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Digital BW, The Print

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HP black only / cheap BO/quadtone printer

HP black only / cheap BO/quadtone printer

2005-06-17 by blackandwhite_mf

Hi All,

Does anyone know of an alternate driver etc that would allow me to
print decent BO on an HP deskjet 920c? Funds are limited, so there
will be no new printer for me. Its either that, or sit down and work
out how to completely remove the colour cast from the colour print.

In addition, it will only do 600x600 dpi on BO (but will do 1200x1200
dpi in colour with photoret). Any way to improve this?

What makes this even more sickening is I gave away an old epson stylus
640 I had - which one can get quadtone inks for :(

Failing all the above, can anyone recommend a cheap printer that is BO
capable, but could also use quadtone inks (i have heard about HP
7660/Epson C86 - any recommendations). I'd prefer HP as the heads are
part of the ink cartridge, but I'm willing to be swayed.

Cheers

Chris

Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-17 by Richard Nagle

Read this story below:
so, if Epson is suing companies that make third party inks, for its printers,
is MIS going to be in trouble in the future?

Would this spell doom for all others as well ?
I mean, I don¹t want to get hook on a ink, and then its gone forever.

Regards-
Rick


---
Epson hits another ink cartridge maker
By Martyn Williams, IDG News Service

For the second time this week a manufacturer of Epson-compatible ink cartridges
is taking its products off the market as a result of legal action by Seiko Epson
Corp., the Japanese company said Friday.

Environmental Business Products Ltd. has stopped importing and supplying
Epson-compatible printer cartridges as a result of an out of court settlement
between the two companies, Epson said in a statement. Epson had brought
proceedings against the London company in the U.K. High Court for infringement
of a number of patents and registered designs owned by Epson, the statement
said.

The company and others like it offer ink cartridges or refills that can be used
in Epson printers and are typically cheaper than those from Epson. For printer
makers the sale of replacement ink is a major source of profit.


Full Story Here:
http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/06/17/epson/index.php?pf=1



FYI:
Rick

Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-17 by Steve Kale

In the long run this is good for us.  Clearly these companies or their
suppliers were infringing on Epson patents.  Epson deserves the right to
earn a return from its inventions.  I don't think this spells doom for those
with genuine research investment of their own.  If anything it will help
them see that their inventions too will be protected from piracy.  Genuine
competition is good.  Piracy is bad for all, including us consumers.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Richard Nagle <cms01@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:42:24 -0400
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)
> 
> Read this story below:
> so, if Epson is suing companies that make third party inks, for its printers,
> is MIS going to be in trouble in the future?
> 
> Would this spell doom for all others as well ?
> I mean, I don¹t want to get hook on a ink, and then its gone forever.
> 
> Regards-
> Rick
> 
> 
> ---
> Epson hits another ink cartridge maker
> By Martyn Williams, IDG News Service
> 
> For the second time this week a manufacturer of Epson-compatible ink
> cartridges
> is taking its products off the market as a result of legal action by Seiko
> Epson
> Corp., the Japanese company said Friday.
> 
> Environmental Business Products Ltd. has stopped importing and supplying
> Epson-compatible printer cartridges as a result of an out of court settlement
> between the two companies, Epson said in a statement. Epson had brought
> proceedings against the London company in the U.K. High Court for infringement
> of a number of patents and registered designs owned by Epson, the statement
> said.
> 
> The company and others like it offer ink cartridges or refills that can be
> used
> in Epson printers and are typically cheaper than those from Epson. For printer
> makers the sale of replacement ink is a major source of profit.
> 
> 
> Full Story Here:
> http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/06/17/epson/index.php?pf=1
> 
> 
> 
> FYI:
> Rick

Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-17 by Scott McLoughlin

This is one of the nastier aspects of the high tech industry. Ideally one
has some powerful buyers and viable competititve alternatives and
these kind of coercive vendor moves (artificially forced vertical 
integration,
needless crippling of a technology, etc.) are thwarted.

