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Epson K3 Inkset Permanence Rating

RE: [Digital BW] Epson K3 Inkset Permanence Rating

2005-05-15 by Paul Roark

> 
> 
> http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/9800.html


The Note on the right of the introduction of the B&W section says: "The
Display Permanence Ratings given here are based on long-term testing with
the previous generation of UltraChrome inks."

So, we have no specific new B&W display life information.

The WIR note continues: "WIR testing to date with UltraChrome K3 inks
indicates that significant increases in Display Permanence Ratings for
black-and-white prints can be expected because the three-level, high-stable
carbon pigment based black inks in the UltraChrome K3 inkset largely replace
the ... color inks ..."

The introduction also notes, "The last of the Iris Graphics continuous flow,
dye-based inkjet printers originally used by Nash Editions was retired in
December 2004."

It all makes me wonder if Epson may be re-thinking its "Giclee" marketing
and predominantly "proprietary dyes and pigments" Material Safety Data Sheet
description of their black inks.  

I hope someone who buys a 2400 will supply me with a test strip to test
against the MIS UT inks as soon as possible.  That should be interesting.

Meanwhile I see Kodak has yet another new top management person. Good luck.
It's going to be hard to watch the Titanic attempt to steer away from the
iceberg with its way too small rudder.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Epson K3 Inkset Permanence Rating

2005-05-15 by Steve Kale

Footnote 1 suggests that prototype K3s were used....I think they are all
over the place and Wilhem likely is simply under pressure to support the
Epson promotion.  I have tried to get an ETA on the new printers from
Calumet here in London to no avail.  I do think I am likely to be an early
jumper on one of these - albeit I can't make my mind up as to whether the
extra size of the 4800 really is that much bigger than the 2400....
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 08:55:37 -0700
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson K3 Inkset Permanence Rating
> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/9800.html
> 
> 
> The Note on the right of the introduction of the B&W section says: "The
> Display Permanence Ratings given here are based on long-term testing with
> the previous generation of UltraChrome inks."
> 
> So, we have no specific new B&W display life information.
> 
> The WIR note continues: "WIR testing to date with UltraChrome K3 inks
> indicates that significant increases in Display Permanence Ratings for
> black-and-white prints can be expected because the three-level, high-stable
> carbon pigment based black inks in the UltraChrome K3 inkset largely replace
> the ... color inks ..."
> 
> The introduction also notes, "The last of the Iris Graphics continuous flow,
> dye-based inkjet printers originally used by Nash Editions was retired in
> December 2004."
> 
> It all makes me wonder if Epson may be re-thinking its "Giclee" marketing
> and predominantly "proprietary dyes and pigments" Material Safety Data Sheet
> description of their black inks.
> 
> I hope someone who buys a 2400 will supply me with a test strip to test
> against the MIS UT inks as soon as possible.  That should be interesting.
> 
> Meanwhile I see Kodak has yet another new top management person. Good luck.
> It's going to be hard to watch the Titanic attempt to steer away from the
> iceberg with its way too small rudder.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Epson K3 Inkset Permanence Rating

2005-05-15 by Paul Roark

Steve,

One could also read the WIR notes as indicating the "new" UC K3 inks are
basically just UC inks, with the addition of the LLK and a lot of hype.

Personally, I think the 2400 would be high on my list, but I'm going to wait
for a dual K large format machine.  The black ink changing may be fine for a
service bureau, but not for the type of printing I do.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m] On Behalf Of Steve
> Kale
> Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:18 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson K3 Inkset Permanence Rating
> 
> Footnote 1 suggests that prototype K3s were used....I think they are all
> over the place and Wilhem likely is simply under pressure to support the
> Epson promotion.  I have tried to get an ETA on the new printers from
> Calumet here in London to no avail.  I do think I am likely to be an early
> jumper on one of these - albeit I can't make my mind up as to whether the
> extra size of the 4800 really is that much bigger than the 2400....
> 
> 
> > From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@verizon.net>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 08:55:37 -0700
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson K3 Inkset Permanence Rating
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/9800.html
> >
> >
> > The Note on the right of the introduction of the B&W section says: "The
> > Display Permanence Ratings given here are based on long-term testing
> with
> > the previous generation of UltraChrome inks."
> >
> > So, we have no specific new B&W display life information.
> >
> > The WIR note continues: "WIR testing to date with UltraChrome K3 inks
> > indicates that significant increases in Display Permanence Ratings for
> > black-and-white prints can be expected because the three-level, high-
> stable
> > carbon pigment based black inks in the UltraChrome K3 inkset largely
> replace
> > the ... color inks ..."
> >
> > The introduction also notes, "The last of the Iris Graphics continuous
> flow,
> > dye-based inkjet printers originally used by Nash Editions was retired
> in
> > December 2004."
> >
> > It all makes me wonder if Epson may be re-thinking its "Giclee"
> marketing
> > and predominantly "proprietary dyes and pigments" Material Safety Data
> Sheet
> > description of their black inks.
> >
> > I hope someone who buys a 2400 will supply me with a test strip to test
> > against the MIS UT inks as soon as possible.  That should be
> interesting.
> >
> > Meanwhile I see Kodak has yet another new top management person. Good
> luck.
> > It's going to be hard to watch the Titanic attempt to steer away from
> the
> > iceberg with its way too small rudder.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Digital BW] Epson K3 Inkset Permanence Rating

