Digital BW, The Print

There was a lot of discussion about grayscale profiles a while ago.
I've worked out a bunch of the details and have adapted the linearizing
code to create ICC files.

It is now part of the QTR package version 2.3 which has been just uploaded,
available for both Mac and PC.

QTR-Create-ICC  is the newest feature.  It creates grayscale ICC printing
profiles.  Although packaged as a QTR tool it is a general purpose program that
can accurately profile any B&W printing workflow.  The current version only 
supports the Eye-One/MeasureTool data format.  It uses the same target files
and reference files that the QTR linearizing function has always used. The profiles 
created do full Perceptual Intent mapping of the grayscale and allow Ink Black and 
Paper White simulation in SoftProofing.  See Eye-One folder in either Mac or PC
versions for information.

See the main download page and follow the link at the top to
the beta versions -- that's QTR version 2.3 

Roy

very cool indeed



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> 
wrote:

> 
> There was a lot of discussion about grayscale profiles a while ago.
> I've worked out a bunch of the details and have adapted the linearizing
> code to create ICC files.
> 
> It is now part of the QTR package version 2.3 which has been just uploaded,
> available for both Mac and PC.
> 
> QTR-Create-ICC  is the newest feature.  It creates grayscale ICC printing
> profiles.  Although packaged as a QTR tool it is a general purpose program that
> can accurately profile any B&W printing workflow.  The current version only 
> supports the Eye-One/MeasureTool data format.  It uses the same target files
> and reference files that the QTR linearizing function has always used. The profiles 
> created do full Perceptual Intent mapping of the grayscale and allow Ink Black and 
> Paper White simulation in SoftProofing.  See Eye-One folder in either Mac or PC
> versions for information.
> 
> See the main download page and follow the link at the top to
> the beta versions -- that's QTR version 2.3 
> 
> Roy

Is this a gray profile type or full color for softproofing the 
toning? Hopefully as time goes on it won't have to use the 
Measuretool file. Cool that it's a stand alone app. though.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" 
<dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
> Is this a gray profile type or full color for softproofing the 
> toning? Hopefully as time goes on it won't have to use the 
> Measuretool file. Cool that it's a stand alone app. though.

It's just a grayscale profile, no color.
MeasureTool seems like the simplest input format, but formats
from other reading programs are certainly a possibility.

Roy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" 
<roy@h...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" 
> <dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
> > Is this a gray profile type or full color for softproofing the 
> > toning? Hopefully as time goes on it won't have to use the 
> > Measuretool file. Cool that it's a stand alone app. though.
> 
> It's just a grayscale profile, no color.
> MeasureTool seems like the simplest input format, but formats
> from other reading programs are certainly a possibility.
> 
> Roy

Are there other tools available? I tried Quickread (for windows), but 
it only gave me a beta expired (or something like that) error. 
ColorshopX will read in scanning mode, but it doesn't know anything 
about the chart, so if you scan very slow, you get extra reads, and 
if you scan too faster, you don't get all the patches. Too bad GMB 
won't release a very basic reader that works in both scanning mode, 
and in single read mode, just like Xrite's Toolcrib utility.

dfaprinting wrote:

>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" 
><roy@h...> wrote:
>  
>
>>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" 
>><dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Is this a gray profile type or full color for softproofing the 
>>>toning? Hopefully as time goes on it won't have to use the 
>>>Measuretool file. Cool that it's a stand alone app. though.
>>>      
>>>
>>It's just a grayscale profile, no color.
>>MeasureTool seems like the simplest input format, but formats
>>from other reading programs are certainly a possibility.
>>
>>Roy
>>    
>>
>
>Are there other tools available? I tried Quickread (for windows), but 
>it only gave me a beta expired (or something like that) error. 
>ColorshopX will read in scanning mode, but it doesn't know anything 
>about the chart, so if you scan very slow, you get extra reads, and 
>if you scan too faster, you don't get all the patches. Too bad GMB 
>won't release a very basic reader that works in both scanning mode, 
>and in single read mode, just like Xrite's Toolcrib utility.
>
>  
>
Is Babelcolor an option ? Not expensive and with lots of nice features 
for the Eye-One, Mac and Windows. Not that I could use it, they do not 
support the SpectroCam as there isn't enough demand for the support. Of 
course if more SpectroCam users asked for that support ..........

www.Babelcolor.com


	



  *BabelColor^\ufffd ,
  color translation and analysis*

*Version 2.5
*for Mac and Windows (June 20, 2005)

*New features:*
Eye-One 
<http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/index/products/products_color-mgmt-spec.htm>^TM 
input and spectral tools (screen shots 
<http://www.babelcolor.com/main_level/screen_shots.htm#Spectral_tools>), 
including:
(Eye-One purchased separately. All the features of the previous versions 
are still available if you do not have an Eye-One)

    - spectral graphs (emission, ambient, reflectance),
    - density readings and functions (print contrast, trap, etc.),
    - illumination evaluation (ISO 3664),
    - monitor and ambient Color Temperature (CCT),
    - Color Rendering Index (CRI),
    - daylight simulator Quality Grade (CIE S 012),
    - Metamerism Index (MI),
    - Color Inconstancy Index (CII, CIECAT02),
    - RAL conversion,
    and more!



I have used the SpectroCam at patch reading for the linearisation of QTR 
as the Avantes software has that feature integrated. Usually it isn't 
that difficult to get strip reading data correct for most software as 
the leaders in the meaurement tables can be exchanged in a text edotor 
but so far it didn't take much time to get the QTR linerisation done. 
With the 729 or more patches of color profilers it is a different story. 
For that I use a converted HPGL plotter to drive the SpectroCam and the 
paper.

Ernst

Roy Harrington wrote:

>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" 
><dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
>  
>
>>Is this a gray profile type or full color for softproofing the 
>>toning? Hopefully as time goes on it won't have to use the 
>>Measuretool file. Cool that it's a stand alone app. though.
>>    
>>
>
>It's just a grayscale profile, no color.
>MeasureTool seems like the simplest input format, but formats
>from other reading programs are certainly a possibility.
>
>Roy
>  
>
Roy,

Very nice. I will download it today.

