launched with Bowhaus is their Daylight 
Darkroom inks. These are a set of B&W tonable inks for the 2100/2200 
and use the Bowhaus RIP to control them. They are dye inks and will 
print on matte and glossy papers. I have seen no test reports so far 
so how good they are is anyone's guess. However I would like to think 
they would be an improvement on their Quad Black inks. I'm currently 
waiting for a sample print from Lyson.

The choice is your.

Good luck.

Peter.

If someone writes a tutorial that would enable me to set up and use 
QRT I would gladly pay another $50 to $100 for it.  Until then, I can 
only wish . . .and continue using MIS inks.  Edward --- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wharfwalker" 
<jswhite@f...> wrote:
> 
> When you have spent £1000 on Peizography ink and paper in the last 
year 
> and several hundred on Lyson the year before, only to find a sweet 
> little program like QTR doing a better job than both, and allowing 
the 
> printer to continue using the inks it was designed to use, it is 
> difficult not to recommend this course to anyone who cares to 
listen. I 
> am now printing on 1.3mm card, for which there is no profile in 
QRT, 
> but getting excellent results using a combination of the profiles 
that 
> are included with the program. It is a great solution. The 
alternative 

> was a dedicated printer, Studio print for lots of money, and no 
> gaurantee that is would be noticeably better than $50s worth of QRT.
> John

I can speak from experience about the Lyson Quad Black inks-- I don't like them.  
Admittedly, I began using them when I first started trying to figure out my whole digital 
darkroom workflow (scanning, photoshopping, printing), so I was at the bottom of the 
learning curve.  Looking back on the experience, I can say it probably would have been 
easier if I knew then what I know now (isn't that always the case?), so my tale of woe is 
partly due to my own ignorance.

After a frustrating amount of time spent trying to follow the Lyson instructions and many 
cartridges later, I was able to produce satisfactory prints, but they left me wanting more.  
Getting a linear grayscale response from the inks using Lyson's canned ICC profiles was 
difficult, so I ended up a lot of trial and error to get prints that looked good.  This was all 
before their introduction of the Daylight Darkroom system, which appears to provide more 
control than just using canned ICC profiles.

Furthermore, the inks exhibit metamerism-- they look fairly neutral under artificial light, 
but take on a greenish cast under daylight.  I have even received their Daylight Darkroom 
sample prints, and while the printing is very nice, the inks still have that slight greenish 
look to them.

I have since discovered MIS inks and QuadToneRIP, and I'm never looking back.  I would 
imagine, however, that using QTR with the Lyson Quad Black inks would have given me the 
control I lacked using Lyson's canned ICC profiles, but ultimately, the quality of the MIS 
inks is far beyond that of the Lyson Quad Black inks.

For what it's worth, I was using an Epson Stylus Photo 870 with the Lyson inks, and now I 
use an Epson 1280 with the MIS inks.

-Steve


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "paulvtt" <paulv@w...> wrote:

> 
> Hi
> 
> I'd like to hear from somebody who uses or has used the Lyson Quad
> Black ink or another manufactures B&W inkset in a Canon I9100 or in an 
> Epson 2200. Through a unique series of events I have both printers. I 
> am seriously considering dedicating one of them to Black & White 
> printing. Thinking about using the Canon for color and the Epson for 
> Black & White, but that is flexible.
> 
> Would like to use a Black & White ink set, perhaps Lyson Quad Black.
> 
> Would like to hear from somebody who has recent experience in using a 
> black & white inkset in either or both printers. Particularly 
> interested in the quality of the prints, longevity, and any problems 
> with the setup and use. Not sure if I will use cartridges or their 
> bulk feed system.
> 
> I live in the US near Chicago, so I have excellent supply houses in 
> easy reach
> 
> Thanks
> 
> PV

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mastedward" 
<mastedward@y...> wrote:
> 
> If someone writes a tutorial that would enable me to set up and use 
> QRT .....

Edward, At which point in the setup do you fail? Some earlier versions 
of QTRgui were a bit daunting but the last version is stable and 'easy' 
to use. I can't write a tutorial because I don't know enough about it 
all, just my own system. It is XP and Epson 4000 so if that is close to 
yours let us know what the problems are.
John

Hi Edward,
Sorry to hear you had problems. You must have been one of the early ones.
I too had heard about all kinds of problems. So I was pleasantly surprized
when I downloaded it about two weeks ago to test on a printer I
temporarily had access too.

