Digital BW, The Print

I'm a bit disappointed with my tests on Fuji-Hunt gloss paper and 
checking what is available here that has qualities similar to Costco 
Kirkland.
The Fuji-Hunt keeps it gloss quite acceptably but the Dmax stays low due 
to the not so high total gloss (1.78) after varnishing it goes up to 
2.17 which isn't bad but not like Kirkland as I understand it. The last 
isn't available here and the size is too small anyway.

Is there some firsthand experience with the Kodak gloss inkjet inks 
suitable for pigment inks. Not the Ultima but the Kodak Prof. Inkjet 
paper Gloss and Lustre 255 gr/m2. If not some experience then with the 
Kodak Premium High Gloss 230 gr/m2 ?

Ernst

Have you looked into Moab Kokopelli gloss? I have
found it to be a very acceptable medium. Sorry I have
no experience with the Kodak

Regards
Woody Spedden

--- Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
I'm a bit disappointed with my tests on Fuji-Hunt
gloss paper and 
checking what is available here that has qualities
similar to Costco 
Kirkland.
The Fuji-Hunt keeps it gloss quite acceptably but the
Dmax stays low due 
to the not so high total gloss (1.78) after varnishing
it goes up to 
2.17 which isn't bad but not like Kirkland as I
understand it. The last 
isn't available here and the size is too small anyway.

Is there some firsthand experience with the Kodak
gloss inkjet inks 
suitable for pigment inks. Not the Ultima but the
Kodak Prof. Inkjet 
paper Gloss and Lustre 255 gr/m2. If not some
experience then with the 
Kodak Premium High Gloss 230 gr/m2 ?

Ernst


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BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
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INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
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Hi Woody,

The Moab Kokopelli papers look very interesting and I'd be interested
in your impressions. Can you say a bit more about your experience
with this paper?

I'd appreciate any information about which printer & inkset you're
using, what kind of dMax you're getting, surface characteristics, etc.

Thanks very much!

Richard


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Elwood Spedden 
<elwood@w...> wrote:

> Have you looked into Moab Kokopelli gloss? I have
> found it to be a very acceptable medium. Sorry I have
> no experience with the Kodak
> 
> Regards
> Woody Spedden
> 
> --- Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> I'm a bit disappointed with my tests on Fuji-Hunt
> gloss paper and 
> checking what is available here that has qualities
> similar to Costco 
> Kirkland.
> The Fuji-Hunt keeps it gloss quite acceptably but the
> Dmax stays low due 
> to the not so high total gloss (1.78) after varnishing
> it goes up to 
> 2.17 which isn't bad but not like Kirkland as I
> understand it. The last 
> isn't available here and the size is too small anyway.
> 
> Is there some firsthand experience with the Kodak
> gloss inkjet inks 
> suitable for pigment inks. Not the Ultima but the
> Kodak Prof. Inkjet 
> paper Gloss and Lustre 255 gr/m2. If not some
> experience then with the 
> Kodak Premium High Gloss 230 gr/m2 ?
> 
> Ernst
>

Hey Richard

My 820 densitometer is down at the moment so I can't
give you DMax readings. I will have the unit repaired
shortly and will give you what I can. I do have some
13X19 sheets of the Kokopelli media and would be happy
to send you a couple of sheets. Email me your address
and I will send to you and you can draw your own
conclusions and give the rest of us your detailed
conclusions.

Thanks and regards
Woody Spedden
Fort Collins, CO

--- richard_h95050 <richardh@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
Hi Woody,

The Moab Kokopelli papers look very interesting and
I'd be interested
in your impressions. Can you say a bit more about your
experience
with this paper?

I'd appreciate any information about which printer &
inkset you're
using, what kind of dMax you're getting, surface
characteristics, etc.

Thanks very much!