Ernst

Roy

I followed your instructions for downloading the
measure tool from GretagMacbeth. When I installed it,
the measure function is not actually available. Do you
know if Gretag has changed and you can no longer use
measure without a dongle?

Woody Spedden

--- Roy Harrington <roy@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
"dfaprinting" 
<dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
> Is this a gray profile type or full color for
softproofing the 
> toning? Hopefully as time goes on it won't have to
use the 
> Measuretool file. Cool that it's a stand alone app.
though.

It's just a grayscale profile, no color.
MeasureTool seems like the simplest input format, but
formats
from other reading programs are certainly a
possibility.

Roy





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BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
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INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
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PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.


  

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---------------------------------

Hi Roy,

QTR-Create-ICC is really a great addition to QTR and an invaluable  
tool for other B&W workflows as well.  I made an icc profile for the  
Epson 2400 (replaced my old 2200), using the ADV BW mode and it  
really improved the linearity and opened up the shadows.  I also  
installed the 2400 as a QTR USB printer (using firewire for the Epson  
driver) but I haven't made any QTR profiles yet.  Is version 2.3  
fully functional for the 2400?  I assume that profiling is pretty  
much the same, except for the new 8 ink inksep file and adding LLK as  
the 3rd gray in the partitioning.

Carl

On Jul 9, 2005, at 9:19 PM, Roy Harrington wrote:

>
> There was a lot of discussion about grayscale profiles a while ago.
> I've worked out a bunch of the details and have adapted the  
> linearizing
> code to create ICC files.
>
> It is now part of the QTR package version 2.3 which has been just  
> uploaded,
> available for both Mac and PC.
>
> QTR-Create-ICC  is the newest feature.  It creates grayscale ICC  
> printing
> profiles.  Although packaged as a QTR tool it is a general purpose  
> program that
> can accurately profile any B&W printing workflow.  The current  
> version only
> supports the Eye-One/MeasureTool data format.  It uses the same  
> target files
> and reference files that the QTR linearizing function has always  
> used. The profiles
> created do full Perceptual Intent mapping of the grayscale and  
> allow Ink Black and
> Paper White simulation in SoftProofing.  See Eye-One folder in  
> either Mac or PC
> versions for information.
>
> See the main download page and follow the link at the top to
> the beta versions -- that's QTR version 2.3
>
> Roy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello, I only see the version 2.2f for windows inthe Roy site
Could some one post a download link please?
Thanks


Could

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield 
<scho@m...> wrote:
> Hi Roy,
> 
> QTR-Create-ICC is really a great addition to QTR and an invaluable  
> tool for other B&W workflows as well.  I made an icc profile for 
the  
> Epson 2400 (replaced my old 2200), using the ADV BW mode and it  
> really improved the linearity and opened up the shadows.  I also  
> installed the 2400 as a QTR USB printer (using firewire for the 
Epson  
> driver) but I haven't made any QTR profiles yet.  Is version 2.3  
> fully functional for the 2400?  I assume that profiling is pretty  
> much the same, except for the new 8 ink inksep file and adding LLK 
as  
> the 3rd gray in the partitioning.
> 
> Carl
> 
> On Jul 9, 2005, at 9:19 PM, Roy Harrington wrote:
> 
> >
> > There was a lot of discussion about grayscale profiles a while 
ago.
> > I've worked out a bunch of the details and have adapted the  
> > linearizing
> > code to create ICC files.
> >
> > It is now part of the QTR package version 2.3 which has been 
just  
> > uploaded,
> > available for both Mac and PC.
> >
> > QTR-Create-ICC  is the newest feature.  It creates grayscale ICC  
> > printing
> > profiles.  Although packaged as a QTR tool it is a general 
purpose  

> > program that
> > can accurately profile any B&W printing workflow.  The current  
> > version only
> > supports the Eye-One/MeasureTool data format.  It uses the same  
> > target files
> > and reference files that the QTR linearizing function has always  
> > used. The profiles
> > created do full Perceptual Intent mapping of the grayscale and  
> > allow Ink Black and
> > Paper White simulation in SoftProofing.  See Eye-One folder in  
> > either Mac or PC
> > versions for information.
> >
> > See the main download page and follow the link at the top to
> > the beta versions -- that's QTR version 2.3
> >
> > Roy
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Same site as for 2.2f but navigate to the Quadtone
beta page. You will find 2.3f there.

woodyspedden

--- copal01 <copal01@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
Hello, I only see the version 2.2f for windows inthe
Roy site
Could some one post a download link please?
Thanks


Could

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
Carl Schofield 
<scho@m...> wrote:
> Hi Roy,
> 
> QTR-Create-ICC is really a great addition to QTR and
an invaluable  
> tool for other B&W workflows as well.  I made an icc
profile for 
the  
> Epson 2400 (replaced my old 2200), using the ADV BW
mode and it  
> really improved the linearity and opened up the
shadows.  I also  
> installed the 2400 as a QTR USB printer (using
firewire for the 
Epson  
> driver) but I haven't made any QTR profiles yet.  Is
version 2.3  
> fully functional for the 2400?  I assume that
profiling is pretty  
> much the same, except for the new 8 ink inksep file
and adding LLK 
as  
> the 3rd gray in the partitioning.
> 
> Carl
> 
> On Jul 9, 2005, at 9:19 PM, Roy Harrington wrote:
> 
> >
> > There was a lot of discussion about grayscale
profiles a while 
ago.
> > I've worked out a bunch of the details and have
adapted the  
> > linearizing
> > code to create ICC files.
> >
> > It is now part of the QTR package version 2.3
which has been 
just  
> > uploaded,
> > available for both Mac and PC.
> >
> > QTR-Create-ICC  is the newest feature.  It creates
grayscale ICC  
> > printing
> > profiles.  Although packaged as a QTR tool it is a
general 
purpose  
> > program that
> > can accurately profile any B&W printing workflow. 
The current  
> > version only
> > supports the Eye-One/MeasureTool data format.  It
uses the same  
> > target files
> > and reference files that the QTR linearizing
function has always  
> > used. The profiles
> > created do full Perceptual Intent mapping of the
grayscale and  
> > allow Ink Black and
> > Paper White simulation in SoftProofing.  See
Eye-One folder in  
> > either Mac or PC
> > versions for information.
> >
> > See the main download page and follow the link at
the top to
> > the beta versions -- that's QTR version 2.3
> >
> > Roy
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]




