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Digital BW, The Print

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Re: [Digital BW] Advanced B&W was Re: 4800 v. UT7 1600 dpi scans

Re: [Digital BW] Advanced B&W was Re: 4800 v. UT7 1600 dpi scans

2005-06-28 by Bob Frost

Steve,

For comparison, here is a 21 point set of readings (i1 and MeasureTool) from 
the R2400 using Advanced B&W with the default settings of Neutral/Darker.



1      94.21    -0.20    -3.60
2      89.45    -0.02    -3.20
3      84.62    -0.01    -2.88
4      80.46    -0.03    -2.68
5      75.57    -0.07    -2.89
6      70.99    -0.35    -2.68
7      66.51    -0.10    -2.14
8      61.72    -0.30    -2.01
9      57.06    -0.53    -1.93
10    52.32    -0.44    -1.95
11    48.09    -0.49    -1.63
12    43.16    -0.58    -1.62
13    37.83    -0.36    -1.14
14    32.26    -0.40    -0.94
15    27.61    -0.41    -0.65
16    22.82    -0.27    -0.43
17    17.83    -0.18    -0.39
18    13.03     0.03    -0.35
19      8.57     0.21    -0.03
20      5.52     0.04     0.18
21      2.93    -0.07    -0.33

The cool shift is due to the paper (Premium Glossy) showing through the ink.

Bob Frost.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...>

For those who can read the numbers, here are the results of a Quickread of a
21-step wedge on ISP (sorry I am not going to change inks just to post the
results for matte paper).  You can see how the colour gets very warm in the
middle and very cool as they paper comes through in the highlights.


 L       a       b       V
 95.66  -0.36    -5.31   0.05
 87.35  -0.25    -4.48   0.15
 82.25  -0.39    -3.32   0.22
 77.53   -0.5     -2.27   0.28
 73.21  -0.62    -1.38   0.34
 68.93  -0.77    -0.46   0.41
 65.03  -0.89    0.41    0.47
 61.11  -0.99    1.41    0.53
 56.34  -1.15    2.65    0.62
 52.59  -1.21    3.77    0.68
 48.23  -1.17    5.26    0.77
 44.28  -0.94    6.71    0.85
 39.89  -0.5     8.09    0.95
 35.94  -0.07    8.85    1.04
 31.86  0.28     9.14    1.14
 26.18  0.45     8.67    1.31
 21.16  0.28     7.77    1.47
 15.91  0.05     6.89    1.67
 10.15  0.25     5.18    1.93
 4.64   0.02      1.04    2.29
 2.79   -0.18     -0.61   2.52

Re: [Digital BW] Advanced B&W was Re: 4800 v. UT7 1600 dpi scans

2005-06-29 by Bob Frost

Paul & Steve,

What sort of lab readings does one get using UT7 to print a 21point neutral 
grayscale?

Bob Frost.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 


Steve,

For comparison, here is a 21 point set of readings (i1 and MeasureTool) from
the R2400 using Advanced B&W with the default settings of Neutral/Darker.



1      94.21    -0.20    -3.60
2      89.45    -0.02    -3.20
3      84.62    -0.01    -2.88
4      80.46    -0.03    -2.68
5      75.57    -0.07    -2.89
6      70.99    -0.35    -2.68
7      66.51    -0.10    -2.14
8      61.72    -0.30    -2.01
9      57.06    -0.53    -1.93
10    52.32    -0.44    -1.95
11    48.09    -0.49    -1.63
12    43.16    -0.58    -1.62
13    37.83    -0.36    -1.14
14    32.26    -0.40    -0.94
15    27.61    -0.41    -0.65
16    22.82    -0.27    -0.43
17    17.83    -0.18    -0.39
18    13.03     0.03    -0.35
19      8.57     0.21    -0.03
20      5.52     0.04     0.18
21      2.93    -0.07    -0.33

The cool shift is due to the paper (Premium Glossy) showing through the ink.

Re: [Digital BW] Advanced B&W was Re: 4800 v. UT7 1600 dpi scans

2005-06-29 by Bob Frost

Following on my Lab readings post of a grayscale printed with the 
AdvancedB&W settings of the R2400, I have just repeated what I did with the 
R1800 - printed to file 28 gray patches ranging from 
0,5,10,20,30,.......................240,250,255.

