Digital BW, The Print

I believe I heard it mentioned on another thread that boosting color density in the print driver (Advanced->Paper Config) translates into a boost to the ink limits. Have you given that a try?

-J-


Aris Editions
w: ariseditions.com
e: jay@...
p: 206.340.6047

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of photoian@...
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 11:36 AM
To: Group
Subject: [Digital BW] Re:DMaxEpson 4000 vs Epson 7600 (9600)


Lou, you imply that there is a refillable cart for the 4000? How do one obtain such a thing?

Ian







Message: 9         
   Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:39:40 -0000
   From: "Louis Dina" <lbdina@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: DMax Epson 4000 vs Epson 7600 (9600)


Shilesh....

What's Up?  IMO, Epson has their head planted firmly up their kazoo.  I have tried to get help, but they are worse than useless.  Epson builds their ink limits into the driver's paper settings, and for whatever reason, they set the ink limits too low on the matte paper settings in their driver.  From what I can tell, all the matte choices are all on the low side.  The glossy settings work fine and give great Dmax on my printer.

The printer can spit out enough ink, as proven when printing an ink limit chart from QTR, but the settings Epson programmed into driver are the limitation.  So, if I want better Dmax and gamut on matte papers using color inks, that means I have to spend more money for a RIP that can control ink limits (ie, NOT ImagePrint, since it hard codes ink limits into the inkset.  Perhaps the full verson of ColorBurst - not the Epson version, or StudioPrint).  

Paul Roark suggested another possible workaround, but I haven't tried it.  Put Eboni black ink into a refilliable PK cartridge and put it into the PK slot of the printer.  Then, tell the printer you are printing on glossy stock and use a glossy paper setting.  Not sure if this will work or not.  The 4000 has more sensors than Carter has pills, and it may be able to sense the paper type.  Not sure about that either.  

My 2200 gets better Dmax on matte paper with the Epson driver than my 4000 does.  But, the 4000 does better on glossy papers than the 2200.

How about sending an email to Epson asking for an update to the driver that allows more ink to the matte papers?  I'll do the same.



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Thanks for the suggestion, Jay.

Yes, I tried that, and it seemed to increase the density of the tones 
between black and paper white, but didn't seem to boost the Dmax at 
all.  The tech guy at Epson said that bumping the color density will 
not increase the total ink limit, just the intermediate densities.  
That was my experience, but I only tried one test.  It is probably 
worth revisiting to be absolutely sure.

Unless some new evidence comes to light, I have to conclude it is a 
driver limitation tied to premature ink limits programmed into their 
matte paper settings.  So, the solution is an updated driver or a RIP.

No such problem with QTR, BTW.  It lays down all the ink I need on my 
4000.  But for color on matte papers, it looks like a RIP is my only 
current solution.  The Epson 4000 driver does fine with glossy papers 
on my printer.

Lou

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Massena" 
<jay@a...> wrote:
> I believe I heard it mentioned on another thread that boosting 
color density in the print driver (Advanced->Paper Config) translates 
into a boost to the ink limits. Have you given that a try?
> 
> -J-
> 
> 
> Aris Editions
> w: ariseditions.com
> e: jay@a...
> p: 206.340.6047
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
photoian@c...
> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 11:36 AM
> To: Group
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re:DMaxEpson 4000 vs Epson 7600 (9600)
> 
> 
> Lou, you imply that there is a refillable cart for the 4000? How do 
one obtain such a thing?
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Message: 9         
>    Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:39:40 -0000
>    From: "Louis Dina" <lbdina@c...>
> Subject: Re: DMax Epson 4000 vs Epson 7600 (9600)
> 
> 
> Shilesh....
> 
> What's Up?  IMO, Epson has their head planted firmly up their 
kazoo.  I have tried to get help, but they are worse than useless.  
Epson builds their ink limits into the driver's paper settings, and 
for whatever reason, they set the ink limits too low on the matte 
paper settings in their driver.  From what I can tell, all the matte 
choices are all on the low side.  The glossy settings work fine and 
give great Dmax on my printer.
> 
> The printer can spit out enough ink, as proven when printing an ink 
limit chart from QTR, but the settings Epson programmed into driver 
are the limitation.  So, if I want better Dmax and gamut on matte 
papers using color inks, that means I have to spend more money for a 
RIP that can control ink limits (ie, NOT ImagePrint, since it hard 
codes ink limits into the inkset.  Perhaps the full verson of 
ColorBurst - not the Epson version, or StudioPrint).  
> 
> Paul Roark suggested another possible workaround, but I haven't 
tried it.  Put Eboni black ink into a refilliable PK cartridge and 
put it into the PK slot of the printer.  Then, tell the printer you 
are printing on glossy stock and use a glossy paper setting.  Not 
sure if this will work or not.  The 4000 has more sensors than Carter 
has pills, and it may be able to sense the paper type.  Not sure 
about that either.  
> 
> My 2200 gets better Dmax on matte paper with the Epson driver than 
my 4000 does.  But, the 4000 does better on glossy papers than the 
2200.
> 
> How about sending an email to Epson asking for an update to the 
driver that allows more ink to the matte papers?  I'll do the same.