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Please follow these basic guidelines:
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- Good manners are required at all time. No personal
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without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group
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make off-topic posts may be removed from the
membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the
group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the
actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in
the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY
UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd
OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN
IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY
OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.


    
    
---------------------------------
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    Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on
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---------------------------------

Hi Carl,

Great to hear you tried it with Adv B&W.  I think it should be a good benefit
there.  BO printing would probably benefit too.

I think the 2400 should work but I haven't got a hold of one yet.  The local
store will let me test once they have one.  But I have done a fair amount of
checking out the windows driver to see what parameters to use.

Profiling is similar -- you found the new separation page and new ink name.
The 4800-UC folder has a few starter profiles that may transfer over.

Roy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <scho@m...> 
wrote:

> Hi Roy,
> 
> QTR-Create-ICC is really a great addition to QTR and an invaluable  
> tool for other B&W workflows as well.  I made an icc profile for the  
> Epson 2400 (replaced my old 2200), using the ADV BW mode and it  
> really improved the linearity and opened up the shadows.  I also  
> installed the 2400 as a QTR USB printer (using firewire for the Epson  
> driver) but I haven't made any QTR profiles yet.  Is version 2.3  
> fully functional for the 2400?  I assume that profiling is pretty  
> much the same, except for the new 8 ink inksep file and adding LLK as  
> the 3rd gray in the partitioning.
> 
> Carl
> 
> On Jul 9, 2005, at 9:19 PM, Roy Harrington wrote:
> 
> >
> > There was a lot of discussion about grayscale profiles a while ago.
> > I've worked out a bunch of the details and have adapted the  
> > linearizing
> > code to create ICC files.
> >
> > It is now part of the QTR package version 2.3 which has been just  
> > uploaded,
> > available for both Mac and PC.
> >
> > QTR-Create-ICC  is the newest feature.  It creates grayscale ICC  
> > printing
> > profiles.  Although packaged as a QTR tool it is a general purpose  
> > program that
> > can accurately profile any B&W printing workflow.  The current  
> > version only
> > supports the Eye-One/MeasureTool data format.  It uses the same  
> > target files
> > and reference files that the QTR linearizing function has always  
> > used. The profiles
> > created do full Perceptual Intent mapping of the grayscale and  
> > allow Ink Black and
> > Paper White simulation in SoftProofing.  See Eye-One folder in  
> > either Mac or PC
> > versions for information.
> >
> > See the main download page and follow the link at the top to
> > the beta versions -- that's QTR version 2.3
> >
> > Roy
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" 
<dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" 
> <roy@h...> wrote:
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" 
> > <dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
> > > Is this a gray profile type or full color for softproofing the 
> > > toning? Hopefully as time goes on it won't have to use the 
> > > Measuretool file. Cool that it's a stand alone app. though.
> > 
> > It's just a grayscale profile, no color.
> > MeasureTool seems like the simplest input format, but formats
> > from other reading programs are certainly a possibility.
> > 
> > Roy
> 
> Are there other tools available? I tried Quickread (for windows), but 
> it only gave me a beta expired (or something like that) error. 
> ColorshopX will read in scanning mode, but it doesn't know anything 
> about the chart, so if you scan very slow, you get extra reads, and 
> if you scan too faster, you don't get all the patches. Too bad GMB 
> won't release a very basic reader that works in both scanning mode, 
> and in single read mode, just like Xrite's Toolcrib utility.

I've played around with Quickread a little and it's a new app.   But I think
MeasureTool has some advantages.  The Reference Files provide some
error checking when you scan so if you get a scan error it tells you
rather than having to look at the data.  The Ref file also allows the Gray
step values to be put into the output file so the ICC doesn't have to guess
which readings go with which steps.

I haven't used Toolcrib but from what I hear I should see if I can support
it's data output.

Roy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla 
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
> Is Babelcolor an option ? Not expensive and with lots of nice 
features 
> for the Eye-One, Mac and Windows. Not that I could use it, they do 
not 
> support the SpectroCam as there isn't enough demand for the 
support. Of 
> course if more SpectroCam users asked for that support ..........
> 
> www.Babelcolor.com
> 
> 
> 	
> 
> 
> 

Not sure if it will work, but for the price I'll definitely give the 
demo a try! Thanks. If ColorshopX would allow you to define the 
number of patches in a row, it would be very nice. I'll have to send 
an email about that and the grayscale profile builder (since I 
figured out how it works), not that we need the grayscale builder for 
much anymore.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" 
<roy@h...> wrote:

> 
> I haven't used Toolcrib but from what I hear I should see if I can 
support
> it's data output.
> 
> Roy

Toolcrib only works with Xrite measuring devices and they say it is 
really just a diagnostic tool to talk to the device. It will allow 
you to measure in any of the modes directly supported by the hardware 
tool, and output those measurements to a text file with different 
delimiters. It can also export to any "front application" that will 
allow that type of export. With a DTP32R, or DTP22 that I've used it 
with, I normally just bring up notepad as the front app. and set for 
tab delimited data. ColorshopX does the same thing, and also adds 
placing each measurement into it's own scratchpad, and adds support 
for the GMB i1, only it doesn't look at a reference file for scanning 
mode, works great in single read mode. Not sure how well ColorshopX 
works with the Pulse, all the old Xrite scanners make the tool hold 
the patch per scan number, so it knows if there is an error before 
asking the software. Since the Pulse can read without a computer, I 
suspect that it too knows how many patches are in each scan. Toolcrib 
now supports the Pulse, as does ColorshopX, so you might find some 
people asking about using that tool.

