Digital BW, The Print

I just received my test print from Lyson of their digital darkroom 
inks on their Darkroom White Satin paper. The print has an incredible 
dmax with wonderful neutral image tone. I notice serious microbanding 
in regions of certain darker tones. However, it is quite possible 
this is just a problem with quality control in a print made for the 
mass market. The subtlety of highlights and also the detail in the 
shadows leaves a lot to be desired but I'm guessing this is due to 
the images they chose to print and not a fundamental limitation of 
the inkset.

Unfortunately, the metamerism is very bad. In tungsten light the 
image tone is wonderful but in daylight the darker blacks are ....how 
do I say this kindly....they seem to take on a dule blueish tone that 
for me is just plain ugly. This is only my opinion and I am probably 
wrong. I will be interested to see how others feel.

On a different note, the darkroom white satin paper looks 
interesting. Its a plastic material without the synthetic look 
typical of these types of papers like Epson Premium luster. The Lyson 
paper has a surface structure that looks SOMEWHAT like an air dried 
fiber based Ag print. The reflective sheen is not nearly as strong as 
Ilford multigrade FB or Oriental Seagull fiber based Ag papers.  The 
one thing I don't like is that the paper is very much on the thin 
side almost like a single weight Ag paper. I will try some with 
ultrachrome and MIS UT7 inks. Anyone else looked at this paper?

You would think that would need to be very high since the sample  
print IS the salesperson. Too bad.
Mark

On Jun 16, 2005, at 8:47 AM, yohnnyboy wrote:

> However, it is quite possible
> this is just a problem with quality control in a print made for the
   mass market.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lyson quads used to be neutral in daylight and reddish under tungsten. They 
obviously aren't getting anywhere after all these years. They are wasting their 
time.  Their sample prints should be the best possible print imaginable. 

Kodak has a new "photo base paper" that comes in glossy and lustre. I have 
samples but haven't tried it yet. It is supposed to eliminate the bronzing and 
gloss diff caused by pigments on glossy media. By feeling the back I can see 
it is rc but the front surface doesn't look like plastic. Logix is carrying this paper 
I believe. That is where I got the samples. Have no idea of the permanency, 
but with Kodak I would be suspicous to say the least. But it might end up 
being a good product, they need the business.

John



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "yohnnyboy" <
chhopk@l...> wrote:

> I just received my test print from Lyson of their digital darkroom 
> inks on their Darkroom White Satin paper. The print has an incredible 
> dmax with wonderful neutral image tone. I notice serious microbanding 
> in regions of certain darker tones. However, it is quite possible 
> this is just a problem with quality control in a print made for the 
> mass market. The subtlety of highlights and also the detail in the 
> shadows leaves a lot to be desired but I'm guessing this is due to 
> the images they chose to print and not a fundamental limitation of 
> the inkset.
> 
> Unfortunately, the metamerism is very bad. In tungsten light the 
> image tone is wonderful but in daylight the darker blacks are ....how 
> do I say this kindly....they seem to take on a dule blueish tone that 
> for me is just plain ugly. This is only my opinion and I am probably 
> wrong. I will be interested to see how others feel.
> 
> On a different note, the darkroom white satin paper looks 
> interesting. Its a plastic material without the synthetic look 
> typical of these types of papers like Epson Premium luster. The Lyson 
> paper has a surface structure that looks SOMEWHAT like an air dried 
> fiber based Ag print. The reflective sheen is not nearly as strong as 
> Ilford multigrade FB or Oriental Seagull fiber based Ag papers.  The 
> one thing I don't like is that the paper is very much on the thin 
> side almost like a single weight Ag paper. I will try some with 
> ultrachrome and MIS UT7 inks. Anyone else looked at this paper?

We just received our sample, only four months after requesting it. I 
wasn't particularly impressed with it. The DMax was around 1.9 (blue 
channel DMax was 1.5) - nowhere near what Lyson have been claiming,
but this is a satin finish sample; it wasn't neutral in any light; the 
shadows were blocked up; the midtone to highlight transition was not 
smooth and the images were less than sharp.

Most of those are fixable by tweaking the profile and by printing a 
sharp image, of course.

Best, Helen

HP Designjet Yahoo Group's intensive photo-printers regularly complain
about the quality of HP's color sample, Vs superior output they claim
to achieve on their own with Designjet 130.

Maybe both HP and Lyson are "managing expectations" by not promising
too much visually :-) 

In any case, Lyson's and HP's high Dmax probably aren't the deciding
issues when people who rely more on their eyes than upon measurements
become involved :-)







--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "yohnnyboy"
<chhopk@l...> wrote:
> I just received my test print from Lyson of their digital darkroom 
> inks on their Darkroom White Satin paper. ...leaves a lot to be
desired but I'm guessing this is due to 

> the images they chose to print and not a fundamental limitation of 
> the inkset.
>