Richard


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
Elwood Spedden 
<elwood@w...> wrote:
> Have you looked into Moab Kokopelli gloss? I have
> found it to be a very acceptable medium. Sorry I
have
> no experience with the Kodak
> 
> Regards
> Woody Spedden
> 
> --- Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> I'm a bit disappointed with my tests on Fuji-Hunt
> gloss paper and 
> checking what is available here that has qualities
> similar to Costco 
> Kirkland.
> The Fuji-Hunt keeps it gloss quite acceptably but
the
> Dmax stays low due 
> to the not so high total gloss (1.78) after
varnishing
> it goes up to 
> 2.17 which isn't bad but not like Kirkland as I
> understand it. The last 
> isn't available here and the size is too small
anyway.
> 
> Is there some firsthand experience with the Kodak
> gloss inkjet inks 
> suitable for pigment inks. Not the Ultima but the
> Kodak Prof. Inkjet 
> paper Gloss and Lustre 255 gr/m2. If not some
> experience then with the 
> Kodak Premium High Gloss 230 gr/m2 ?
> 
> Ernst
> 





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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
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UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd
OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN
IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY
OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.




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Hi Woody,

Thank you for your generous offer! I will email you the information 
directly, and will report the results back to the forum...

Regards,
Richard

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Elwood Spedden 
<elwood@w...> wrote:
> Hey Richard
> 
> My 820 densitometer is down at the moment so I can't
> give you DMax readings. I will have the unit repaired
> shortly and will give you what I can. I do have some
> 13X19 sheets of the Kokopelli media and would be happy
> to send you a couple of sheets. Email me your address
> and I will send to you and you can draw your own
> conclusions and give the rest of us your detailed
> conclusions.
> 
> Thanks and regards
> Woody Spedden
> Fort Collins, CO
> 
> --- richard_h95050 <richardh@j...> wrote:
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Hi Woody,
> 
> The Moab Kokopelli papers look very interesting and
> I'd be interested
> in your impressions. Can you say a bit more about your
> experience
> with this paper?
> 
> I'd appreciate any information about which printer &
> inkset you're
> using, what kind of dMax you're getting, surface
> characteristics, etc.
> 
> Thanks very much!
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> Elwood Spedden 
> <elwood@w...> wrote:
> > Have you looked into Moab Kokopelli gloss? I have
> > found it to be a very acceptable medium. Sorry I
> have
> > no experience with the Kodak
> > 
> > Regards
> > Woody Spedden
> > 
> > --- Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > ---------------------------------
> > I'm a bit disappointed with my tests on Fuji-Hunt
> > gloss paper and 
> > checking what is available here that has qualities
> > similar to Costco 
> > Kirkland.
> > The Fuji-Hunt keeps it gloss quite acceptably but
> the
> > Dmax stays low due 
> > to the not so high total gloss (1.78) after
> varnishing
> > it goes up to 
> > 2.17 which isn't bad but not like Kirkland as I
> > understand it. The last 
> > isn't available here and the size is too small
> anyway.
> > 
> > Is there some firsthand experience with the Kodak
> > gloss inkjet inks 
> > suitable for pigment inks. Not the Ultima but the
> > Kodak Prof. Inkjet 
> > paper Gloss and Lustre 255 gr/m2. If not some
> > experience then with the 
> > Kodak Premium High Gloss 230 gr/m2 ?
> > 
> > Ernst
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
> and other resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily
> digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your
> Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of
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> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal
> attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or
> argumentative users may be removed from the membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group
> topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently
> make off-topic posts may be removed from the
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> group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the
> actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in
> the Files section:
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> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
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"MODERATORS"

> OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
> SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING
> BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN
> IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY
> OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
> INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
> GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
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> PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
> TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
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Hi Ernst,

I happened to have some Kodak paper you mentioned and out
of curiosity I tried out MIS PK with a coat of GLOP on it
to see what I get. Here are some of the measured dmax'es:

Costco Kirkland:     2.59
Kodak Premium HG:    2.36
Ilford Smooth Pearl: 2.66

I think I can get higher dmax on the Kodak if I use more
GLOP on it by overprinting with a layer of GLOP using
a darker gray. I'm using a gray of RGB=100,100,100 to
apply the GLOP using a QTR profile which sets all four
jets firing equally on an 1160 which is now my GLOP machine.