The computer tech rags and industry analysts are largely beholden to the
vendors for advertising (like in most industries, I guess), but they can 
also
be remarkably outspoken in response to displeasure from powerful buyers
or even grass roots revolt from the groundlings :-) This plus a series of
lawsuits helps maintain some kind of "openess" in computer tech.

But I don't see the dynamic working in the consumer oriented technologies
(DVD geo coding, Epson ink chipping, NEF WB encoding). DMCA
certainly doesn't help the situation. Is a Gartner, Walt Mossberger (grin)
or a big co customer like GE really weighing in on the PR or legal 
fronts on
these kind of issues?

Ultimately, companies have to fear hoards of more or less organized
customers voting with their $$$ or credible legal challenges from 
reasonably
funded competititors or customers.

Question - Are Epson printers "loss leaders" that really require 
considerable
ink sales to achieve profitability? Reminds of the Xbox hacking issue a
couple of years ago.

Scott

Richard Nagle wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Read this story below:
> so, if Epson is suing companies that make third party inks, for its 
> printers,
> is MIS going to be in trouble in the future?
>
> Would this spell doom for all others as well ?
> I mean, I don\ufffdt want to get hook on a ink, and then its gone forever.
>
> Regards-
> Rick
>
>
> ---
> Epson hits another ink cartridge maker
> By Martyn Williams, IDG News Service
>
> For the second time this week a manufacturer of Epson-compatible ink 
> cartridges
> is taking its products off the market as a result of legal action by 
> Seiko Epson
> Corp., the Japanese company said Friday.
>
> Environmental Business Products Ltd. has stopped importing and supplying
> Epson-compatible printer cartridges as a result of an out of court 
> settlement
> between the two companies, Epson said in a statement. Epson had brought
> proceedings against the London company in the U.K. High Court for 
> infringement
> of a number of patents and registered designs owned by Epson, the 
> statement
> said.
>
> The company and others like it offer ink cartridges or refills that 
> can be used
> in Epson printers and are typically cheaper than those from Epson. For 
> printer
> makers the sale of replacement ink is a major source of profit.
>
>
> Full Story Here:
> http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/06/17/epson/index.php?pf=1
>
>
>
> FYI:
> Rick
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd 
> AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Yahoo! Groups Links*
>
>     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>       <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>

RE: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-17 by Paul Roark

MIS believes the Chinese company that produces the clear carts has a valid
patent on its design.  MIS is more worried about a price increase from this
company as the other knock-off competitors get wiped out by Epson.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard
> Nagle
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 6:42 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)
> 
> Read this story below:
> so, if Epson is suing companies that make third party inks, for its
> printers,
> is MIS going to be in trouble in the future?
> 
> Would this spell doom for all others as well ?
> I mean, I don¹t want to get hook on a ink, and then its gone forever.
> 
> Regards-
> Rick
> 
> 
> ---
> Epson hits another ink cartridge maker
> By Martyn Williams, IDG News Service
> 
> For the second time this week a manufacturer of Epson-compatible ink
> cartridges
> is taking its products off the market as a result of legal action by Seiko
> Epson
> Corp., the Japanese company said Friday.
> 
> Environmental Business Products Ltd. has stopped importing and supplying
> Epson-compatible printer cartridges as a result of an out of court
> settlement
> between the two companies, Epson said in a statement. Epson had brought
> proceedings against the London company in the U.K. High Court for
> infringement
> of a number of patents and registered designs owned by Epson, the
> statement
> said.
> 
> The company and others like it offer ink cartridges or refills that can be
> used
> in Epson printers and are typically cheaper than those from Epson. For
> printer
> makers the sale of replacement ink is a major source of profit.
> 
> 
> Full Story Here:
> http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/06/17/epson/index.php?pf=1
> 
> 
> 
> FYI:
> Rick
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
> “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-17 by Scott McLoughlin

I agree with you in principle, but I don't know that I agree with you in
this
case (or many similar cases).