Evidently the installation procedure has changed dramatically. Now all you
do is click on an install program, choose the right printer and the
installation program does the rest.

So the latest package seems to have ironed out all the stumbling blocks of
earlier releases.

I tested on Windows XP machine if that makes any difference.

I too have an Epson C86 with the MIS UT EZ inks (warm, in my case). The
results from both are great. So when I mentioned doing a comparison, I was
comparing to the UT EZW inks. Both are great.

Daniel Ridings
http://www.dlridings.com/paw2005

> I have used MIS inks (but not Lyson)in an Epson C86.  The results are
> neutral b&w prints.  Since that worked out well, I have ordered a set
> of black inks and refillable cartridges for the 2200, thinking that 6
> variations of black will be even better than 4.  Daniel says save
> yourself trouble and download QuadToneRIP.  Worth a try. If you can
> understand how to run it you get what sound like wonderful results
> for $50.  If you can't run it, you don't have to pay.  I never could
> run it, so have gone to the MIS inks. . . Edward --- In
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Ridings
> <daniel.ridings@e...> wrote:
>> Do yourself a favour ... go to http://www.harrington.com , scroll
> down
>> to the bottom and follow the link for QuadTone RIP.
>>
>> Download the software, run the installer and check out the b/w
> results
>> you get by using it with the 2200 and standard Ultrachrome inks.
>>
>> Then pay for it if you use it, a whopping 50 USD. I've only tested
> it on
>> a borrowed 2200 and have been able to compare with MIS Carbon inks
> on
>> another printer. QTR is very, very nice. No hassle with other inks,
> you
>> can print both color and black and white on the same printer with
>> beautiful results in both cases.
>>
>> Daniel Ridings
>> http://www.dlridings.com/paw2005
>>
>> paulvtt wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > I'd like to hear from somebody who uses or has used the Lyson Quad
>> > Black ink or another manufactures B&W inkset in a Canon I9100 or
> in an
>> > Epson 2200. Through a unique series of events I have both
> printers. I
>> > am seriously considering dedicating one of them to Black & White
>> > printing. Thinking about using the Canon for color and the Epson
> for
>> > Black & White, but that is flexible.
>> >
>> > Would like to use a Black & White ink set, perhaps Lyson Quad
> Black.
>> >
>> > Would like to hear from somebody who has recent experience in
> using a
>> > black & white inkset in either or both printers. Particularly
>> > interested in the quality of the prints, longevity, and any
> problems
>> > with the setup and use. Not sure if I will use cartridges or
> their
>> > bulk feed system.
>> >
>> > I live in the US near Chicago, so I have excellent supply houses
> in
>> > easy reach
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > PV
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND
> \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Tutorial for Windows XP

1) Download
2) Click on the install program
3) Choose the right printer model (it supports many, choose the one you have)
4) Use the graphic interface to choose a file to print
5) Print

You don't have to pay. This was a freebie.