Heidelberg Printopen 4 and newer will make a real grayscale profile 
from at least a CMYK target, not sure how it will react if I feed it 
a B/W version of that target, maybe I'll try it later today.

If you want, I can give you a text file from the output of 
ColorshopX. It can export spectral, L*a*b* and XYZ (maybe others like 
denisty), and I know Toolcrib (which I forgot to mention is FREE!) 
can do density and spectral and L*a*b* from tools like the DTP22. Now 
I mostly just use ColorshopX for anything like this, since it gives 
me a bunch of other useful tools that can all share the same 
measurements.

Roy

Which way did you go re the reference files?  (RGB or Grey?)  I will
download your latest version tomorrow...

Thanks

Steve

> From: Roy Harrington <roy@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 01:19:44 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] B&W Profiling -- Grayscale ICC Profiles
> 
> 
> There was a lot of discussion about grayscale profiles a while ago.
> I've worked out a bunch of the details and have adapted the linearizing
> code to create ICC files.
> 
> It is now part of the QTR package version 2.3 which has been just uploaded,
> available for both Mac and PC.
> 
> QTR-Create-ICC  is the newest feature.  It creates grayscale ICC printing
> profiles.  Although packaged as a QTR tool it is a general purpose program
> that
> can accurately profile any B&W printing workflow.  The current version only
> supports the Eye-One/MeasureTool data format.  It uses the same target files
> and reference files that the QTR linearizing function has always used. The
> profiles 
> created do full Perceptual Intent mapping of the grayscale and allow Ink Black
> and 
> Paper White simulation in SoftProofing.  See Eye-One folder in either Mac or
> PC
> versions for information.
> 
> See the main download page and follow the link at the top to
> the beta versions -- that's QTR version 2.3
> 
> Roy
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> Roy
> 
> Which way did you go re the reference files?  (RGB or Grey?)  I will
> download your latest version tomorrow...
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Steve
> 

See: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/646
13

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" 
<dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
> > Roy
> > 
> > Which way did you go re the reference files?  (RGB or Grey?)  I 
will
> > download your latest version tomorrow...
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Steve
> > 
> 
> See: 
> 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/646
> 13

OK maybe that isn't the answer after all. Profiles are gray type, not 
sure about the reference file yet.

Ok I couldn't wait and took a peep.  To answer my own question they are
grey.  If anyone wants a 100 step ref file and tiff image let me know.
Gotta run for now...

> From: dfaprinting <dfaprinting@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:36:42 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] B&W Profiling -- Grayscale ICC Profiles
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting"
> <dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
>> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
>>> Roy
>>> 
>>> Which way did you go re the reference files?  (RGB or Grey?)  I
> will
>>> download your latest version tomorrow...
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> 
>> 
>> See: 
>> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/646
>> 13
> 
> OK maybe that isn't the answer after all. Profiles are gray type, not
> sure about the reference file yet.
>

FYI  It would appear the linearise function in the 4800 profiles has been
commented out of action.  If one doesn't have an Eye One to do their own
linearisation to replace the values in the ink descriptor files put there by
Roy then one should presumably uncomment the Linearize function by removing
the # sign and rerunning the curves thereby using the values Roy has
entered....?

Roy, how do the Toner parts work without a toner curve?  I note in the Cool
curve you don't use the UC_Neutralizer route but do so for the others,
presumably because you wanted to use C and M to cool higher up the density
progression.  Does the UC_Neutralizer function copy LM, LC and Y to both the
LK and LLK curves?

Is the 4800 meant to be operational?  I just tried to print the calibration
page with a curve with which I had simply set the ink limits back to 100 and
changed CALIBRATION to YES.  I got very weird results:

K  only printed steps 80-100
C 65-100
M 65-100
LC/LM 0-100 but 70-100 gets lighter again
LK 30-94 with 90-95 lighter than 85
LLK 0-80 with 50-80 lighter than 45

I am sure I am doing something stupidly wrong but I am sure I chose QTR
Calibration to print the page.

Even though CALIBRATION=YES it is not producing a calib curve (hence the
weird output).

> From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:31:45 +0100
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] B&W Profiling -- Grayscale ICC Profiles
> 
> Is the 4800 meant to be operational?  I just tried to print the calibration
> page with a curve with which I had simply set the ink limits back to 100 and
> changed CALIBRATION to YES.  I got very weird results:
> 
> K  only printed steps 80-100
> C 65-100
> M 65-100
> LC/LM 0-100 but 70-100 gets lighter again
> LK 30-94 with 90-95 lighter than 85
> LLK 0-80 with 50-80 lighter than 45
> 
> I am sure I am doing something stupidly wrong but I am sure I chose QTR
> Calibration to print the page.
>

If I recall it correctly all variables except "N_OF_INKS=8" and
"N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=8" 
should be left blank for the first calibration print.

Hope it works this way.

Andreas



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> 
wrote:
> Is the 4800 meant to be operational?  I just tried to print the
calibration
> page with a curve with which I had simply set the ink limits back
to 100 and
> changed CALIBRATION to YES.  I got very weird results:
> 
> K  only printed steps 80-100
> C 65-100
> M 65-100
> LC/LM 0-100 but 70-100 gets lighter again
> LK 30-94 with 90-95 lighter than 85
> LLK 0-80 with 50-80 lighter than 45
> 
> I am sure I am doing something stupidly wrong but I am sure I chose
QTR
> Calibration to print the page.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> 
wrote:
> Even though CALIBRATION=YES it is not producing a calib curve (hence the
> weird output).
> 


Sorry about the calib confusion -- I haven't used the calib curves for quite a while.  