We want innovative devices (including printers) that support media (ink)
and
accessories (cartridges) from many competing suppliers, plain and
simple. Has
nothing to do with Epson's fair chances of making a few bucks. (No company
has a "right" to profit from their innovations at all. If that were
true, I'd do alot
better in the stock market :-)

I can't recall the vendor, but a data backup/storage company added some
encryption
to their compression, arguing that only their software can be used to
access backed
up data (e.g., DMCA). The software might be quite innovative, but the
artificial
restriction (ultimately legal) was not.I think in this case, alot of bad
press and a lawsuit
(State Farm or some other big buyer) rectified the situation.

The computer industry, definitely with some exceptions, is largely
driven by evolving
industry de jure and de facto standards, and a strong customer
preference for some
degree of interoperability and customer choice. Still many vendors make
plenty of
money.

The consumers in the consumer technology industries are far less
organized and
are generally treated like saps as they waste their $$$ on proprietary
technologies.

So back to Epson. If their printers are innovative, then sell 'em. If
their ink is innovative
(and it is!), then sell that. But cartridges? Me'thinks not. In any
case, customers
should pay for the innovations on a case by case basis. I should be able
to buy a
really nice, fast Sony DVD burner and use really crappy DVD media in it
if I want
too.

Scott


Steve Kale wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> In the long run this is good for us. Clearly these companies or their
> suppliers were infringing on Epson patents. Epson deserves the right to
> earn a return from its inventions. I don't think this spells doom for
> those
> with genuine research investment of their own. If anything it will help
> them see that their inventions too will be protected from piracy. Genuine
> competition is good. Piracy is bad for all, including us consumers.
>
>
> > From: Richard Nagle <cms01@...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:42:24 -0400
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)
> >
> > Read this story below:
> > so, if Epson is suing companies that make third party inks, for its
> printers,
> > is MIS going to be in trouble in the future?
> >
> > Would this spell doom for all others as well ?
> > I mean, I don\ufffd\ufffdt want to get hook on a ink, and then its gone forever.
> >
> > Regards-
> > Rick
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Epson hits another ink cartridge maker
> > By Martyn Williams, IDG News Service
> >
> > For the second time this week a manufacturer of Epson-compatible ink
> > cartridges
> > is taking its products off the market as a result of legal action by
> Seiko
> > Epson
> > Corp., the Japanese company said Friday.
> >
> > Environmental Business Products Ltd. has stopped importing and supplying
> > Epson-compatible printer cartridges as a result of an out of court
> settlement
> > between the two companies, Epson said in a statement. Epson had brought
> > proceedings against the London company in the U.K. High Court for
> infringement
> > of a number of patents and registered designs owned by Epson, the
> statement
> > said.
> >
> > The company and others like it offer ink cartridges or refills that
> can be
> > used
> > in Epson printers and are typically cheaper than those from Epson.
> For printer
> > makers the sale of replacement ink is a major source of profit.
> >
> >
> > Full Story Here:
> > http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/06/17/epson/index.php?pf=1
> >
> >
> >
> > FYI:
> > Rick
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
> Owner and Moderators. See \ufffd\u0524\ufffd\ufffd\u04e4\ufffdroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines? in the
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffd\u0524\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffdWNER?
> AND \ufffd\u0524\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffdODERATORS? OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffd\u0524\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffdWNER? AND \ufffd\u0524\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffdODERATORS? OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES),
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Yahoo! Groups Links*
>
>     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] HP black only / cheap BO/quadtone printer

2005-06-17 by Adam Maas

It's not Archival, but the Photosmart 7260 has an available (And cheap) 
Photo Grey cart for it. I've had decent luck printing B&W with this cart 
on my 7660 and HP Matte paper. I'm going to either the C86 or an R2400 
in the near future though.