2005-05-15 by Steve Kale

Hi Paul

Well it certainly is easy to be cautious re the new inks.  My first printer
was the 2100 and I was simply amazed at what it could achieve but rather
quickly I become disappointed with the matte paper blacks and the photo
paper finish.  Disappointed in a very relative sense!

It would seem to me that if a high quality photo paper finish can be
achieved with a dMax of over 2.3 then the matte papers are in trouble and
the ink switching issue is lessened considerably.  (I suspect I have wasted
much more ink due to poor MIS carts although at least the ink is a lot
cheaper to begin with.)  If they really have killed the bronzing/gloss
differential issue it is going to be great.  Time will tell as to whether
the early fluff has substance.

On another note I think all potential purchasers of these printers in the UK
need to unite and complain to Epson re their pricing.  The 4800 has an MSRP
of £1,756 (incl VAT).  That's almost the USD price but with a £ sign instead
of a $ sign.  Don't they know £1.00=$1.85...

Cheers

Steve
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 09:56:57 -0700
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson K3 Inkset Permanence Rating
> 
> Steve,
> 
> One could also read the WIR notes as indicating the "new" UC K3 inks are
> basically just UC inks, with the addition of the LLK and a lot of hype.
> 
> Personally, I think the 2400 would be high on my list, but I'm going to wait
> for a dual K large format machine.  The black ink changing may be fine for a
> service bureau, but not for the type of printing I do.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Kodak = Titanic: not.

2005-05-15 by Djon

Kodak turned the digital corner a long time ago, its future as a
digital player is assured.
 
Kodak became the biggest digital player as early as 1980...I saw 
their digital B&W high speed recording camera (for mechanical
engineering research) at a PMA show in Las Vegas back then. It was
$10K...cheaper and faster than film cameras and of course much cheaper
to operate. This camera eventually killed off estar-based high speed
recording film, such as the beloved 2475.

Kodak dominates the 4/3 chip manufacturing format in partnership with
Fuji...IMO that format will win in the end, rather than APS or full
frame 2X3, because it allows physically smaller/cheaper cameras/lenses
(like Olympus, which uses Kodak/Fuji chip).

Digital Ice is a Kodak baby.

In the most recent Calumet catalog a letter from the president 
vaguely semi-assures us that they will sort of continue to somewhat
try to provide B&W traditional materials as long as feasible, sort of.
My best local E6 lab has posted a similarly vague statement on EK
letterhead. 

EK shareholders will be happy to see the last nail driven in the  coffin.


Djon

 
> 
> Meanwhile I see Kodak has yet another new top management person.
Good luck.
> It's going to be hard to watch the Titanic attempt to steer away
from the
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> iceberg with its way too small rudder.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Epson K3 Inkset Permanence Rating

2005-05-15 by Ernst Dinkla

Paul Roark wrote:

>One could also read the WIR notes as indicating the "new" UC K3 inks are
>basically just UC inks, with the addition of the LLK and a lot of hype.
>
>  
>
Given Wilhelm's notes and preliminary numbers there can't be much 
difference to the first UCs. But the gloss is better according to Joseph 
Holmes. The speed can be reduced to get gloss differential better he 
writes but the 4800 is already faster than the 4000 and certainly much 
faster than the 9600 so that's hardly the way to achieve that result. I 
guess the pigments are the same but there's a media change (glop added 
or whatever without sacrificing Dmax). He also describes some hue shifts 
for CM in the new inkset. He seems to be more familiar with the 10000CF 
than the first UC models but he must know what he is writing about.

Ernst

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