One of the major new things in 2.3 is more shared code between Mac and PC.

Anyway the calib profiles were one of the harder things to explain and the 
source of more confusion than they were worth.   So one of the things 
that was added a while ago on the PC side was to just select the Calibration 
Mode and leave the curves as None.  Then the Blend value is essentially the 
ink limit used for all the inks.   (you can think of it as Curve1 = 100% and 
Curve2 = 0% and blend as before). 

This feature was also ported back to Mac a while ago but with 2.3 the calib
profiles disappeared altogether.  The new way is so much easier the old
calib files don't seem to me to be needed.

Roy

Roy,
   If I understand this correctly, does this mean that the ink limits will be the 
same for all the inks? thanks,
Costa


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> 
wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> 
> wrote:
> > Even though CALIBRATION=YES it is not producing a calib curve (hence the
> > weird output).
> > 
> 
> 
> Sorry about the calib confusion -- I haven't used the calib curves for quite a while.  
> 
> One of the major new things in 2.3 is more shared code between Mac and PC.
> 
> Anyway the calib profiles were one of the harder things to explain and the 
> source of more confusion than they were worth.   So one of the things 
> that was added a while ago on the PC side was to just select the Calibration 
> Mode and leave the curves as None.  Then the Blend value is essentially the 
> ink limit used for all the inks.   (you can think of it as Curve1 = 100% and 
> Curve2 = 0% and blend as before). 
> 
> This feature was also ported back to Mac a while ago but with 2.3 the calib
> profiles disappeared altogether.  The new way is so much easier the old
> calib files don't seem to me to be needed.
> 
> Roy

Let me make sure I've got this correct.  The first step in the calibration process is now to 
print the inkseparation file using the following setup:

ModeL  QuadTone RIP Calibration
Curve 1: None
Curve 2: None
Tone Blend 100-0
Ink Limit Adj 0
Gamma Adj 0

Is that it?  



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> 
wrote:

> 
> Sorry about the calib confusion -- I haven't used the calib curves for quite a while.  
> 
> One of the major new things in 2.3 is more shared code between Mac and PC.
> 
> Anyway the calib profiles were one of the harder things to explain and the 
> source of more confusion than they were worth.   So one of the things 
> that was added a while ago on the PC side was to just select the Calibration 
> Mode and leave the curves as None.  Then the Blend value is essentially the 
> ink limit used for all the inks.   (you can think of it as Curve1 = 100% and 
> Curve2 = 0% and blend as before). 
> 
> This feature was also ported back to Mac a while ago but with 2.3 the calib
> profiles disappeared altogether.  The new way is so much easier the old
> calib files don't seem to me to be needed.
> 
> Roy

Right.  Then you see where there is too much ink, say 65.
Print again with Tone Blend = 65.  From this print you can
do all the density comparisions.   In the final profile you'll probably 
then use 65 as the base ink limit.  You can of course reduce toner ink
limits to whatever you want.

Roy


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "edrudolpho" 
<erudolph@p...> wrote:
> Let me make sure I've got this correct.  The first step in the calibration process is 
now to 
> print the inkseparation file using the following setup:
> 
> ModeL  QuadTone RIP Calibration
> Curve 1: None
> Curve 2: None
> Tone Blend 100-0
> Ink Limit Adj 0
> Gamma Adj 0
> 
> Is that it?  
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" 
<roy@h...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > Sorry about the calib confusion -- I haven't used the calib curves for quite a 
while.  

> > 
> > One of the major new things in 2.3 is more shared code between Mac and PC.
> > 
> > Anyway the calib profiles were one of the harder things to explain and the 
> > source of more confusion than they were worth.   So one of the things 
> > that was added a while ago on the PC side was to just select the Calibration 
> > Mode and leave the curves as None.  Then the Blend value is essentially the 
> > ink limit used for all the inks.   (you can think of it as Curve1 = 100% and 
> > Curve2 = 0% and blend as before). 
> > 
> > This feature was also ported back to Mac a while ago but with 2.3 the calib
> > profiles disappeared altogether.  The new way is so much easier the old
> > calib files don't seem to me to be needed.
> > 
> > Roy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> 
wrote:
> 

> > Let me make sure I've got this correct.  The first step in the calibration process is 
> now to 
> > print the inkseparation file using the following setup:
> > 
> > ModeL  QuadTone RIP Calibration
> > Curve 1: None
> > Curve 2: None
> > Tone Blend 100-0
> > Ink Limit Adj 0
> > Gamma Adj 0
> > 

Roy, when I print a calibration file with the above setup, I'm getting all black ink, no toned 
inks at all.  I understand the ink limit calibration process from doing it in QTR 2.2, so I was 
surprised to be getting this all black step wedges on a dark gray background.  

Ed

I'll bet you colour managed the calibration file when you brought it into
PS....

> From: edrudolpho <erudolph@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:12:57 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Calibration Mode in QTR 2.3
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington"
> <roy@h...> 
> wrote:
>> 
> 
>>> Let me make sure I've got this correct.  The first step in the calibration
>>> process is 
>> now to 
>>> print the inkseparation file using the following setup:
>>> 
>>> ModeL  QuadTone RIP Calibration
>>> Curve 1: None
>>> Curve 2: None
>>> Tone Blend 100-0
>>> Ink Limit Adj 0
>>> Gamma Adj 0
>>> 
> 
> Roy, when I print a calibration file with the above setup, I'm getting all
> black ink, no toned
> inks at all.  I understand the ink limit calibration process from doing it in
> QTR 2.2, so I was
> surprised to be getting this all black step wedges on a dark gray background.
> 
> Ed

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "edrudolpho" 
<erudolph@p...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" 
<roy@h...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> 
> > > Let me make sure I've got this correct.  The first step in the calibration process 
is 
> > now to 
> > > print the inkseparation file using the following setup:
> > > 
> > > ModeL  QuadTone RIP Calibration
> > > Curve 1: None
> > > Curve 2: None
> > > Tone Blend 100-0
> > > Ink Limit Adj 0
> > > Gamma Adj 0
> > > 
> 
> Roy, when I print a calibration file with the above setup, I'm getting all black ink, no 
toned 
> inks at all.  I understand the ink limit calibration process from doing it in QTR 2.2, 
so I was 
> surprised to be getting this all black step wedges on a dark gray background.  
> 
> Ed

This sounds like the symptoms you get when the Calibration mode is NOT
set and you print the inkseparation page.  The OS always resets this mode
so you have to check it each time you print.

