Digital BW, The Print

For those who have a 4800, or those who are simply interested in the tonality of the 
Advanced B&W mode, you can download a set of soft proofs for Ilford Smooth Pearl Paper 
and Epson Premium Semi Gloss here:

http://homepage.mac.com/stevekale/stevekale2/FileSharing37.html

The .psf Adobe Photoshop soft proofing files have been constructed using a 256 step 
wedge printed using:

•	4800 driver v2.33
•	2880dpi
•	High speed off
•	Fine detail
•	Advanced B&W mode
•	The noted hue (cool, neutral, warm or sepia)
•	Darker

The soft proofs have:

•	Preserve RGB numbers checked (PS CS2 lingo)
•	Simulate Black Ink checked

The step wedge was measured using Gretag Macbeth's Eye One spectrophotometer.  

On a Mac the .psf files should be placed in:

~/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Color/Proofing

I have done soft proofs for Ilford Smooth Pearl (ISP) and Epson Premium Semi-gloss (PSG) 
so far.  I do not intend to do proofs for other options (eg dark, lighter) but may add other 
papers over time, eg some matte papers.  The Darker setting produces very good results 
from a Gray Gamma 2.2 workspace and I would rather tweak a soft proof with a "print 
curve" than tweak at the driver level except for picking hue.  

Even though images are printed with No Color Adjustment/Same as Source and hence only 
the file numbers are sent to the printer (no profile), the appearance of the image on your 
display depends on its embedded ICC profile.  (Assign a new profile and the colors 
associated with the same file numbers change.  Convert to a new profile and the 
underlying file numbers are changed so that the image looks the same with the new 
profile).   My assumption is that Epson worked with Adobe RGB (and hence its subset Gray 
Gamma 2.2) when creating the settings for the Advanced B&W driver.   This seems to be 
born out experience thus far.   Therefore I intend to use Gray Gamma 2.2 as my B&W 
workspace.

Cheers

Steve

I hear that Illford is going to stop making paper.

Do you have a second favorite that is similar to the Smooth Pearl?

Thanks
Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale" <stevekale@b...> wrote:

> For those who have a 4800, or those who are simply interested in the tonality of the 
> Advanced B&W mode, you can download a set of soft proofs for Ilford Smooth Pearl Paper 
> and Epson Premium Semi Gloss here:
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/stevekale/stevekale2/FileSharing37.html
>

Really?  I did not know that.  I just use EPSG, ISP and (when I can buy
some) Epson Premium Luster - although I don't like the latter sooooo much
with the new inks.  I prefer EPSG but it is expensive vs ISP....Given the
massive improvement in the inks on "photo" paper I eagerly await people's
suggestions as to how to get closer to the look (I care less about "feel")
of "air dried fibre based paper" with the new inks. I have a bunch of ISP to
keep me happy in the meantime.

Steve

> From: Scott Graham <gebilwil@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 22:33:16 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: 4800 Proofs/ Illford Pearl
> 
> I hear that Illford is going to stop making paper.
> 
> Do you have a second favorite that is similar to the Smooth Pearl?
> 
> Thanks
> Scott

Where do you here that?
Mark
Ilford Dealer

On Jun 4, 2005, at 6:33 PM, Scott Graham wrote:

> I hear that Illford is going to stop making paper.

A dealer told me that today.


scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia <mark@c...> wrote:

> Where do you here that?
> Mark
> Ilford Dealer
> 
> On Jun 4, 2005, at 6:33 PM, Scott Graham wrote:
> 
> > I hear that Illford is going to stop making paper.

Which papers?
Mark

On Jun 5, 2005, at 1:25 AM, Scott Graham wrote:

> A dealer told me that today.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Illford (going out of the retail paper biz?.)

Scott
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia <mark@c...> wrote:

> Which papers?
> Mark
> 
> On Jun 5, 2005, at 1:25 AM, Scott Graham wrote:
> 
> > A dealer told me that today.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have now added soft proofs for Epson Archival Matte paper.  Settings as
below.