-Adam


blackandwhite_mf wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi All,
>
> Does anyone know of an alternate driver etc that would allow me to
> print decent BO on an HP deskjet 920c? Funds are limited, so there
> will be no new printer for me. Its either that, or sit down and work
> out how to completely remove the colour cast from the colour print.
>
> In addition, it will only do 600x600 dpi on BO (but will do 1200x1200
> dpi in colour with photoret). Any way to improve this?
>
> What makes this even more sickening is I gave away an old epson stylus
> 640 I had - which one can get quadtone inks for :(
>
> Failing all the above, can anyone recommend a cheap printer that is BO
> capable, but could also use quadtone inks (i have heard about HP
> 7660/Epson C86 - any recommendations). I'd prefer HP as the heads are
> part of the ink cartridge, but I'm willing to be swayed.
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd 
> AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Yahoo! Groups Links*
>
>     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>

RE: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-17 by Paul Roark

> 
> Question - Are Epson printers "loss leaders" that really require
> considerable
> ink sales to achieve profitability? Reminds of the Xbox hacking issue a
> couple of years ago.

I think we might be getting a bit of a free ride from their business model,
which I call the Gillette model -- give away the razor and nick them with
the blades.  For example, the sale price on C86s can be incredibly low.  On
the other hand, I suspect in general Epson is not selling for a loss.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-17 by john dean

Could very well be that people out there who are using or or interested in 
using the pressurized ink carts ( me), as used by the 10K series could find 
their sources of these "patented?" devices removed from the market. But  of 
far more concern is the new series of Epson's like the  7800- 9800 which also 
will use pressurized carts. Sure, they want to make it as difficult as possible for 
others to compete.

John



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <
paul.roark@v...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> MIS believes the Chinese company that produces the clear carts has a valid
> patent on its design.  MIS is more worried about a price increase from this
> company as the other knock-off competitors get wiped out by Epson.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-17 by Richard Nagle

This is why I had to ask the group...
because, it makes no-sense in using a certain type of brand one week,
and next week, there gone.

I would like to hear from MIS spoke person....

Rick



john dean, deanwork2003@..., Friday, June 17, 2005
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Could very well be that people out there who are using or or interested in 
>using the pressurized ink carts ( me), as used by the 10K series could find 
>their sources of these "patented?" devices removed from the market. But  of 
>far more concern is the new series of Epson's like the  7800- 9800 which also 
>will use pressurized carts. Sure, they want to make it as difficult as possible 
>for 
>others to compete.
>
>John
>
>
>
>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <
>paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>> MIS believes the Chinese company that produces the clear carts has a valid
>> patent on its design.  MIS is more worried about a price increase from this
>> company as the other knock-off competitors get wiped out by Epson.
>> 
>> Paul
>> www.PaulRoark.com 
>> 
>> 
>
>
>
>

RE: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-17 by Paul Roark

The 7600 carts are so easy to rinse and re-use, that I may just end up using
Epson carts with MIS ink.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john
> dean
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:29 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)
> 
> Could very well be that people out there who are using or or interested in
> using the pressurized ink carts ( me), as used by the 10K series could
> find
> their sources of these "patented?" devices removed from the market. But
> of
> far more concern is the new series of Epson's like the  7800- 9800 which
> also
> will use pressurized carts. Sure, they want to make it as difficult as
> possible for
> others to compete.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <
> paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > MIS believes the Chinese company that produces the clear carts has a
> valid
> > patent on its design.  MIS is more worried about a price increase from
> this
> > company as the other knock-off competitors get wiped out by Epson.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
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> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-17 by Steve Kale

I think you will find the cartridges in question were not empty.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Scott McLoughlin <scott@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:43:39 -0400
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)
> 
> I agree with you in principle, but I don't know that I agree with you in
> this
> case (or many similar cases).
> 
> We want innovative devices (including printers) that support media (ink)
> and
> accessories (cartridges) from many competing suppliers, plain and
> simple. Has
> nothing to do with Epson's fair chances of making a few bucks. (No company
> has a "right" to profit from their innovations at all. If that were
> true, I'd do alot
> better in the stock market :-)
> 
> I can't recall the vendor, but a data backup/storage company added some
> encryption
> to their compression, arguing that only their software can be used to
> access backed
> up data (e.g., DMCA). The software might be quite innovative, but the
> artificial
> restriction (ultimately legal) was not.I think in this case, alot of bad
> press and a lawsuit
> (State Farm or some other big buyer) rectified the situation.
> 
> The computer industry, definitely with some exceptions, is largely
> driven by evolving
> industry de jure and de facto standards, and a strong customer
> preference for some
> degree of interoperability and customer choice. Still many vendors make
> plenty of
> money.
> 
> The consumers in the consumer technology industries are far less
> organized and
> are generally treated like saps as they waste their $$$ on proprietary
> technologies.
> 
> So back to Epson. If their printers are innovative, then sell 'em. If
> their ink is innovative
> (and it is!), then sell that. But cartridges? Me'thinks not. In any
> case, customers
> should pay for the innovations on a case by case basis. I should be able
> to buy a
> really nice, fast Sony DVD burner and use really crappy DVD media in it
> if I want
> too.
> 
> Scott
>

Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-17 by Steve Kale

When I was at Photoplus last year the Epson guys said they only broke even
on the hardware.  I doubt that this is the case in, say, the UK where they
charge 80% more for them.  My bet though is that the true profit is in the
ink cartridges and other media (again, look what they charge in the UK!!).
I don't blame them for going after pirates, nor even after those that are
copying their cartridge design to fill with innovative inks.  The former is
good, the latter sucks for us as it does restrict innovation.  On the other
hand, if I were an ink research company and came up with a blow-out formula
but was prevented from putting it in an Epson compatible cart there are
plenty of other hardware companies that one could approach and help get
ahead.  The issue in question is about piracy not innovation.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:18:47 -0700
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)
> 
>> 
>> Question - Are Epson printers "loss leaders" that really require
>> considerable
>> ink sales to achieve profitability? Reminds of the Xbox hacking issue a
>> couple of years ago.
> 
> I think we might be getting a bit of a free ride from their business model,
> which I call the Gillette model -- give away the razor and nick them with
> the blades.  For example, the sale price on C86s can be incredibly low.  On
> the other hand, I suspect in general Epson is not selling for a loss.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-17 by Scott McLoughlin

Gotcha. So if it's ink (chemical) pattent issues, that I can understand.

I did Google for the Epson story for more info. Even tried SlashDot,
but couldn't find detailed info on the specific patented technologies at 
issue.

Scott

Steve Kale wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I think you will find the cartridges in question were not empty.
>
>
> > From: Scott McLoughlin <scott@...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:43:39 -0400
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)
> >
> > I agree with you in principle, but I don't know that I agree with you in
> > this
> > case (or many similar cases).
> >
> > We want innovative devices (including printers) that support media (ink)
> > and
> > accessories (cartridges) from many competing suppliers, plain and
> > simple. Has
> > nothing to do with Epson's fair chances of making a few bucks. (No 
> company
> > has a "right" to profit from their innovations at all. If that were
> > true, I'd do alot
> > better in the stock market :-)
> >
> > I can't recall the vendor, but a data backup/storage company added some
> > encryption
> > to their compression, arguing that only their software can be used to
> > access backed
> > up data (e.g., DMCA). The software might be quite innovative, but the
> > artificial
> > restriction (ultimately legal) was not.I think in this case, alot of bad
> > press and a lawsuit
> > (State Farm or some other big buyer) rectified the situation.
> >
> > The computer industry, definitely with some exceptions, is largely
> > driven by evolving
> > industry de jure and de facto standards, and a strong customer
> > preference for some
> > degree of interoperability and customer choice. Still many vendors make
> > plenty of
> > money.
> >
> > The consumers in the consumer technology industries are far less
> > organized and
> > are generally treated like saps as they waste their $$$ on proprietary
> > technologies.
> >
> > So back to Epson. If their printers are innovative, then sell 'em. If
> > their ink is innovative
> > (and it is!), then sell that. But cartridges? Me'thinks not. In any
> > case, customers
> > should pay for the innovations on a case by case basis. I should be able
> > to buy a
> > really nice, fast Sony DVD burner and use really crappy DVD media in it
> > if I want
> > too.
> >
> > Scott
> >
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd 
> AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-17 by dfaprinting

Try alotofthings.com I think they mentioned it, and if it is the one 
that I read, is wasn't the ink, it was that part of the cartridge was a 
direct copy (probably the valve assembly, but just a guess) There are 
also a couple of other places that would have this, IF I'm bored later 
I'll see if I can backtrack through my history and find them.