Roy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> 
wrote:
snip
> > > > 
> > > > ModeL  QuadTone RIP Calibration
> > > > Curve 1: None
> > > > Curve 2: None
> > > > Tone Blend 100-0
> > > > Ink Limit Adj 0
> > > > Gamma Adj 0
> > > > 
> > 
> > Roy, when I print a calibration file with the above setup, I'm getting all black ink, no 
>> toned inks at all.
> 
> This sounds like the symptoms you get when the Calibration mode is NOT
> set and you print the inkseparation page.  The OS always resets this mode
> so you have to check it each time you print.
> 
> Roy

That was it, thanks!  ...Ed

I need some help understanding this latest QTR advance.
I have been using a ColorVision Spyder (original) for monitor 
profiling, and PhotoCal for (color) print ICC profiles with my Epson 
1280.  Can't do B&W profiling with that setup. I have a (Monaco 
profiled) 1680 flatbed as well, and use a Nikon 8000.

I tried UT2/1280/with the Roark curves and was unsuccessful at 
achieving any kind of match with the monitor within my limit of 
patience, so moved on to QTR.  Using QTR and some fiddling with ink 
limit sliders I could get reasonably close match, and decent output, 
but I'd love to have a more rigorously profiled B&W system.

Does using the Eye-One Display (model one) being currently
remaindered allow this?  It would seem not, since it is an 'emissive' 
device, but I'm confused because of the Eye-One Photo which seems to 
include a spectrophotometer that measures reflective output as well 
as screens and transmission...

Roy's instruction files in QTR seem to call for measuring output 
patches on printed grayscales, which makes perfect sense, but I don't 
know if the Eye-One Display would allow that.  I can't afford the Eye-
One Photo setup at this point.

Any clarification/advice from the experienced?

thanks

ted


<roy@h...> wrote:

> QTR-Create-ICC  is the newest feature.  It creates grayscale ICC 
printing
> profiles.  Although packaged as a QTR tool it is a general purpose 
program that
> can accurately profile any B&W printing workflow.

The Colorsync list mentioned a new utility 'ColorPort' on the download 
pages of X-Rite that allows the creation of targets and measuring them 
with several meters and not just X-rite models. Direct data transport to 
Monaco Profiler is possible but it has more features. Not having an Eye 
One I can't test the measuring function but it must be possible to 
measure the QTR targets with it as well. Up to 8 channel targets 
possible. Default targets included, new can be created, target data can 
be imported for the creation. Much more features though.

Checked it yesterday evening to see whether I could use the target 
creation for the SpectroCam and the HPGL plotter that drives the meter 
and I think that could work. Measuring has to be done with SpectroCam 
software though.

http://www.xrite.com/support_downloads.aspx?Line=32


Ernst

Ernst,
Thanks for the info.
I just checked it with the eye-one on WinXP and it works fine.

Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ernst
Dinkla
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 4:45 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Another tool available for X-Rite an Eye One meters

The Colorsync list mentioned a new utility 'ColorPort' on the download
pages of X-Rite that allows the creation of targets and measuring them
with several meters and not just X-rite models. Direct data transport to
Monaco Profiler is possible but it has more features. Not having an Eye
One I can't test the measuring function but it must be possible to
measure the QTR targets with it as well. Up to 8 channel targets
possible. Default targets included, new can be created, target data can
be imported for the creation. Much more features though.

Checked it yesterday evening to see whether I could use the target
creation for the SpectroCam and the HPGL plotter that drives the meter
and I think that could work. Measuring has to be done with SpectroCam
software though.

http://www.xrite.com/support_downloads.aspx?Line=32


Ernst






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, downloading it now. This might make the difference between 
buying the newest Heidelberg software, and waiting a while, Printopen 
4 does not support the i1 in scanning mode.

Wonder why they didn't send me an email about this?

Found one oddity... It won't import a chart built with ColorshopX. 
This I find odd since they make both products, and it is much easier 
to manually enter values for a chart into ColorshopX.

Other than that and maybe one more option for importing a different 
type of RGB chart, and exporting the data into that type of RGB 
chart, this is great. Might just save me about $2000 for the upgrade 
to the newest form of Printopen from Heidelberg.

Something to note for the full color users that might be reading 
this... You can export the data (Lab, XYZ, etc.) with different 
viewing angles, and different color temperatures. This allows even 
greater versatility from older software that may not have those 
options. Now if it only recognized and compensated for OBA, that 
would be something really great.

Anyway, thanks again for pointing this out, this is a great tool!