Daniel

> If someone writes a tutorial that would enable me to set up and use
> QRT I would gladly pay another $50 to $100 for it.  Until then, I can
> only wish . . .and continue using MIS inks.  Edward --- In
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wharfwalker"
> <jswhite@f...> wrote:
>>
>> When you have spent \ufffd1000 on Peizography ink and paper in the last
> year
>> and several hundred on Lyson the year before, only to find a sweet
>> little program like QTR doing a better job than both, and allowing
> the
>> printer to continue using the inks it was designed to use, it is
>> difficult not to recommend this course to anyone who cares to
> listen. I
>> am now printing on 1.3mm card, for which there is no profile in
> QRT,
>> but getting excellent results using a combination of the profiles
> that
>> are included with the program. It is a great solution. The
> alternative
>> was a dedicated printer, Studio print for lots of money, and no
>> gaurantee that is would be noticeably better than $50s worth of QRT.
>> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND
> \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I am stunned!  I followed your 5 or so steps and printed a lovely b&w 
print with the 2200 with colored inks! But what about the 17 pages of 
Tom Moore's tutorial - none of which I could do other than running 
the ink seperation test page - regarding making curves, 
linearisation, etc?  Are these optional steps?  I assume the process 
is to edit one's photo, save it in a TIFF file, and then bring it 
into the graphic interface to print it - Can it be this simple?  
Guess I'll find out as I do more printing. Thank you for taking the 
time to present your QRT tutorial, Daniel - I am grateful indeed, and 
am happy to now have reason to send Mr. Harrington his $50.  Best 
Regards,  Edward       -- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Ridings" 
<daniel.ridings@e...> wrote:
> Tutorial for Windows XP
> 
> 1) Download
> 2) Click on the install program
> 3) Choose the right printer model (it supports many, choose the one 
you have)
> 4) Use the graphic interface to choose a file to print
> 5) Print
> 
> You don't have to pay. This was a freebie.
> 
> Daniel
> 
> > If someone writes a tutorial that would enable me to set up and 
use
> > QRT I would gladly pay another $50 to $100 for it.  Until then, I 
can
> > only wish . . .and continue using MIS inks.  Edward --- In
> > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wharfwalker"
> > <jswhite@f...> wrote:
> >>
> >> When you have spent £1000 on Peizography ink and paper in the 
last
> > year
> >> and several hundred on Lyson the year before, only to find a 
sweet
> >> little program like QTR doing a better job than both, and 
allowing
> > the
> >> printer to continue using the inks it was designed to use, it is
> >> difficult not to recommend this course to anyone who cares to
> > listen. I
> >> am now printing on 1.3mm card, for which there is no profile in
> > QRT,
> >> but getting excellent results using a combination of the profiles
> > that
> >> are included with the program. It is a great solution. The
> > alternative
> >> was a dedicated printer, Studio print for lots of money, and no
> >> gaurantee that is would be noticeably better than $50s worth of 
QRT.
> >> John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> > page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner
> > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines"
in the 
Files
> > section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE
"OWNER" 
AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL
NOT BE 
LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL 
OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS 
OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO GROUP 
HAVE BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) 
THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; 
(ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR 
DATA; (iii)
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE

> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

Yes it is that simple!  Tom Moore's tutorial is about profiling and 
linearizing to your printer.  It creates profiles customized to your 
printer, ink, paper combination, but is absolutely optional.  You 
probably want to start out not using them.  As long as you are 
satified with your results, keeep doing what you are doing.  
Additionsl to the "tutorial" Daniel wrote would be to use the setting 
on the GUI.  Paper settings, etc.  The most satisfying is the curve 
settings.  Select 2 curves and blend them as you please.  You can get 
warm, cool or neutral prints by blending the curves.   It give 
remarkable control over the image tone.  Printing step wedges at 
various settings can give you a library of choices on a single page.
Keep playing and have fun.

Peter




-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mastedward" 
<mastedward@y...> wrote:
> 
> I am stunned!  I followed your 5 or so steps and printed a lovely 
b&w 
> print with the 2200 with colored inks! But what about the 17 pages 
of 
> Tom Moore's tutorial - none of which I could do other than running 
> the ink seperation test page - regarding making curves, 
> linearisation, etc?  Are these optional steps?  I assume the 
process 
> is to edit one's photo, save it in a TIFF file, and then bring it 
> into the graphic interface to print it - Can it be this simple?  
> Guess I'll find out as I do more printing. Thank you for taking the 
> time to present your QRT tutorial, Daniel - I am grateful indeed, 
and 
> am happy to now have reason to send Mr. Harrington his $50.  Best 
> Regards,  Edward       -- In 
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Ridings" 
> <daniel.ridings@e...> wrote:
> > Tutorial for Windows XP
> > 
> > 1) Download
> > 2) Click on the install program
> > 3) Choose the right printer model (it supports many, choose the 
one 
> you have)
> > 4) Use the graphic interface to choose a file to print
> > 5) Print
> > 
> > You don't have to pay. This was a freebie.
> > 
> > Daniel
> > 
> > > If someone writes a tutorial that would enable me to set up and 
> use
> > > QRT I would gladly pay another $50 to $100 for it.  Until then, 
I 
> can
> > > only wish . . .and continue using MIS inks.  Edward --- In
> > > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wharfwalker"
> > > <jswhite@f...> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> When you have spent £1000 on Peizography ink and paper in the 
> last
> > > year
> > >> and several hundred on Lyson the year before, only to find a 
> sweet
> > >> little program like QTR doing a better job than both, and 
> allowing
> > > the
> > >> printer to continue using the inks it was designed to use, it 
is
> > >> difficult not to recommend this course to anyone who cares to
> > > listen. I
> > >> am now printing on 1.3mm card, for which there is no profile in
> > > QRT,
> > >> but getting excellent results using a combination of the 
profiles
> > > that
> > >> are included with the program. It is a great solution. The
> > > alternative
> > >> was a dedicated printer, Studio print for lots of money, and no
> > >> gaurantee that is would be noticeably better than $50s worth 
of 
> QRT.
> > >> John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as
> > > they are often being updated.
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
> wish to
> > > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting 
> this same
> > > page.
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> > > them short.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames.
> > > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
the
> > > membership without notice.
> > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
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> > > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
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rules 
> and
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> group Owner
> > > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines"
> in the 
> Files
> > > section:
> > > 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > >
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> THE PRINT
> > > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE
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> AND
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> OR
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> OF
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> HAVE BEEN
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> (ii)
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> > > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT
> > > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL 
BW, 