The Kodak which is most likely a swellable polymer just soaks
up so much GLOP. The Kirkland can probably use a little more
GLOP, but it seems to be minimally required for the Ilford.

--nick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:

> I'm a bit disappointed with my tests on Fuji-Hunt
> gloss paper and checking what is available here that
> has qualities similar to Costco Kirkland. The
> Fuji-Hunt keeps it gloss quite acceptably but the
> Dmax stays low due to the not so high total gloss
> (1.78) after varnishing it goes up to 2.17 which
> isn't bad but not like Kirkland as I understand it.
> The last isn't available here and the size is too
> small anyway.
> 
> Is there some firsthand experience with the Kodak
> gloss inkjet inks suitable for pigment inks. Not the
> Ultima but the Kodak Prof. Inkjet paper Gloss and
> Lustre 255 gr/m2. If not some experience then with
> the Kodak Premium High Gloss 230 gr/m2 ?
> 
> Ernst

Nick H. Nugent wrote:

>Hi Ernst,
>
>I happened to have some Kodak paper you mentioned and out
>of curiosity I tried out MIS PK with a coat of GLOP on it
>to see what I get. Here are some of the measured dmax'es:
>
>Costco Kirkland:     2.59
>Kodak Premium HG:    2.36
>Ilford Smooth Pearl: 2.66
>
>I think I can get higher dmax on the Kodak if I use more
>GLOP on it by overprinting with a layer of GLOP using
>a darker gray. I'm using a gray of RGB=100,100,100 to
>apply the GLOP using a QTR profile which sets all four
>jets firing equally on an 1160 which is now my GLOP machine.
>
>The Kodak which is most likely a swellable polymer just soaks
>up so much GLOP. The Kirkland can probably use a little more
>GLOP, but it seems to be minimally required for the Ilford.
>
>--nick
>
>  
>
Nick,

Thank you. Very nice numbers. Is the initial Dmax without GLOP best on 
the Ilford too ?  I thought Kirkland had the best without GLOP.

Ernst

Any opinions about an Epson 1270 used as a GLOP machine?  I am not pleased
with my skill at applying artshield, and looking to try something different.
I do have HVLP, but print so few images that I have not tried it on prints
just to avoid cleaning it.  I suppose my low usage would result in a clogged
GLOP printer as well…

John

-----Original Message-----
 Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Kodak Prof Gloss inkjet paper, any experience ?

an 1160 which is now my GLOP machine.

--nick




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi John;

I used the K head in my 1280 that way for my initial experiments 
with glop. It works quite well. Two things to look  out for-the 
pizza wheels leave marks, sothey have to come out if you haven't 
already removed them. The other problem: the K head with the glop in 
it didn't clog up, by I think the accumulation of clop on the 
cleaning pad caused the other channels to clog up progressively 
worse. If I did it again I would get a spare color ez-fill cart and 
fill it with windex, justto avoid serious problems later. All-in-all 
I was quite happy with the way it worked out, and may go this route 
again as I'm not using the 1280 much right now.

Regards,

Steve Karafyllakis


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody" 
<moodymz3@y...> wrote:
> Any opinions about an Epson 1270 used as a GLOP machine?  I am not 
pleased
> with my skill at applying artshield, and looking to try something 
different.
> I do have HVLP, but print so few images that I have not tried it 
on prints
> just to avoid cleaning it.  I suppose my low usage would result in 
a clogged
> GLOP printer as well?
> 
> John
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Kodak Prof Gloss inkjet paper, any 
experience ?