Ernst Dinkla wrote:

>The Colorsync list mentioned a new utility 'ColorPort' on the download 
>pages of X-Rite that allows the creation of targets and measuring them 
>with several meters and not just X-rite models. Direct data transport to 
>Monaco Profiler is possible but it has more features. Not having an Eye 
>One I can't test the measuring function but it must be possible to 
>measure the QTR targets with it as well. Up to 8 channel targets 
>possible. Default targets included, new can be created, target data can 
>be imported for the creation. Much more features though.
>
>Checked it yesterday evening to see whether I could use the target 
>creation for the SpectroCam and the HPGL plotter that drives the meter 
>and I think that could work. Measuring has to be done with SpectroCam 
>software though.
>
>http://www.xrite.com/support_downloads.aspx?Line=32
>
>
>Ernst
>
>  
>
I have uploaded some  Windows ColorPort settings for the QTR 21 step 
grayscale target + related ColorPort targets + a new version of the QTR 
21 step grayscale target that shows whether the total inklimits are 
good: before linearising > after linearising > after profiling ( 3 
successive prints of course). 3, 2, 1 pixel lines (within 360 PPI) will 
show detail loss by bleeding. Can not yet conclude whether the lines are 
too fine or not as the quality of the print is related to the printer 
droplet size and resolution and I have to work with an Epson 9000. Will 
appreciate any comments and two samples of the measurement files (RGB 
and CMYK) made with the Eye-One and Colorport. The format of that file 
should be Monaco Profiler but I can't make them with ColorPort as I do 
not have an Eye One. Can't make the Mac version of the items above 
either as I have a PC.

The above should probably work with other X-Rite and Gretag Macbeth 
meters as well with some adaptions.

http://members.chello.nl/e.dinkla/ColorPort%2021%20step%20gray%20patches.zip

Ernst

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla 
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:

> and CMYK) made with the Eye-One and Colorport. The format of that 
file 
> should be Monaco Profiler but I can't make them with ColorPort as I 
do 
> not have an Eye One. Can't make the Mac version of the items above 
> either as I have a PC.
> 
> The above should probably work with other X-Rite and Gretag Macbeth 
> meters as well with some adaptions.
> 
> http://members.chello.nl/e.dinkla/ColorPort%2021%20step%20gray%
20patches.zip
> 
> Ernst


What color space is the grayscale chart built in? Is it a CMYK space? 
If it is, I can format it into something that color port can import 
as a new custom chart, then people can just build their own target to 
use any tool that works to measure it.(decided to just go ahead and 
do it, it works) Just cut the text (between the lines) into a text 
editor or database editor and save as a .csv (comma seperated value)

------------------------------------------------------------
0,0,0,0
0,0,0,5
0,0,0,10
0,0,0,15
0,0,0,20
0,0,0,25
0,0,0,30
0,0,0,35
0,0,0,40
0,0,0,45
0,0,0,50
0,0,0,55
0,0,0,60
0,0,0,65
0,0,0,70
0,0,0,75
0,0,0,80
0,0,0,85
0,0,0,90
0,0,0,95
0,0,0,100
----------------------------------------------------------------

The same type applies to the RGB formated targets (but only 3 fields 
and values from 0-255), if anyone wants to follow the above example. 
I'll post a different type later, not sure if there is any 
difference, but can't hurt.

Aside from not opening charts built in ColorshopX, I have found one 
other flaw. It won't make a target from the Prinopen RGB files. 
Colorport uses RGB levels from 0-255, Printopen uses levels from 0-
100. So for RGB profiles in Printopen, I still have some messing 
around to get the data out of Colorport, and into Printopen. CMYK 
charts import perfectly, and I then save the measurement as a CGATS 
formated txt file. Printopen opens that CGATS file without issue. 
This has made using Prinopen with my i1 effortless! Printopen 4 does 
not support scanning mode with the i1, and Printopen 5 is about 
$2000.00 away for the moment. Again, thanks for the link!!!!

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" 

I built a couple of templates based on the 21 step data that Ernst 
has provided for Colorport, and some guidelines from making the i1 
sized charts (based on my use for color profiles). I also included 
the CGATS measurement data for a couple of color targets I measured 
(sorry didn't have any grayscale measurement files on hand). It would 
be nice if QTR-ICC would import and parse the data it needs out of 
the CGATS file, that would put it one step closer to standardized. 
The CGATS file would have the same number of data points as the chart 
size (21), so don't worry about having to parse through huge files, 
these are just the examples that I had at hand. The zip file is here:

http://www.dfaprinting.com/colorportEXAMPLE.zip

It would be great if someone can upload the 2 templates and the i1 
guidelines to the files section to save my file transfer limits.

You will notice that the CGATS file has the following:

Illuminant
Angle of view

Reference patch values
Lab measured values
Spectral measured values



Now people with a Pulse or other supported spectro can use these 
files to generate profiles for QTR-ICC. If you haven't downloaded 
Colorport yet, I suggest you do so soon. I have a feeling that it 
will turn into a pay item, or get rolled into ColorshopX, or just go 
away when they get any bugs worked out.

dfaprinting wrote:

>
>
>
>What color space is the grayscale chart built in? Is it a CMYK space? 
>If it is, I can format it into something that color port can import 
>as a new custom chart, then people can just build their own target to 
>use any tool that works to measure it.(decided to just go ahead and 
>do it, it works)
>

They have been built as custom charts in ColorPort. The grayscale one in 
(CMY)K the RGB one in RGB. As the info says the files have to be put in 
the respective folders of documents and settings and then the two can be 
seen and chosen in the ColorPort menus of CMYK or RGB targets and the 
corresponding measure patches show in the measurement part of ColorPort. 
The TAB and XML files are there for filing. For actual printing and 
measuring you can use the customised QTR 21 step target. Of course you 
can make them yourself with a CSV file but at least for Windows it has 
been done already.