> THE
> > > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >

Yes - I can see that by combining the left and right curves I should 
have plenty to keep me busy for some time.  And it is beautifully 
simple!  A question about resolutin settings.  When I use the 1440 or 
1440 super settings, all is fine.  If I try 2880 dpi I get an error 
message saying that QTR has encountered a problem and needs to shut 
down.  Is there a way to print with 2880 dpi?  Is it dependent on the 
file size of the photo printing?  One other question: before I 
learned that I would be able to use QTR I ordered a set of refillable 
carts and black inks from MIS for the 2200.  Is there any point in 
using these inks with QTR or is that defeating the purpose of the 
program?  If so, I guess I could purchase MIS colored inks and at 
least save money by refilling rather than replacing. . .Thanks again 
for enabling me to use this wonderful program!  Edward  --- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "zonepeter" 
<zonepeter@a...> wrote:
> 
> Yes it is that simple!  Tom Moore's tutorial is about profiling and 
> linearizing to your printer.  It creates profiles customized to 
your 
> printer, ink, paper combination, but is absolutely optional.  You 
> probably want to start out not using them.  As long as you are 
> satified with your results, keeep doing what you are doing.  
> Additionsl to the "tutorial" Daniel wrote would be to use the 
setting 
> on the GUI.  Paper settings, etc.  The most satisfying is the curve 
> settings.  Select 2 curves and blend them as you please.  You can 
get 
> warm, cool or neutral prints by blending the curves.   It give 
> remarkable control over the image tone.  Printing step wedges at 
> various settings can give you a library of choices on a single page.
> Keep playing and have fun.
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mastedward" 
> <mastedward@y...> wrote:
> > 
> > I am stunned!  I followed your 5 or so steps and printed a lovely 
> b&w 
> > print with the 2200 with colored inks! But what about the 17 
pages 
> of 
> > Tom Moore's tutorial - none of which I could do other than 
running 
> > the ink seperation test page - regarding making curves, 
> > linearisation, etc?  Are these optional steps?  I assume the 
> process 
> > is to edit one's photo, save it in a TIFF file, and then bring it 
> > into the graphic interface to print it - Can it be this simple?  
> > Guess I'll find out as I do more printing. Thank you for taking 
the 
> > time to present your QRT tutorial, Daniel - I am grateful indeed, 
> and 
> > am happy to now have reason to send Mr. Harrington his $50.  Best 
> > Regards,  Edward       -- In 
> > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Ridings" 
> > <daniel.ridings@e...> wrote:
> > > Tutorial for Windows XP
> > > 
> > > 1) Download
> > > 2) Click on the install program
> > > 3) Choose the right printer model (it supports many, choose the 
> one 
> > you have)
> > > 4) Use the graphic interface to choose a file to print
> > > 5) Print
> > > 
> > > You don't have to pay. This was a freebie.
> > > 
> > > Daniel
> > > 
> > > > If someone writes a tutorial that would enable me to set up 
and 
> > use
> > > > QRT I would gladly pay another $50 to $100 for it.  Until 
then, 
> I 
> > can
> > > > only wish . . .and continue using MIS inks.  Edward --- In
> > > > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wharfwalker"
> > > > <jswhite@f...> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> When you have spent £1000 on Peizography ink and paper in 
the 
> > last
> > > > year
> > > >> and several hundred on Lyson the year before, only to find a 
> > sweet
> > > >> little program like QTR doing a better job than both, and 
> > allowing
> > > > the
> > > >> printer to continue using the inks it was designed to use, 
it 
> is
> > > >> difficult not to recommend this course to anyone who cares to
> > > > listen. I
> > > >> am now printing on 1.3mm card, for which there is no profile 
in
> > > > QRT,
> > > >> but getting excellent results using a combination of the 
> profiles
> > > > that
> > > >> are included with the program. It is a great solution. The
> > > > alternative
> > > >> was a dedicated printer, Studio print for lots of money, and 
no
> > > >> gaurantee that is would be noticeably better than $50s worth 
> of 
> > QRT.
> > > >> John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> > resources as
> > > > they are often being updated.
> > > >
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > >
> > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
you 
> > wish to
> > > > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
> visiting 
> > this same
> > > > page.
> > > >
> > > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> > messages to keep
> > > > them short.
> > > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or 
> > flames.
> > > > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
from 
> the
> > > > membership without notice.
> > > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> > digital B&W
> > > > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> > removed from
> > > > the membership.
> > > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
> rules 
> > and
> > > > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
> > group Owner
> > > > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines"
> > in the 
> > Files
> > > > section:
> > > > 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > > >
> > > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL 
BW, 
> > THE PRINT
> > > > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE
> > "OWNER" 
> > AND
> > > > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL
> > NOT BE 
> > LIABLE TO
> > > > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL 
> > OR
> > > > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR 
> LOSS 
> > OF
> > > > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN 
> IF 
> > THE
> > > > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP 
> > HAVE BEEN
> > > > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: 
> (i) 
> > THE USE
> > > > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO 
GROUP; 
> > (ii)
> > > > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR 
> > DATA; (iii)
> > > > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE 