And that crappy DVD media you mentioned... they still had to pay the 
rights fees to make that media. I believe the DVD forum owns the rights 
for DVD-R. Sony, Philips, and a couple others the DVD+R. So no matter 
what, Princo still has to pay for the rights to make their lowest level 
of disk. May only be a tenth of a cent each disk, but they still have 
to pay it.

Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-17 by dfaprinting

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
<deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> Could very well be that people out there who are using or or 
interested in 
> using the pressurized ink carts ( me), as used by the 10K series 
could find 
> their sources of these "patented?" devices removed from the market. 
But  of 
> far more concern is the new series of Epson's like the  7800- 9800 
which also 
> will use pressurized carts. Sure, they want to make it as difficult 
as possible for 
> others to compete.
> 
> John
> 
> 

I can tell you that there aren't any low price miniature pumps to be 
bought for the CIS market. Prices were hovering around $100 each in 
small volumes, this for pumps that max out at a few milliliters per 
minute flow, and made from injection molded housings. So you can 
pretty much count that idea out.

Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-17 by dfaprinting

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" 
<dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
> Here is the end result of one battle:
> 
> http://www.rechargermagazine.com/news.asp?id=200506507
> 
> Might give anyone interested fuel to find more.

A few more listed in the overview at:
http://www.rechargermagazine.com/news.asp

Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-18 by Martin Carrington

Zerox had a brief excursion into the color inkjet market and a 
friend of mine at Zerox stated that their printers were loss leaders 
and the profot was projected on inks. For Epson printers at the 
lower end of the range this is likely also true but not I am sure 
for the $600+ 'prosumer' printers.

If you have an Epson C86 (?) with rebates the printer is free in San 
Diego. That's what killed the Zerox printers, to gain sales they 
rebated printers to such a degree that the printers cost less than 
the replacemnet ink cartriges and sneaky folks were buying complete 
printers, taking out the cartridges as throwing away the printers!!

Seems unfair to consumers for Epson to kill aftermarket inks when 
printers without them struggle to attain reasonable B+W (without a 
RIP). Of course Epsons reply might be to trash one's 2200 and buy a 
2400!

Regards

Martin



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> When I was at Photoplus last year the Epson guys said they only 
broke even
> on the hardware.

Re: Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-18 by dlruckus

If true, then the Xerox project people were babes in the woods and in
wayyyyy over their heads. Anyone with even an ounce of experience in
sales or service at Xerox would have known better. Xerox labored on
for several decades under consent decrees from the US goverment as
regards the sale of consumable supplies. eg: It is considered
restraint of trade to interfere in any way with 3rd party suppliers of
consumables.
No one considering prior history at Xerox would for a second have
thought they could count on ink sales for all the profits.
Of course that presupposes common sense on the part of the corporate
animal, something often in short supply.

Regards
Duane



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Martin
Carrington" <martinc@s...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Zerox had a brief excursion into the color inkjet market and a 
> friend of mine at Zerox stated that their printers were loss leaders 
> and the profot was projected on inks. For Epson printers at the 
> lower end of the range this is likely also true but not I am sure 
> for the $600+ 'prosumer' printers.
> 
> If you have an Epson C86 (?) with rebates the printer is free in San 
> Diego. That's what killed the Zerox printers, to gain sales they 
> rebated printers to such a degree that the printers cost less than 
> the replacemnet ink cartriges and sneaky folks were buying complete 
> printers, taking out the cartridges as throwing away the printers!!
> 
> Seems unfair to consumers for Epson to kill aftermarket inks when 
> printers without them struggle to attain reasonable B+W (without a 
> RIP). Of course Epsons reply might be to trash one's 2200 and buy a 
> 2400!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Martin
>