Ernst

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla 
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:

I also meant to say that a 1 pixel line should be visible on most 
coated media with a proper ink limit. On some media it might be 
blurred a little bit, but should still be there. On uncoated media, I 
expect it would not be visible. When you think about it, most coated 
media should hold more than the amount of any single color. However, 
sometimes when you get certain colors next to other certain colors, 
things will completely blur when you are using large blocks of ink, 
like in a profile target. I see this normally with a 2 color patch 
next to a yellow patch. So for a full black they should be fine.

dfaprinting wrote:

>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dfaprinting" 
>
>I built a couple of templates based on the 21 step data that Ernst 
>has provided for Colorport, and some guidelines from making the i1 
>sized charts (based on my use for color profiles). I also included 
>the CGATS measurement data for a couple of color targets I measured 
>(sorry didn't have any grayscale measurement files on hand). It would 
>be nice if QTR-ICC would import and parse the data it needs out of 
>the CGATS file, that would put it one step closer to standardized. 
>The CGATS file would have the same number of data points as the chart 
>size (21), so don't worry about having to parse through huge files, 
>these are just the examples that I had at hand. The zip file is here:
>
>http://www.dfaprinting.com/colorportEXAMPLE.zip
>
>It would be great if someone can upload the 2 templates and the i1 
>guidelines to the files section to save my file transfer limits.
>
>  
>
I can add your parts to the files I already made and wait till 
there's consensus that it is worthy for an upload to the B&W 
files section. To avoid more confusion it is better to keep 
CGATS measurement data out till the first greyscale 
measurements are made. I did send Roy the files before I wrote 
the message with the idea that an interface for the CMYK or 
RGB target measure data (Monaco Profiler format I assumed as 
that's what I can make with the SpectroCam and Avantes 
software as well) could be made. Roy is away right now so we 
have to wait.

Ernst

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla 
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
> I can add your parts to the files I already made and wait till 
> there's consensus that it is worthy for an upload to the B&W 
> files section. To avoid more confusion it is better to keep 
> CGATS measurement data out till the first greyscale 
> measurements are made. I did send Roy the files before I wrote 
> the message with the idea that an interface for the CMYK or 
> RGB target measure data (Monaco Profiler format I assumed as 
> that's what I can make with the SpectroCam and Avantes 
> software as well) could be made. Roy is away right now so we 
> have to wait.
> 
> Ernst

The CGATS is of course just for the after measurement files that are 
used to import the data. The only reason that I thought it would be 
good is that it really is a standard format for the somewhat modern 
applications. That said, I've never looked at the Monaco file to see 
if it is easy to read. And I think the "template" data I made can be 
read by MeasureTool, atleast I'm pretty sure that it can read an IT8 
style of chart information file. I think MeasureTool can also save 
measurements as CGATS (at least v5 should).

We can always just drop down to the Lab output file with either tab 
or comma delimiters. And anyway it goes, it is still one more step 
forward! And isn't spectrocam supported by Colorport? If so, you 
should be able to save the CGATS format from there, unless you can 
make grayscale profiles in the Avantes software (not familiar with it 
at all).

A side note, don't be surprised if the next version of Monaco 
Profiler uses an outboard measuring tool (that looks a lot like 
Colorport). Seems to make a lot of sense to set the profile software 
to take a standard file as the input, and use a simple tool for the 
device connection and measurement. Then they can come out with new 
devices, and not worry about updating all the routines in the 
profiling application. Either that or they want to put a dent in the 
GMB Measuretool income. Why pay GMB $700 when you can get the same 
thing (for what most people use) for free from Xrite!

dfaprinting wrote:

>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla 
><E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
>  
>
>>I can add your parts to the files I already made and wait till 
>>there's consensus that it is worthy for an upload to the B&W 
>>files section. To avoid more confusion it is better to keep 
>>CGATS measurement data out till the first greyscale 
>>measurements are made. I did send Roy the files before I wrote 
>>the message with the idea that an interface for the CMYK or 
>>RGB target measure data (Monaco Profiler format I assumed as 
>>that's what I can make with the SpectroCam and Avantes 
>>software as well) could be made. Roy is away right now so we 
>>have to wait.
>>
>>Ernst
>>    
>>
>
>The CGATS is of course just for the after measurement files that are 
>used to import the data. The only reason that I thought it would be 
>good is that it really is a standard format for the somewhat modern 
>applications. That said, I've never looked at the Monaco file to see 
>if it is easy to read. And I think the "template" data I made can be 
>read by MeasureTool, atleast I'm pretty sure that it can read an IT8 
>style of chart information file. I think MeasureTool can also save 
>measurements as CGATS (at least v5 should).
>
>We can always just drop down to the Lab output file with either tab 
>or comma delimiters. And anyway it goes, it is still one more step 
>forward! And isn't spectrocam supported by Colorport? If so, you 
>should be able to save the CGATS format from there, unless you can 
>make grayscale profiles in the Avantes software (not familiar with it 
>at all).
>  
>
Sorry, but I have written several times that the SpectroCam isn't 
supported by ColorPort. What I have done by uploading the files is very 
much a pro-deo gesture to Eye-One users as I can't use it myself with 
the exception of the QTR target modification which is something separate 
from the ColorPort adaption. The Avantes software of the Spectrocam 
can't make CGATS files either (as far as I know) so for me it wouldn't 
be an advantage to use that format. The Monaco Profiler format is simple 
and easy to make with most  Spectrometers including the SpectroCam.

>A side note, don't be surprised if the next version of Monaco 
>Profiler uses an outboard measuring tool (that looks a lot like 
>Colorport). Seems to make a lot of sense to set the profile software 
>to take a standard file as the input, and use a simple tool for the 
>device connection and measurement. Then they can come out with new 
>devices, and not worry about updating all the routines in the 
>profiling application. Either that or they want to put a dent in the 
>GMB Measuretool income. Why pay GMB $700 when you can get the same 
>thing (for what most people use) for free from Xrite!
>  
>
As I understand it ColorPort already works together with Monaco Profiler 
when both applications are installed on one system. But not having an 
Eye-One and Monaco Profiler this is all quite hypothetical for me. The 
only thing I was interested in was getting a common output file for most 
Spectrometers and get an interface in QTR so one doesn't need to type 
the numbers. If it worked for the 21 step then the next higher numbers 
linearisation target could be added. The partition target (,6,7,8 
channels) may be another step in that process but for selecting the 
partition points one usually can estimate the best patches by eye and 
maybe 10 patch readings are needed at most. In a more automated curve 
creation application it could be handy to have all the patches measured. 
Especially if it takes care of neutrality c.q. an even distribution of 
the hue (sepia etc) along the ramp.

Ernst