> 
> an 1160 which is now my GLOP machine.
> 
> --nick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven 
Karafyllakis" <steve@s...> wrote:
> I was quite happy with the way it worked out, and may go this route 
> again as I'm not using the 1280 much right now.
> 

Why not fill them all with GLOP? Though the idea of putting windex or 
other cleaning fluid in some of the "colors" is a good one, just make 
sure you don't print with those colors.

Hello Ernst,

I think they're very close, but you're probably right that without
GLOP the Kirkland maybe even higher. Then again I used probably only
about 30% of GLOP on all papers which may not be ideal for both the
Kodak and Kirkland. By printing a GLOP gradient I found the Ilford
maxed out at 30% but I haven't done this for other papers. I will
probably try to figure out ideal GLOP densities for them some time later.

--nick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:

> Nick,
> 
> Thank you. Very nice numbers. Is the initial Dmax without GLOP best on 
> the Ilford too ?  I thought Kirkland had the best without GLOP.
> 
> Ernst

You may actually get much better clarity and increase in dmax by
loading all positions with GLOP. Better yet create either a QTR or
IJC/OPM profile for this purpose. For example using QTR I create a
profile with K as a gray ink and the rest duplicate K's curve. This
ensures all nozzles firing at the same rate with maximum coverage.

Then I create a grayscale to apply the GLOP on a target and measure
where the dmax maxes out. This is so you won't waste too much GLOP
unnecessarily.

The GLOP applied by my dedicated printer is much superior than that my
R1800 is giving right now. Now I don't use glop in the R1800 for
critical prints but use the GLOP printer instead. The MIS GLOP is not
as shiny as the Epson OEM one so it actually works out really well.

When QTR or IJC/OPM fully support the R1800 I will replace the glop
with a light gray, or maybe turn the MK, PK, and GLOP into a K3 setup.
Now that's a quick hack to convert my R1800 into a 2400.

--nick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting"
<dfaprinting@y...> wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven 
> Karafyllakis" <steve@s...> wrote:
> > I was quite happy with the way it worked out, and may go this route 
> > again as I'm not using the 1280 much right now.
> > 
> 
> Why not fill them all with GLOP? Though the idea of putting windex or 
> other cleaning fluid in some of the "colors" is a good one, just make 
> sure you don't print with those colors.

I don't see any problem. To simplify the setup just load all positions
with GLOP. About clogging...I really have no idea. So far I haven't
experienced any clogging even with such an old workhorse like the
1160. And I'm not a regular printer either.

Some member observed that the GLOP on the head parking pad is causing
some clogging of nozzles though they are not loaded with GLOP. I think
there is some truth to it. I find my GLOP printer lose perfect nozzle
checks quicker than others but nothing that can't be cured by a
cleaning cycle. I don't know about long term usage though. It may be a
good idea to run purging carts through the head at every refill.

--nick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody"
<moodymz3@y...> wrote:

> Any opinions about an Epson 1270 used as a GLOP machine?  I am not 
> pleased with my skill at applying artshield, and looking to try 
> something different. I do have HVLP, but print so few images that I 
> have not tried it on prints just to avoid cleaning it.  I suppose my
> low usage would result in a clogged GLOP printer as well

> 
> John

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" 
<dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven 
> Karafyllakis" <steve@s...> wrote:
> > I was quite happy with the way it worked out, and may go this route 
> > again as I'm not using the 1280 much right now.
> > 
> 
> Why not fill them all with GLOP? Though the idea of putting windex or 
> other cleaning fluid in some of the "colors" is a good one, just make 
> sure you don't print with those colors.

I think its overkill-you can get more glop than you need out of the K 
channel controlled by the sliders. You don't neccessarily need more 
nozzles, but control by a (QTR or IJC) curve would have some advantages 
I can see: the lay-down needed isn't really linear; I've found that the 
almost- black ares, the heavy overlap areas around 80-90% need a bit 
more glop than areas on either side; otherwise you sometimes get a 
drying effect that leaves that zone matte, and you have to deal with it 
later. A curve would also allow you to taper off the glop in the 
highlights, cutting it off ar paper white, thus avoiding the slight 
yellowing effect of the glop on light areas. But I think you can do all 
that with just the K cart, provided, as you said, you remember not to 
print six-color.