Re: Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-20 by ccolbertbw

Hi Paul,
Care to elaborate? How do you get all the water out?
Costa


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> 
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> The 7600 carts are so easy to rinse and re-use, that I may just end up using
> Epson carts with MIS ink.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john
> > dean
> > Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:29 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)
> > 
> > Could very well be that people out there who are using or or interested in
> > using the pressurized ink carts ( me), as used by the 10K series could
> > find
> > their sources of these "patented?" devices removed from the market. But
> > of
> > far more concern is the new series of Epson's like the  7800- 9800 which
> > also
> > will use pressurized carts. Sure, they want to make it as difficult as
> > possible for
> > others to compete.
> > 
> > John
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <
> > paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > > MIS believes the Chinese company that produces the clear carts has a
> > valid
> > > patent on its design.  MIS is more worried about a price increase from
> > this
> > > company as the other knock-off competitors get wiped out by Epson.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > www.PaulRoark.com
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> > section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-26 by Paul Roark

Costa,

My final rinse of the 7600 carts is with the ink I'm going to fill the cart
with.  So, I waste about 10 cc of ink, but I think that "dilutes" the
residual water to the point where it'll be irrelevant with 100 cc of ink in
the cart.

By the way, I'm finding the MIS adapter with the tubing stuck on the end to
work fine, as long as there is a slight notch in the tubing.  If it is a
flat cut, it might get shut off by the inside of the cart valve.  I suspect
a diagonally-cut piece of tubing might be the best answer.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> ccolbertbw
> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 7:46 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)
> 
> Hi Paul,
> Care to elaborate? How do you get all the water out?
> Costa
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...>
> wrote:
> > The 7600 carts are so easy to rinse and re-use, that I may just end up
> using
> > Epson carts with MIS ink.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> john
> > > dean
> > > Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:29 AM
> > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)
> > >
> > > Could very well be that people out there who are using or or
> interested in
> > > using the pressurized ink carts ( me), as used by the 10K series could
> > > find
> > > their sources of these "patented?" devices removed from the market.
> But
> > > of
> > > far more concern is the new series of Epson's like the  7800- 9800
> which
> > > also
> > > will use pressurized carts. Sure, they want to make it as difficult as
> > > possible for
> > > others to compete.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <
> > > paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > > > MIS believes the Chinese company that produces the clear carts has a
> > > valid
> > > > patent on its design.  MIS is more worried about a price increase
> from
> > > this
> > > > company as the other knock-off competitors get wiped out by Epson.
> > > >
> > > > Paul
> > > > www.PaulRoark.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> resources as
> > > they are often being updated.
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
> to
> > > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
> same
> > > page.
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep
> > > them short.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> flames.
> > > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > > membership without notice.
> > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
> B&W
> > > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed
> from
> > > the membership.
> > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> > > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
> Owner
> > > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> > > section:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > >
> > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT
> > > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> > > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE
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Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson & Inks ( Major Concern)

2005-06-26 by Ernst Dinkla

Paul Roark wrote:

>Costa,
>
>My final rinse of the 7600 carts is with the ink I'm going to fill the cart
>with.  So, I waste about 10 cc of ink, but I think that "dilutes" the
>residual water to the point where it'll be irrelevant with 100 cc of ink in
>the cart.
>
>By the way, I'm finding the MIS adapter with the tubing stuck on the end to
>work fine, as long as there is a slight notch in the tubing.  If it is a
>flat cut, it might get shut off by the inside of the cart valve.  I suspect
>a diagonally-cut piece of tubing might be the best answer.
>
>Paul
>www.PaulRoark.com 
>  
>
The ink slot needle of the Epson has the hole at the side of the tip. 
When I empty the 10000CF or a 9600 cart, I use a Luer (like a syringe 
top) connection with a V cut in the top. That connector is pushed in the 
valve entrance and a tube of 5 feet underneath will pull out the ink 
into a bottle. Little ink is left then.
On the 10000 carts I put another tube on the pressure chamber inlet of 
the cart and blow the bag even more flat. For filling the cart is in a 
holder with a clamped syringe on top (no piston in the syringe) similar 
Luer connection added and the 220 or 500 ml  ink can be poured in quite 
easily. Air can later be taken out with a syringe.

Ernst

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