Digital BW, The Print

I´ll send this message to the Piezo and the Digital BW-Print list, it 
is identicall on both lists, no need to read it twice.

Fellows,

I had the opportunity to test 8 sheets of 16x24 inch  (approx. 24 x 
letter size) Hahnemühle´s new Photo Rag 308gsm paper last 
week which will be shipped to distributors in the US in some 
weeks.

It has been told before by other group members, that the paper 
will be available in all sheet- and roll sizes you usually buy 
Hahnemühle papers.
It comes in 188 and 308 gsm.
The surface is much smooother than W. Turner (Wells River) 
and smoother than German Etching (Orwell) too,  but not quite 
as smooth as EAM. The color of the unprinted sheet is like GE to 
my eyeballs (but Hahnemühle claims it is a little bit brighter). 
Coating is the same as GE/WT-coating

Test:
Image: Industrial site (steel mill with blast furnace) on a sunny 
day with clouds in the sky (wide tonal range).
I rescanned  two 8x10 inch BW negs on an Agfa Duoscan HiD at 
1000x2000 dpi in 48 bit RGB, converted to greyscale in PS and 
applied only one gradation-curve, so I got unsplitted 
histogramms.
First proofing was on EAM.  End-proof was on German Etching. 
Finally I printed the image on Photo Rag always using the CTM 
profile.

Results:
To make a long story short:  To my eyeball-meter tonal range, 
blacks, shadow- and highlight detail are very similar, so the 
overall impression of the GE and the Photo Rag prints is rather 
alike: same coating/same printing characteristics. 

Surface:
The main difference is the surface character of the papers.
As the surface of PR is smoother, the whole print remembers 
more than GE to a print on matte double-weight photo paper. 
And because the surface is smooth there is no micro aberrance 
of ink as it is caused by the rougher surface of GE. That adds to 
a slightly sharper impression of the PR print. If you inspect this 
with the magnifyer you will find that this is a consequence of a 
greater accutance of the PR print.
On the other hand it is the special surface of the GE-paper  
which supports this certain "Fine Art Feeling" the print evokes in 
your hand and your eyes. This is lost a little bit with Photo Rag.
Though it is a heavyweight paper, it hasn´t got this strong feeling 
GE has.
Flaking:
I havn´t got serious flaking problems with GE. Under the 
magnifyer you can see some micro flaking though, which isn´t 
obvious to your eyes. This is much less the case with Photo 
Rag.

Summary:
If your goal is to get as near as possible to silver prints with 
Piezo: choose Photo Rag.
If Piezo for you is an alternate medium to print Fine Art Black and 
White Photography and you love the characteristics of a nearly 
500 years old "Büttenpapier" you may wish to stay with German 
Etching.

Have a nice weekend.

Greetings from Germany
Bernd Langmack

I've also seen samples of Hahnemuhle Photo Rag from my local paper rep.  
It looks damn good.  When placed side by side with EAM, Photo Rag has a 
warmer surface.  For me it is a better printing paper than William 
Turner because the WT surface continues to flake off ruining the print.  
I don't want to make a high-end print and be afraid to take it out of 
it's plastic storage bag.  My local paper rep. recommends brushing off 
any fine art paper before printing with it.  With WT brushing still 
doesn't get all the flakes.  Photo Rag is certainly a great 
possibility, but nothing is going to match the economic value of EAM.
Frank
http://www.culturalvisions.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., ruhrfoto@y... wrote:

> I´ll send this message to the Piezo and the Digital BW-Print list, it 
> is identicall on both lists, no need to read it twice.
> 
> Fellows,
> 
> I had the opportunity to test 8 sheets of 16x24 inch  (approx. 24 x 
> letter size) Hahnemühle´s new Photo Rag 308gsm paper last 
> week which will be shipped to distributors in the US in some 
> weeks.
> 
> It has been told before by other group members, that the paper 
> will be available in all sheet- and roll sizes you usually buy 
> Hahnemühle papers.
> It comes in 188 and 308 gsm.
> The surface is much smooother than W. Turner (Wells River) 
> and smoother than German Etching (Orwell) too,  but not quite 
> as smooth as EAM. The color of the unprinted sheet is like GE to 
> my eyeballs (but Hahnemühle claims it is a little bit brighter). 
> Coating is the same as GE/WT-coating
> 
> Test:
> Image: Industrial site (steel mill with blast furnace) on a sunny 
> day with clouds in the sky (wide tonal range).
> I rescanned  two 8x10 inch BW negs on an Agfa Duoscan HiD at 
> 1000x2000 dpi in 48 bit RGB, converted to greyscale in PS and 
> applied only one gradation-curve, so I got unsplitted 
> histogramms.
> First proofing was on EAM.  End-proof was on German Etching. 
> Finally I printed the image on Photo Rag always using the CTM 
> profile.
> 
> Results:
> To make a long story short:  To my eyeball-meter tonal range, 
> blacks, shadow- and highlight detail are very similar, so the 
> overall impression of the GE and the Photo Rag prints is rather 
> alike: same coating/same printing characteristics. 
> 
> Surface:
> The main difference is the surface character of the papers.
> As the surface of PR is smoother, the whole print remembers 
> more than GE to a print on matte double-weight photo paper. 
> And because the surface is smooth there is no micro aberrance 
> of ink as it is caused by the rougher surface of GE. That adds to 
> a slightly sharper impression of the PR print. If you inspect this 
> with the magnifyer you will find that this is a consequence of a 
> greater accutance of the PR print.
> On the other hand it is the special surface of the GE-paper  
> which supports this certain "Fine Art Feeling" the print evokes in 
> your hand and your eyes. This is lost a little bit with Photo Rag.
> Though it is a heavyweight paper, it hasn´t got this strong feeling 
> GE has.
> Flaking:
> I havn´t got serious flaking problems with GE. Under the 
> magnifyer you can see some micro flaking though, which isn´t 
> obvious to your eyes. This is much less the case with Photo 
> Rag.
> 
> Summary:
> If your goal is to get as near as possible to silver prints with 
> Piezo: choose Photo Rag.
> If Piezo for you is an alternate medium to print Fine Art Black and 
> White Photography and you love the characteristics of a nearly 
> 500 years old "Büttenpapier" you may wish to stay with German 
> Etching.
> 
> Have a nice weekend.
> 
> Greetings from Germany
> Bernd Langmack

> I've also seen samples of Hahnemuhle Photo Rag from my local paper rep.
> It looks damn good.


We seem to be heading for a showdown between this paper and the Legion Photo
Matte. Anybody tested both yet?

Todd

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner 
<tflash@e...> wrote:
> We seem to be heading for a showdown between this paper 
and the Legion Photo
> Matte. Anybody tested both yet?
> 
> Todd

Joshua, 
are there any European resellers of your papers?
Private paper-import from US is usually to expensive for EU 
users: shipping taxes, customs services and current exchange 
($1=2,3DEM) add up a lot.
Thanks, Bernd

Dear Bernd,

Unfortunately, we are not yet distributing Legion Photo Matte in 
Europe.  We do, however, have several distributors of some of our non-
photo papers in Europe.  I will e-mail you offline to discuss.

Joshua

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., ruhrfoto@y... wrote:

> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner 
> <tflash@e...> wrote:
> > We seem to be heading for a showdown between this paper 
> and the Legion Photo
> > Matte. Anybody tested both yet?
> > 
> > Todd
> 
> Joshua, 
> are there any European resellers of your papers?
> Private paper-import from US is usually to expensive for EU 
> users: shipping taxes, customs services and current exchange 
> ($1=2,3DEM) add up a lot.
> Thanks, Bernd

In my  message about Hahnemuhle Photo Rag I wrote:
wrote:

>The color of the unprinted sheet is like GE to 
> my eyeballs (but Hahnemühle claims it is a little bit brighter). 

Well I must admitt, this evening in tungsten light, I seem to 
recognize a slight difference.
If I had to scale paper brightness, I would build the following row 
from bright-white to beige-white
1. EAM, Torchon 
2. Somerset Photo Enhanced
3. Photo Rag
4. German Etching
But the difference between PH and GE is not much.
Sorry, will compare again in daylight tomorrow.
Bernd