> > PRINT
> > > > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL 
> BW, 
> > THE
> > > > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mastedward"
<mastedward@y...> wrote:

... If I try 2880 dpi I get an error 
> message saying that QTR has encountered a problem and needs to shut 
> down.  Is there a way to print with 2880 dpi?  

Hi,

See message # 58813 -- the "2.2b" version now supports 2880dpi,
unless, of course, using using that version now...

-- Steve Alred

I owe some feedback to the group, and I'll take this oportunity.

As previuosly mentioned, I had some initial disappointing results 
with my Canon i965 + Lyson's Quad Black inks. The first prints all 
looked faint, with an horrible magenta hue on Lyson's 170gsm Matt 
InkJet paper. I tried any possible combination of profile, none 
yielding the desired results.

The kind guys from Lyson suggested not to use any profile, but just 
to print black and white images in RGB mode with minimal histogram 
adjustment. They also sent me a sample print done with their inks on 
their media, that appeared much better than my digital prints.

Just to rimind you, the Canon i965 is an A4 6 inks channels printer 
with maximum resolution of 4800 x 1200 dpi, supposed to produce 2 
picoliter ink droplets. Although not being a professional model, it 
should give pleasant and acceptable results up to A4 enlargments 
using monochrome inks such as Lyson's.

I then had precious suggestions from Howard on this forum: adding +3 
to the black, cyan, magenta and cyan sliders in the i965 driver 
finally gave richer prints, both on matte (Lyson) and glossy (Lyson, 
Canon and Ilford) papers. This solution correlates well with the 
fact that when the "photo-cyan" and "photo-magenta" tanks finished, 
the other four tanks (black, cyan, magenta and cyan) were almost 
full. Needles to say, a noozle check revealed no problem. After 
applying Howard's suggestions, the other tanks begun to be used.

I do not know if all this makes any sense. The problem is that I am 
still far from a true WYSIWYG working situation. I still have to do 
a few mini-prints in order to have an idea about what the final 
print will be. How can I know what shade of gray is managed by the 
cyan channel or by the photo magenta channel, etc? Is digital black 
and white printing still a guesswork job?

One more question I would like to ask the forum: Are there any 
alternatives to the Lyson inks (either pigment or dyes) to be used 
with my Canon i965?

Antonio


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "paulvtt" 
<paulv@w...> wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> I'd like to hear from somebody who uses or has used the Lyson Quad
> Black ink or another manufactures B&W inkset in a Canon I9100 or 
in an 
> Epson 2200. Through a unique series of events I have both 
printers. I 
> am seriously considering dedicating one of them to Black & White 
> printing. Thinking about using the Canon for color and the Epson 
for 
> Black & White, but that is flexible.
> 
> Would like to use a Black & White ink set, perhaps Lyson Quad 
Black.
> 
> Would like to hear from somebody who has recent experience in 
using a 
> black & white inkset in either or both printers. Particularly 
> interested in the quality of the prints, longevity, and any 
problems 
> with the setup and use. Not sure if I will use cartridges or their 
> bulk feed system.
> 
> I live in the US near Chicago, so I have excellent supply houses 
in 

> easy reach
> 
> Thanks
> 
> PV