Steve Karafyllakis

Steve Karafyllakis

Ernst Dinkla wrote:

>I'm a bit disappointed with my tests on Fuji-Hunt gloss paper and 
>checking what is available here that has qualities similar to Costco 
>Kirkland.
>The Fuji-Hunt keeps it gloss quite acceptably but the Dmax stays low due 
>to the not so high total gloss (1.78) after varnishing it goes up to 
>2.17 which isn't bad but not like Kirkland as I understand it. The last 
>isn't available here and the size is too small anyway.
>
>Is there some firsthand experience with the Kodak gloss inkjet inks 
>suitable for pigment inks. Not the Ultima but the Kodak Prof. Inkjet 
>paper Gloss and Lustre 255 gr/m2. If not some experience then with the 
>Kodak Premium High Gloss 230 gr/m2 ?
>
>Ernst
>
>  
>
It looks like most of the disappointed results with the Fuji-Hunt gloss 
paper is due to the lower gloss of MIS PK.  The same paper printed with 
an Epson 4000 UC and PhotoBlack gives L 6.5 is approx. 2.16 D right away 
without varnish or glop. It will probably be even better with the 4800 
UC PhotoBlack.

The Kodak Rapid Dry Premium Lustre and 7600 UC Photo Black gives 2.08 D.

Both with the resp. Epson drivers and normal RGB color profiles.

I wonder whether it is worth to try further gloss printing tests 
(changing inks to the 4800 set) with the Epson 9000 B&W printer that I 
have. There may be more going on in gloss printing by weaving etc that 
will not give the same results with the 9000 compared to a 4000 or 4800 
despite the same inks.

Ernst

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla 
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
> I wonder whether it is worth to try further gloss printing tests 
> (changing inks to the 4800 set) with the Epson 9000 B&W printer 
that I 
> have. There may be more going on in gloss printing by weaving etc 
that 
> will not give the same results with the 9000 compared to a 4000 or 
4800 
> despite the same inks.
> 
> Ernst

Here is something you might try if you do change over... Try setting 
a small pause between passes, and only print unidirectional. The 
extra dry time between the passes may help achieve better gloss or 
better dmax. Some of this may depend on the ink you are using too.

dfaprinting wrote:

>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla 
><E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
>  
>
>>I wonder whether it is worth to try further gloss printing tests 
>>(changing inks to the 4800 set) with the Epson 9000 B&W printer 
>>    
>>
>that I 
>  
>
>>have. There may be more going on in gloss printing by weaving etc 
>>    
>>
>that 
>  
>
>>will not give the same results with the 9000 compared to a 4000 or 
>>    
>>
>4800 
>  
>
>>despite the same inks.
>>
>>Ernst
>>    
>>
>
>Here is something you might try if you do change over... Try setting 
>a small pause between passes, and only print unidirectional. The 
>extra dry time between the passes may help achieve better gloss or 
>better dmax. Some of this may depend on the ink you are using too.
>
>  
>
1440 dpi unidirectional on a 9000 is really slow. All inklimits are 
below 50% so there isn't much ink to dry either.

Ernst

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla 
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
> >
> 1440 dpi unidirectional on a 9000 is really slow. All inklimits are 
> below 50% so there isn't much ink to dry either.
> 
> Ernst

Saturated is still saturated no matter what the limits are. If you 
are running it right at the saturation level (just before the point 
where density levels off or starts to decrease again), you might find 
some small gains from slowing the machine down. But again, some of 
that may depend on your inks. With the next generation of inks from 
what you are using, I can see some improvements in slowing the 
machine down, for right now there are visible differences in the 
blues. For more extensive testing I need to get the RIP creator to 
make a couple of changes to the driver.

