Digital BW, The Print

In a message dated 8/20/2005 11:31:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com writes:

I  suspect in another year,
we'll see another 4000 series printer, maybe one  that dosen't require
swapping out inks when we switch from luster to matte  papers.  Geesh,
I can't believe Epson did that, a step backwards  IMO.
 
Historically, Epson has used their freshly tooled platforms twice. The 5000  
dye became the 5500 pigment printer, the 1270 became the 2000P, then the 
unsold  200Ps became the silver 1280 when those wouldn't sell at the price.
 
the 4000 platform became the 4800. They only had 8 cynlinders to work with  
so the LLK took over the MK. That was the compromise. It's much cheaper to buy 
a  second printer if you want to print matte and glossy black. What else would 
you  expect them to do?
 
Think of the guys with 9600's that did that. An ink change with feeder  tubes 
is just not economical. Epson's choice to go with the glossy preference  for 
the 4800 is pure economics. PK outsells MK 10:1. So that's where they put  
their money. They probably feel that most people will stick to a 4000 for MK and  
a 4800 for PK with the K3. Besides, you don't get the full dynamicc range, 
Dmax,  sharpness, and color saturation of the gloss family of papers with ANY 
matte  papers.
 
It's a different aesthetic, I know and it has it's loyal following, but  like 
any corporation designed to make a profit, the bean counters decide where  
the new tooling money goes and when. The 4800 wasn't it.
 
The more radical improvements will come from the 7800/9800 because those  
printer have had to operate as relatively slow, single pass printers (the 4000  
series has tighter head alignement schemes). Now they will benefit from the 
same  head technology as the 4000/4800, which is good news because big roll stock 
 printers need to get a lot more ink, faster, than these little desktop units 
or  the 4000/4800 machines. They'll take your ink money either way.
 
Claude







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Claude,

Thanks for the interesting insight.  Makes sense.  Perhaps, if the
past is a reliable indicator of the future, we'll see a new series
next year (6000 series perhaps) with nine cylinders :-)

Cheers,

Tony


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, claudej1@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 8/20/2005 11:31:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com writes:
> 
> I  suspect in another year,
> we'll see another 4000 series printer, maybe one  that dosen't require
> swapping out inks when we switch from luster to matte  papers.  Geesh,
> I can't believe Epson did that, a step backwards  IMO.
>  
> Historically, Epson has used their freshly tooled platforms twice.
The 5000  
> dye became the 5500 pigment printer, the 1270 became the 2000P, then
the 
> unsold  200Ps became the silver 1280 when those wouldn't sell at the
price.
>  
> the 4000 platform became the 4800. They only had 8 cynlinders to
work with  
> so the LLK took over the MK. That was the compromise. It's much
cheaper to buy 
> a  second printer if you want to print matte and glossy black. What
else would 
> you  expect them to do?
>  
> Think of the guys with 9600's that did that. An ink change with
feeder  tubes 
> is just not economical. Epson's choice to go with the glossy
preference  for 
> the 4800 is pure economics. PK outsells MK 10:1. So that's where
they put  
> their money. They probably feel that most people will stick to a
4000 for MK and  
> a 4800 for PK with the K3. Besides, you don't get the full dynamicc
range, 
> Dmax,  sharpness, and color saturation of the gloss family of papers
with ANY 
> matte  papers.
>  
> It's a different aesthetic, I know and it has it's loyal following,
but  like 
> any corporation designed to make a profit, the bean counters decide
where  
> the new tooling money goes and when. The 4800 wasn't it.
>  
> The more radical improvements will come from the 7800/9800 because
those  
> printer have had to operate as relatively slow, single pass printers
(the 4000  
> series has tighter head alignement schemes). Now they will benefit
from the 
> same  head technology as the 4000/4800, which is good news because
big roll stock 
>  printers need to get a lot more ink, faster, than these little
desktop units 

> or  the 4000/4800 machines. They'll take your ink money either way.
>  
> Claude
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 02:41 -0400 21.8.2005, claudej1@... wrote:
*******************************************

>Besides, you don't get the full dynamicc range,
>Dmax,  sharpness, and color saturation of the gloss family of papers with ANY
>matte  papers.

You are right, but only and only if you compare those two prints out 
side by side or if you measure Dmax.

For normal humans the matt surface gives much better natural feeling, 
the 3D illusion is not destroyed by glossy reflections.

One joky sample - try print something as Boston's muzeum (glossy 
metal tower) with the sky - you may print it on matt paper but on 
glossy you never receive the contrast between "matte" sky and glossy 
building. ;-)

Martin
--

And hopefully white ink in the 9th slot...although I think the colour guys
will be lobbying for an ink which expands the gamut...

> From: Tony Bonanno <tbonanno-ranger2004@...>

> 
> Claude,
> 
> Thanks for the interesting insight.  Makes sense.  Perhaps, if the
> past is a reliable indicator of the future, we'll see a new series
> next year (6000 series perhaps) with nine cylinders :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tony