The 'prints' were on Epson Premium Glossy, with PhotoRPM, and the default 
settings for AdvancedB&W (neutral/darker) on the R2400.

Looking at the printer files (with help from Roy Harrington) it seems that 
the three blacks are the main inks used throughout the scale.  The PK ink is 
used from 0-90, the lk ink from 0-170, and the llk ink from 20-250. No inks 
are used at 255 unless you check the Highlight Point Shift box, as I 
explained in an earlier post.

The neutral toning is done with light magenta and light cyan througout the 
whole range 0-250, and yellow is also used from 5-250. Amounts of toning are 
variable, but at 210 for example (where only the smallest dots are used for 
each ink) 72% of the ink was llk, 16% lm, 10% lc, and 1% Y. At 250, the llk 
was 82%, with 9% lm, 7.5% lc, and 1.5% Y.

Further down the scale, I can't directly compare the % of the different inks 
because the blacks, and occasionally the lm, use medium drops as well as 
fine, and I don't know the exact size ration of the three sizes of drops 
(does anyone else?), whereas the others usually use just fine drops.

So the use of the Y ink, which seems to worry some people, is in very small 
amounts, and we don't know whether this Y ink is better than the old ones or 
not as regards color shifts.

Hope the info is useful.

Bob Frost.

RE: [Digital BW] Advanced B&W was Re: 4800 v. UT7 1600 dpi scans

2005-06-29 by Paul Roark

Bob,

The Lab readings depend on the paper, curve and ink batch.  The "b" axis is
variable.  On the "a" axis I target a "neutral" tone (which I have generally
defined at cyan = yellow in CMY density measures) that has positive Lab "a"
that is less than 1.0).  A typical PhotoRag "neutral" curve midtone from my
7600 UT7 setup is (58, 0.23, 1.23).  For EEM a typical UT7 midtone would be
(76, 0.52, -1.05)  I'm using IJC for the 7600, so I don't have 21-step
prints for it.  (IJC use 26 steps).  

(These are from my 7600 IJC curves that are not that are not exactly
"neutral" at this point.  In fact, I seem to be moving to a slightly
warm-neutral for matte prints on rag paper.  For un-brightened paper like
UltraSmooth-PremierArt and Permajet Alpha-Innova Soft Texture (I think),
which I prefer, the curves are getting even a bit warmer.)

The general shape of the curves are essentially the Lab relative density
distribution for both IJC and my RGB curves.  My old curves use a visual
density 50% of 0.61, which is about L = 56.  In IJC there is a slider that
varies the gamma to whatever you want.

As I've been saying for some time, I may move closer to a L 50 for the 50%
midtone.  As I'm working up the digital images, that workflow may determine
this.  I keep those files in Adobe RGB as I work them up.  So, I'll probably
end up making curves that more closely match my Spyder2Pro-calibrated
monitor. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob
> Frost
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 6:33 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Advanced B&W was Re: 4800 v. UT7 1600 dpi scans
> 
> Paul & Steve,
> 
> What sort of lab readings does one get using UT7 to print a 21point
> neutral
> grayscale?
> 
> Bob Frost.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> For comparison, here is a 21 point set of readings (i1 and MeasureTool)
> from
> the R2400 using Advanced B&W with the default settings of Neutral/Darker.
> 
> 
> 
> 1      94.21    -0.20    -3.60
> 2      89.45    -0.02    -3.20
> 3      84.62    -0.01    -2.88
> 4      80.46    -0.03    -2.68
> 5      75.57    -0.07    -2.89
> 6      70.99    -0.35    -2.68
> 7      66.51    -0.10    -2.14
> 8      61.72    -0.30    -2.01
> 9      57.06    -0.53    -1.93
> 10    52.32    -0.44    -1.95
> 11    48.09    -0.49    -1.63
> 12    43.16    -0.58    -1.62
> 13    37.83    -0.36    -1.14
> 14    32.26    -0.40    -0.94
> 15    27.61    -0.41    -0.65
> 16    22.82    -0.27    -0.43
> 17    17.83    -0.18    -0.39
> 18    13.03     0.03    -0.35
> 19      8.57     0.21    -0.03
> 20      5.52     0.04     0.18
> 21      2.93    -0.07    -0.33
> 
> The cool shift is due to the paper (Premium Glossy) showing through the
> ink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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