http://homepage.mac.com/stevekale/stevekale2/FileSharing37.html

> From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 18:01:15 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] 4800 Advanced B&W Soft Proofs
> 
> For those who have a 4800, or those who are simply interested in the tonality
> of the 
> Advanced B&W mode, you can download a set of soft proofs for Ilford Smooth
> Pearl Paper 
> and Epson Premium Semi Gloss here:
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/stevekale/stevekale2/FileSharing37.html
> 
> The .psf Adobe Photoshop soft proofing files have been constructed using a 256
> step 
> wedge printed using:
> 
> € 4800 driver v2.33
> € 2880dpi
> € High speed off
> € Fine detail
> € Advanced B&W mode
> € The noted hue (cool, neutral, warm or sepia)
> € Darker
> 
> The soft proofs have:
> 
> € Preserve RGB numbers checked (PS CS2 lingo)
> € Simulate Black Ink checked
> 
> The step wedge was measured using Gretag Macbeth's Eye One spectrophotometer.
> 
> On a Mac the .psf files should be placed in:
> 
> ~/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Color/Proofing
> 
> I have done soft proofs for Ilford Smooth Pearl (ISP) and Epson Premium
> Semi-gloss (PSG) 
> so far.  I do not intend to do proofs for other options (eg dark, lighter) but
> may add other 
> papers over time, eg some matte papers.  The Darker setting produces very good
> results 
> from a Gray Gamma 2.2 workspace and I would rather tweak a soft proof with a
> "print 
> curve" than tweak at the driver level except for picking hue.
> 
> Even though images are printed with No Color Adjustment/Same as Source and
> hence only 
> the file numbers are sent to the printer (no profile), the appearance of the
> image on your 
> display depends on its embedded ICC profile.  (Assign a new profile and the
> colors 
> associated with the same file numbers change.  Convert to a new profile and
> the 
> underlying file numbers are changed so that the image looks the same with the
> new 
> profile).   My assumption is that Epson worked with Adobe RGB (and hence its
> subset Gray 
> Gamma 2.2) when creating the settings for the Advanced B&W driver.   This
> seems to be 
> born out experience thus far.   Therefore I intend to use Gray Gamma 2.2 as my
> B&W 
> workspace.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Steve

Thanks Steve!  Do you plan on making a softproof for PhotoRag?  Also, the Neutral EAM 
soft proof seems on the warm side.  Is that the case?

Ed


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> 
wrote:

> I have now added soft proofs for Epson Archival Matte paper.  Settings as
> below.
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/stevekale/stevekale2/FileSharing37.html

Hi Ed

I don't have any smaller sheets of HPR left (nor any Epson Premium Luster).
I agree that the EAM Neutral softproof looks ever so slightly warm on screen
(but not as warm as the "warm" soft proof) when you flick the soft proof on
and off.   (I can't see the numbers in behind the profile to cross-ref.  Eye
One stores the results of monitor measurements in the profile in Lab format
(the "CIED" tag) but the measurements for printer profiles are stored as
wavelength measurements.  I posted the Quickread measurements in the Holy
Moly 4800 thread.  They seemed relatively neutral and the prints look very
neutral.)  Soft proofing is a very tricky business.  For example, one would
theoretically check "simulate paper colour".  But the eye is very good at
adjusting for white.  When looking at a proof on screen, if there is any
other white within the field of vision the image simulated white can look
really off (often quite blue).  Try checking it with the EAM Neutral Darker
soft proof and see what happens - that bit of warmth disappears fast and it
looks cold.  Nonetheless I will re-read the neutral test chart tomorrow.

Re doing other matte papers (eg Permajet Alpha), I am in two minds at the
moment.  I am reminded of when Carl Schofield figured out how to use Eye One
to make these soft proof profiles and we did them for our QTR curves.  We
then saw, and finally understood why, our prints came out "flat" and "light"
without an "s curve" at print.  In the end, Roy came up with his QTR ICC
profiles to help "manage/automate" the tonal compression.

I think this sort of approach is still necessary for the Epson Advanced B&W
prints.  The output is very linear but the dMax is so much lower than a good
display.  Hence an initial soft proof is a bit disappointing.  I am tempted
to encourage Roy to refine the matte ICC profile a little (for the wptp tags
and the relevant white and black points of his kTRC tag) - when he has time
- and perhaps then do soft proofs for output that has been converted (and
hence the underlying file numbers sent to the printer have been adjusted) to
this profile.

In the tests I have done thus far, prints look better if they have been
converted to QTR-Gray Matte Paper profile before being sent to the printer
(either "on the fly" or "permanently").  I really do think further
refinement of this profile approach is key - albeit as matte paper blacks
get better and better (hopefully) the issue gets less and less critical.

I think Epson is still trailing the great minds on this forum in this
regard...

Steve

> From: edrudolpho <erudolph@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 20:10:16 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 4800 Advanced B&W Soft Proofs
> 
> Thanks Steve!  Do you plan on making a softproof for PhotoRag?  Also, the
> Neutral EAM 
> soft proof seems on the warm side.  Is that the case?
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> 
> wrote:
>> I have now added soft proofs for Epson Archival Matte paper.  Settings as
>> below.
>> 
>> http://homepage.mac.com/stevekale/stevekale2/FileSharing37.html
>