I also know exactly what the rate of print is for the 9(5)00 
printers, I still use a 9500. All depends on what you want, speed or 
quality. Trade a little of one for a little of the other.

dfaprinting wrote:

>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla 
><E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
>  
>
>>1440 dpi unidirectional on a 9000 is really slow. All inklimits are 
>>below 50% so there isn't much ink to dry either.
>>
>>Ernst
>>    
>>
>
>Saturated is still saturated no matter what the limits are. If you 
>are running it right at the saturation level (just before the point 
>where density levels off or starts to decrease again), you might find 
>some small gains from slowing the machine down. But again, some of 
>that may depend on your inks. 
>
The inklimit is set on 43% for the Photo Black. Measured without varnish 
that is in the middle of 4 readings of 1.78 D. With varnish it is at the 
top of 2.17 D the next square measures a lower 2.16 etc. Based on the 
varnish measurement there's nothing to gain above that, not with slower 
printing either as the gloss is there with the varnish. I've used a 50% 
overall ink limit on the second curve evaluation print to get a more 
gradual choice of those numbers. I doubt there's more to get with this 
ink and paper on this printer.

Ernst

Ernst,

>...
> It looks like most of the disappointed results with the Fuji-Hunt gloss
> paper is due to the lower gloss of MIS PK...

Have you tried the MIS PKN?  It still does not hold the gloss that the Epson
coated PK does, but it has a significantly better dmax on most glossy papers
than does the MIS PK.  The cool black also just looks deeper and does not
have a bronze reflection.
 
I don't know much about the Fuji-Hunt paper or the Kodak Prof Gloss inkjet
paper.  Are they acid free?  Do either have some unique properties?  I admit
some skepticism about claims from the old line companies when it comes to
digital products. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul Roark wrote:

>
>>It looks like most of the disappointed results with the Fuji-Hunt gloss
>>paper is due to the lower gloss of MIS PK...
>>    
>>
>
>Have you tried the MIS PKN?  It still does not hold the gloss that the Epson
>coated PK does, but it has a significantly better dmax on most glossy papers
>than does the MIS PK.  The cool black also just looks deeper and does not
>have a bronze reflection.
>  
>

>I don't know much about the Fuji-Hunt paper or the Kodak Prof Gloss inkjet
>paper.  Are they acid free?  Do either have some unique properties?  I admit
>some skepticism about claims from the old line companies when it comes to
>digital products. 
>  
>
Paul,

I'm checking the papers that are available here. That have an acceptable 
gloss, good Dmax, low gloss differential, low bronzing, all right out of 
the box without varnishing. It should be in roll size too. The Fuji-Hunt 
has that with my friend's 4000. The Kodak should have that according to 
someone on the wide format list. Right now I'm less interested in the 
archival properties but that may come. So far I have little done in 
gloss but there are some requests whether it is possible and it isn't 
for art. In color on the 10000 (with MIS 7600 inks) in fact but I'm 
trying to find the answer on the 9000 with a kind of MIS UT set as the 
PK is already loaded on that printer.

The other gloss black inks that I already have here are the original 
10000CF black and two 220 ml UC PK 9600 carts. I guess that for both the 
9000 and the 10000 I could better use the UC PK instead of the MIS PKN. 
More gloss and warmer so it fits the rest of the UT and keeps metamerism 
low on the 10000. The risk is that the rest of the MIS 7600 color + UT 
inks show less gloss than the UC PK. I'm happy with the matte printing 
of the 10000 and the 9000 both with the MIS inks + Eboni. If the UC PK 
is too much off in warmth compared to the UT grey inks below it then I 
can better forget using gloss on the 9000 B&W printer anyway.

The original 10000CF black ink isn't the right choice as the gloss will 
be lower than the UC PK, it is more neutral and the Dmax is probably too 
low. There are probably more issues too, it was the first Epson pigment 
ink and tried to be a universal solution so one may not expect too much 
of it.

Ernst