Digital BW, The Print

Anyone,

Sorry to bother you guys but am in a bit of a spot.

I have this contract to print a 12 foot x 24" panorama for a public installation 
on my 9600 UC and am not able to figure out what QTR is doing with my file.

When I start the job everything is going fine but 44" into the length of the print 
the printer stops and the print is trimmed. Though I am using a large roll I have 
tried this twice with both the QTR roll setting as well as the sheet paper 
setting. Since I was doing these on 44" rag paper it has already cost me quite 
a bit in wasted paper and I not sure what to do at this point.

On a related note I was not able to send this file through Photoshop CS to the 
printer ( it would not allow me to access the print menu ) when the file was set 
to 240 dpi. Strangely enough I was only able to make that work when I 
reduced the dpi of the print file to 150 dpi but the output look good. I don't 
understand this either, because it certainly wasn't a memory issue as it was 
only about a 200 meg file and I have printed several QTR files in print sizes 
much larger, say 44"x50" @ 240 dpi with no problems, but nothing this long.

This job is set up on a dual 450 G4 with 1.5 gigs of ram using the latest 
version of Panther. I  could use my G5 if I had to but I don't think this has 
anything to do with the Mac, it is something related to QTR.

Finally, before I contracted to do this job I did a test on the same system on 
cheap paper of the exact length I am working with but only a strip, not the 
entire file, and it was output at only 72 dpi to save the long duration that it 
would take to do this file. That went through fine all the way to the end.

Any suggestions or persons to contact regarding this would be appreciated.

I am on a time crunch. There is always something, huh.

John

Regarding not printing from PhotoShop:

Could this be an issue with the total number of pixels? I seem to 
recall that there was a limit on some versions of PS that would not 
allow you to print correctly. 30,000 seems to come to mind, but I might 
be wrong.

Also a cheaper paper suggestion: Hahnemuhle ArtProof. Still not 
extremely cheap, but if you are working with the other papers in that 
family, a good color match and it seems to hold just as much ink as the 
other coated papers.

As far as the rest goes... sorry, can't help.

The entire file size of this print is 105 megs ( small in larger scheme of things).
The way  I tried it last night was 24"x 180" @ 160 dpi  ( pixel width was 3840 - 
pixel height was 28800 pixels}.

Should I try reducing this further? You think it  might be a limitation with 
Photoshop? The problem with doing anymore tests is that it wasts  a lot of ink 
and it takes forever, but I might have to keep doing tests and changing 
settings. I'm just not sure what to attempt. I've written Roy but I actually don't 
think he any experience with large format printers and panoramas.

John




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" <
dfaprinting@y...> wrote:

> Regarding not printing from PhotoShop:
> 
> Could this be an issue with the total number of pixels? I seem to 
> recall that there was a limit on some versions of PS that would not 
> allow you to print correctly. 30,000 seems to come to mind, but I might 
> be wrong.
> 
> Also a cheaper paper suggestion: Hahnemuhle ArtProof. Still not 
> extremely cheap, but if you are working with the other papers in that 
> family, a good color match and it seems to hold just as much ink as the 
> other coated papers.
> 
> As far as the rest goes... sorry, can't help.

Actually the 9600 has a much longer length limit than 44" when using even 
the Epson driver, I do long prints color and qtr on the banner setting all the 
time. But not this length.

What we are exploring here is the way the rip QTR is handling the file 
throught Photoshop .  I have done many Qtr prints in the 60" length but when it 
comes to this more extreme length something is happening and I don't know 
what my limit is. Pixel count could have something to do with it.

Roy wrote me a couple of weeks ago that people from this list told him the 
limit was 100 feet, which is far, far, beyond the 12-15' limit that I want to work 
with.  I wish I knew who that was so I could ask him. This could be an issue for 
a lot of people who do monochrome panoramas and want to sell them for an 
installation.

John





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Graham" <
gebilwil@n...> wrote:
> The Epson driver/OS combination has a 44 inch limit---actually I think the 
limit varies a 
> bit with printer and OS, and it is a well discussed problem.  There is a paper 
discussing 
> this on the Epson site someplace, and a search here or on wide format will 
probably find 
> something.
> 
> Anyway, a traditional solution is to tile the image in a software that 
implements this.  
> Illustrator comes to  mind.  There is a file uploaded on the Epson 4000 
group that 
> discusses how to do this.
> 
> Also, does the current 9600 firmware/software have a banner option?  That 
supposedly 
> works on the 4000 with "pseudo tiling" in Photoshop.
> 
> Scott
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
> <deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> > The entire file size of this print is 105 megs ( small in larger scheme of 
things).
> > The way  I tried it last night was 24"x 180" @ 160 dpi  ( pixel width was 
3840 - 
> > pixel height was 28800 pixels}.
> > 
> > Should I try reducing this further? You think it  might be a limitation with 
> > Photoshop? The problem with doing anymore tests is that it wasts  a lot of 
ink 
> > and it takes forever, but I might have to keep doing tests and changing 
> > settings. I'm just not sure what to attempt. I've written Roy but I actually 
don't 