> 
> I believe I heard it mentioned on another thread that boosting color
> density in the print driver (Advanced->Paper Config) translates into a
> boost to the ink limits. Have you given that a try?
> 

A few of us have tried that with the 7600 and 4000 with the Epson driver.
It does not seem to have a significant effect on the dmax.  So, it may be
that we're dealing with a characteristic of the dither and not the ink load
per se.

I may settle on a PK chip on a MK (Eboni) cart and Premium Glossy media type
even for matte paper as the best solution for my 7600.  Unfortunately, this
will not work with the 4000.

With the 4000, a rip may be the best answer.

(I'll be doing more on this after I re-load the 7600, which still has
cleaning fluid in it.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Louis Dina wrote:

>Thanks for the suggestion, Jay.
>
>Yes, I tried that, and it seemed to increase the density of the tones 
>between black and paper white, but didn't seem to boost the Dmax at 
>all.  The tech guy at Epson said that bumping the color density will 
>not increase the total ink limit, just the intermediate densities.  
>That was my experience, but I only tried one test.  It is probably 
>worth revisiting to be absolutely sure.
>
>Unless some new evidence comes to light, I have to conclude it is a 
>driver limitation tied to premature ink limits programmed into their 
>matte paper settings.  So, the solution is an updated driver or a RIP.
>
>No such problem with QTR, BTW.  It lays down all the ink I need on my 
>4000.  But for color on matte papers, it looks like a RIP is my only 
>current solution.  The Epson 4000 driver does fine with glossy papers 
>on my printer.
>
>Lou
>  
>
Lou,

You have tried all the available matte paper settings of the 4000 ?  On 
the 9000 and 10000 drivers there are differences in inklimit between the 
paper settings, the last also has some artificial paper settings (no 
reference to a paper by name) that give a lot more ink. That's what I 
once proposed they should include in the Epson drivers some paper 
settings that are not bound to a known paper but would make custom 
profiling for canvas and special papers easier. It didn't know that they 
actually did that for a driver till I bought the 10000 secondhand.

If you are using a Mac you could try Gimp-print and do the profiling in 
Photoshop, Gimp-print can probably be customised with some help. Slow as 
I understand it. Otherwise you have to get a RIP like Studioprint.

Ernst

Hi Ernst.

Yes, I have tried every matte setting in the Epson 4000 driver.  
There are some minor differences, but they are all weak and deficient 
in ink flow.  The glossy paper settings work great.  

I can overcome this with QTR for B&W, but I have concluded that my 
only solution for color prints on matte paper is a RIP, like 
StudioPrint.  It is doubtful Epson will modify their driver, but I 
intend for them to get an earful regardless.  Who knows, if enough of 
us complain, they might even do something.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Lou

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla 
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
> Louis Dina wrote:
> 
> >Thanks for the suggestion, Jay.
> >
> >Yes, I tried that, and it seemed to increase the density of the 
tones 
> >between black and paper white, but didn't seem to boost the Dmax 
at 
> >all.  The tech guy at Epson said that bumping the color density 
will 
> >not increase the total ink limit, just the intermediate 
densities.  
> >That was my experience, but I only tried one test.  It is probably 
> >worth revisiting to be absolutely sure.
> >
> >Unless some new evidence comes to light, I have to conclude it is 
a 
> >driver limitation tied to premature ink limits programmed into 
their 
> >matte paper settings.  So, the solution is an updated driver or a 
RIP.
> >
> >No such problem with QTR, BTW.  It lays down all the ink I need on 
my 
> >4000.  But for color on matte papers, it looks like a RIP is my 
only 
> >current solution.  The Epson 4000 driver does fine with glossy 
papers 
> >on my printer.
> >
> >Lou
> >  
> >
> Lou,
> 
> You have tried all the available matte paper settings of the 
4000 ?  On 
> the 9000 and 10000 drivers there are differences in inklimit 
between the 
> paper settings, the last also has some artificial paper settings 
(no 
> reference to a paper by name) that give a lot more ink. That's what 
I 
> once proposed they should include in the Epson drivers some paper 
> settings that are not bound to a known paper but would make custom 
> profiling for canvas and special papers easier. It didn't know that 
they 
> actually did that for a driver till I bought the 10000 secondhand.
> 
> If you are using a Mac you could try Gimp-print and do the 
profiling in 
> Photoshop, Gimp-print can probably be customised with some help. 
Slow as 

> I understand it. Otherwise you have to get a RIP like Studioprint.
> 
> Ernst