Digital BW, The Print

Hi,

the mailing list entitled 'The Business of Art Photography' has now been set up and you are all invited to join.

The list is intended to discuss the topic described and subscribers are asked to keep posts to the topic of earning money from art photography.

Richard


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Portraiture and Location Photography
http://smallfield.vze.com
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com



   "No horse gets anywhere till he is harnessed.
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--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard Smallfield 
<r.smallfield@p...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> the mailing list entitled 'The Business of Art Photography' has now been set up and you are 
all invited to join.


Here's the link to sign-up:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/business-of-art-photography/

Hello again...I have been assembling some album books of Prints that I 
have been stockpiling for a while, which were made on my 1280 with UT2, 
on several different papers, Photo rag, German etching, Kirkland etc, 
.......and after getting the 2400, I just had to redo some of the 
better images, and There really is a significant difference i the 
quality, especially on images that were problematic on the other 
printer. One thing that baffles me is why epson has the default setting 
at "darker" as opposed to "dark" or "normal". I find that "normal" 
matches my monitor the best, and also matches the output of an RGB file 
in mono, sent thru with a profile.

Does anyone think that "dark" or "darker" works best for them?

I have been printing only with photo black, on kirkland paper for B/W 
prints. They look very much in the same ballpark as my friends "ilford 
glossy grade 4 prints"

Douglas--
I have found the the "darker" setting matches the screen very 
accurately with a Soft Proof view set to "Preseve Numbers" and a dot 
gain of 25-30%.  So this would be one reason to use it.

On sending an RGB file through with a profile, my experience with the 
2400 is that color management from PS does not work with the ABW 
driver.  Photoshop is, of course, adjusting the numbers it sends, but 
not in a way useful to the ABW mode.  Or so I think.  Epson tells me 
that supplied profiles *are* for use with ABW, but they don't say how 
(don't appear to really understand any of it) and I haven't figured 
out a useful flow using them.

I continue to be interested in others' experience with this printer.

Good wishes,
Walt  

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Douglas meeuwsen 
<lipshurt@m...> wrote:
> Hello again...I have been assembling some album books of Prints 
that I 
> have been stockpiling for a while, which were made on my 1280 with 
UT2, 
> on several different papers, Photo rag, German etching, Kirkland 
etc, 
> .......and after getting the 2400, I just had to redo some of the 
> better images, and There really is a significant difference i the 
> quality, especially on images that were problematic on the other 
> printer. One thing that baffles me is why epson has the default 
setting 
> at "darker" as opposed to "dark" or "normal". I find that "normal" 
> matches my monitor the best, and also matches the output of an RGB 
file 
> in mono, sent thru with a profile.
> 
> Does anyone think that "dark" or "darker" works best for them?
> 
> I have been printing only with photo black, on kirkland paper for 
B/W 
> prints. They look very much in the same ballpark as my 
friends "ilford 
> glossy grade 4 prints"

Interesting.......have you tried sending a color file thru the ABW? Do 
you think that it does a different conversion than greyscale? I have 
not done comparisons yet, but I like the way the ABW converts color to 
BW. I had lots of trouble getting conversions in photoshop that I 
liked. I may be may out in the ozone there, so I may do some 
comparisons right now......
If my mac screen matches well with my prints, both in color and BW, is 
there any reason to use softproofing? Last year when I was having big 
problems with my 1200, and (to a much lesser degree) my 1280, I tried 
to set up softproofing, but it did not really get me anywhere, I 
assumed because my system was not calibrated correctly. This system 
(powerbook 15 inch, PSCS, epson 2400, epson and kirkland papers) seems 
to be all dialed in right out of the box........DM


On Jul 21, 2005, at 2:02 PM, wwodets wrote:

> Douglas--
>  I have found the the "darker" setting matches the screen very
>  accurately with a Soft Proof view set to "Preseve Numbers" and a dot
>  gain of 25-30%.  So this would be one reason to use it.
>
>  On sending an RGB file through with a profile, my experience with the
>  2400 is that color management from PS does not work with the ABW
>  driver.  Photoshop is, of course, adjusting the numbers it sends, but
>  not in a way useful to the ABW mode.  Or so I think.  Epson tells me
>  that supplied profiles *are* for use with ABW, but they don't say how
>  (don't appear to really understand any of it) and I haven't figured
>  out a useful flow using them.
>
>  I continue to be interested in others' experience with this printer.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am just starting to experiment with the ABW mode and last night ran 
some tests with a greyscale image sent to ABW and used the normal 
setting but then ran a test for tone adjustment with 
the "normal", "dark", and "darker" setting. The "darker" setting 
matched my screen the best and the "normal" was way too light and the 
whites were chalky. I have a Monaco calibrated monitor. I was printing 
with PK and on EPSG paper.

It was scary how close it comes to my best darkroom work. The neutral 
tone looks just a tad bluish/greenish to my eye, but this is very 
subtle and probably heavily influence by my taste and of couse my 
selenium-toned-Ilford-Multigrade-trained eye. I am going to experiment 
next with moving the color point in the color circle and see what 
happens!

I've never sent a color file with profile because I don't have any!  
I have no idea about the ABW conversion, but I assume the conversion 
in PS would allow more versatility.  On the screen match, that's all 
you need.  My approach is a peculiar one and one that many would say 
shouldn't work.  My Soft Proof "profile" was made from 
experimentation and seems to match highlights, shadows and the 
intermediate grayscale surprisingly well for the two papers I am 
using (EEM and EVFA), particularly the VFA.  Ultimately though, I do 
a print or two (or occasionally three) on the VFA for very tiny 
tweaks to the curves to get it just right on the paper.  The screen 
never looks like a paper print.  As for "out of the box," my screen 
looked nothing like the print--the screen was contrastier and 
lighter.  I do profile the screen to 2.2/5000K, which does nothing 
more than make the screen display consistent and repeatable.  I would 
add, though this is not much discussed here, that we are talking 
about a level of precision that wasn't even dreamed of in wet 
printing--we had four grades of paper, some crude dodging and burning 
tools and, if you were being really fancy, heated Dektol applied 
locally with a cotton ball and some cardboard dodging and burning 
tools.  So, I am amazed at the prints from this printer, though I 
never made a print in any manner that I didn't think I could improve 
upon after "sleeping" on it.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Douglas meeuwsen 
<lipshurt@m...> wrote:
> Interesting.......have you tried sending a color file thru the ABW? 
Do 
> you think that it does a different conversion than greyscale? I 
have 
> not done comparisons yet, but I like the way the ABW converts color 
to 
> BW. I had lots of trouble getting conversions in photoshop that I 
> liked. I may be may out in the ozone there, so I may do some 
> comparisons right now......
> If my mac screen matches well with my prints, both in color and BW, 
is 
> there any reason to use softproofing? Last year when I was having 
big 
> problems with my 1200, and (to a much lesser degree) my 1280, I 
tried 
> to set up softproofing, but it did not really get me anywhere, I 
> assumed because my system was not calibrated correctly. This system 
> (powerbook 15 inch, PSCS, epson 2400, epson and kirkland papers) 
seems 
> to be all dialed in right out of the box........DM
> 
> 
> On Jul 21, 2005, at 2:02 PM, wwodets wrote:
> 
> > Douglas--
> >  I have found the the "darker" setting matches the screen very
> >  accurately with a Soft Proof view set to "Preseve Numbers" and a 
dot
> >  gain of 25-30%.  So this would be one reason to use it.
> >
> >  On sending an RGB file through with a profile, my experience 
with the
> >  2400 is that color management from PS does not work with the ABW
> >  driver.  Photoshop is, of course, adjusting the numbers it 
sends, but
> >  not in a way useful to the ABW mode.  Or so I think.  Epson 
tells me
> >  that supplied profiles *are* for use with ABW, but they don't 
say how
> >  (don't appear to really understand any of it) and I haven't 
figured
> >  out a useful flow using them.
> >
> >  I continue to be interested in others' experience with this 
printer.

> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]