> > think he any experience with large format printers and panoramas.
> > 
> > John
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" <
> > dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
> > > Regarding not printing from PhotoShop:
> > > 
> > > Could this be an issue with the total number of pixels? I seem to 
> > > recall that there was a limit on some versions of PS that would not 
> > > allow you to print correctly. 30,000 seems to come to mind, but I might 
> > > be wrong.
> > > 
> > > Also a cheaper paper suggestion: Hahnemuhle ArtProof. Still not 
> > > extremely cheap, but if you are working with the other papers in that 
> > > family, a good color match and it seems to hold just as much ink as the 
> > > other coated papers.
> > > 
> > > As far as the rest goes... sorry, can't help.

I could point you to a different RIP (Windows only), but you would need 
to learn how it works, as well as make CMYK profiles with the black 
generation set to give you the type of print that you want. It's all 
going to come down to the amount of time you have left. I can do the 
profiles (and turn them around really quickly), and am fairly familiar 
with this RIP in trial mode (14 days no watermarks or other 
limitations). Running in the standard print mode it would all be down 
to the profile.

The RIP I mention is one of my finalists in the RIP wars, really just 
one other to check at this point.

If the Windows only isn't an issue, I can email you the info to get the 
demo, and could email the profile targets  (if needed) to you when I 
get home from work. The developer claims 100+ feet limit, though I 
haven't tried anything larger than 12x18 inches. It prints from its 
internal layout program, so no PhotoShop limits on pixel count.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Graham" 
<gebilwil@n...> wrote:
> The Epson driver/OS combination has a 44 inch limit---actually I 
think the limit varies a 
> bit with printer and OS, and it is a well discussed problem.  There 
is a paper discussing 
> this on the Epson site someplace, and a search here or on wide format 
will probably find 
> something.
>

According to Chris at inkjetart (who is also using Macs) the limit is 
92 inches with the Epson driver.
http://www.inkjetart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1362#1362

I thought I had read somewhere that the limit with Windows XP was 
either 96 inches or somewhere above 100 inches (can't really remember).

Thanks Greg,

I am going to stay away from Windows unless I invest in Studio Print and anoa 
pc  , which for 95% of my work is not necessary since I don't create my own 
profiles now.

I haven't give up on QTR yet since I was able to make it print 12' with a low 
resolution strip last week. 

Right now I am attempting to print the thing out of the Epson  banner driver at 
160" long . It is printing but it has decided to shrink the width of my panorama 
from 8" to 6" on the fly. Very strange day I'm having today.

John

aprinting@y...> wrote:

> I could point you to a different RIP (Windows only), but you would need 
> to learn how it works, as well as make CMYK profiles with the black 
> generation set to give you the type of print that you want. It's all 
> going to come down to the amount of time you have left. I can do the 
> profiles (and turn them around really quickly), and am fairly familiar 
> with this RIP in trial mode (14 days no watermarks or other 
> limitations). Running in the standard print mode it would all be down 
> to the profile.
> 
> The RIP I mention is one of my finalists in the RIP wars, really just 
> one other to check at this point.
> 
> If the Windows only isn't an issue, I can email you the info to get the 
> demo, and could email the profile targets  (if needed) to you when I 
> get home from work. The developer claims 100+ feet limit, though I 
> haven't tried anything larger than 12x18 inches. It prints from its 
> internal layout program, so no PhotoShop limits on pixel count.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
<deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> Thanks Greg,
> 
> I am going to stay away from Windows unless I invest in Studio Print 
and anoa 
> pc  , which for 95% of my work is not necessary since I don't create 
my own 
> profiles now.


Just a note about StudioPrint, for some things outside the norm, 
StudioPrint may not be the best choice. Yes it has a dedicated B/W 
mode, and it will allow mixing channels and setting the amount of 
mixing, there are a couple things that I'm finding it won't let me do. 
Things that I may want to be able to do. If it had an advanced mode 
where everything was manual with no wizard to help you, I think it 
would be great. But as far as I know, it doesn't have this type of 
operation. I need to glance through the PDF one more time, and then go 
on to the next trial that I have.

Thank you for the update on length.  I obviously haven't tried it, or even really had time to try 
QTR yet except for a couple of tests.  My show is up now though, so I am breathing again.

Scott

www.sgraham.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@y...> 
wrote:

> Actually the 9600 has a much longer length limit than 44" when using even 
> the Epson driver, I do long prints color and qtr on the banner setting all the 
> time. But not this length.
> 
> What we are exploring here is the way the rip QTR is handling the file 
> throught Photoshop .  I have done many Qtr prints in the 60" length but when it