Digital BW, The Print

Well, I went and purchased an Epson 4800 without doing the research,
and  now I see that it is going to be a very expensive and
time-consuming process to change from Photo Black to Matte Black inks.
 Bummer!
Anyway...it looks like I'm going to have to choose one kind of ink,
and stick with it.  My objective is to make the best quality B&W prints.  
Any recommendations for the best combination of ink and paper to make
the finest quality prints from this printer?
Thanks so much,
Bob

Start with photo black/paper.  That's where the K3 inks have improved
things.  At least in the UK it ships with both photo and matte inks.  Start
there and see what you think.  If you hate it well then you only have one
ink change to worry about and even then you are wasting ink you didn't want
anyway.... 

> From: Bob Thornburg <bobtburg@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 17:53:26 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Epson 4800 - Matte or Glossy?
> 
> Well, I went and purchased an Epson 4800 without doing the research,
> and  now I see that it is going to be a very expensive and
> time-consuming process to change from Photo Black to Matte Black inks.
>  Bummer!
> Anyway...it looks like I'm going to have to choose one kind of ink,
> and stick with it.  My objective is to make the best quality B&W prints.
> Any recommendations for the best combination of ink and paper to make
> the finest quality prints from this printer?
> Thanks so much,
> Bob
>

We 4800 owners are all in the same boat. It comes with Pk so my idea is that i want to use 
that first. I was a happy QTR user with Moab paper and Mk on a 2200. The ABW 
improvement and the chance to print with Pk on Epson Premium Enhanced Matte is an 
attractive option to me now. My first few proofs have been quite encouraging. I may do a 
portfolio this way, and when I run out of Pk (or whenever), I'll either get some more or go 
back to working with Mk, with or without QTR. I don't like the high cost of flushing these 
inks, but this is a very nice machine. Two things come to mind. First, just like in the 
darkroom, save paper and ink (chemicals) by working with test strips or (my preference) 
small proofs. Cut the paper into 6 smaller pieces about 8.5 x 7.25. Keep a high res, 
cleaned and cropped archieved master file. Make a duplicate and size it to fit on the small 
paper at a low res (240). Do all your photoshop work in layers on that file. Your calibrated 
monitor will take you most of the way, but it is nice to fine tune off these small prints. 
Keep this workfile layered (don't flatten) and when it's done save it that way. Go back to 
the high res master file and size it the way you want it. Bring up the small workfile and 
drag the layers onto the master file. Just drag and drop. Instant adjusted file for printing.

I think we forget a little too quickly what was available before.  The 4000
was the first machine that I am aware of that had both blacks loaded.  But
it sucked on photo paper.  (If you like it for matte then buy one on eBay.)
None of the next generation large format printers - 4800, 7800, 9800 - have
both Ks loaded at the same time.  This has been normal practice for some
time - not ideal, agreed, but the norm.  The 4000/4800 gave consumer model
users access to a pro machine for an intermediate cost for the first time.
One can't simply demand the cost of swapping Ks on a 21/2200 on a pro
machine.  I am sure that Epson is listening to all the whining about the
cost of having to swap K on the pro/large format machines and listening.  If
they can produce the chassis and head in a cost efficient manner in order to
meet our price point expectations then I am sure we will see it next go
around - 1 or 2 years away.  In the interim be very thankful you have the
technology we have today at today's price points.  How much was an Iris
printer, say, 6 or 7 years ago?

> From: rgoldman2 <rgoldman@...>


> I don't like the high cost of
> flushing these 
> inks, but this is a very nice machine.

Good point!  But...I gather that in addition to wasting the black ink
that I don't want, it also wastes all of the other colors as well just
to change the blacks.  
And, I don't see Epson Photo black/paper listed anywhere.  Is that the
 name of a paper by someone else?
Thanks

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> Start with photo black/paper.  That's where the K3 inks have improved
> things.  At least in the UK it ships with both photo and matte inks.
 Start
> there and see what you think.  If you hate it well then you only
have one
> ink change to worry about and even then you are wasting ink you
didn't want
> anyway.... 
> 
> 
> > From: Bob Thornburg <bobtburg@a...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 17:53:26 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Epson 4800 - Matte or Glossy?
> > 
> > Well, I went and purchased an Epson 4800 without doing the research,
> > and  now I see that it is going to be a very expensive and
> > time-consuming process to change from Photo Black to Matte Black inks.
> >  Bummer!
> > Anyway...it looks like I'm going to have to choose one kind of ink,
> > and stick with it.  My objective is to make the best quality B&W
prints.

> > Any recommendations for the best combination of ink and paper to make
> > the finest quality prints from this printer?
> > Thanks so much,
> > Bob
> >

Not a significant amount.  A clean or two max.  Only the K line is drained.
You'll make that up in ink cost efficiency vs a 2200/2400 quite quickly.  I
meant Epson PK ink and photo paper (eg Epson Premium Semi-gloss).  The photo
output might surprise you....

> From: Bob Thornburg <bobtburg@...>


> Good point!  But...I gather that in addition to wasting the black ink
> that I don't want, it also wastes all of the other colors as well just
> to change the blacks.
> And, I don't see Epson Photo black/paper listed anywhere.  Is that the
>  name of a paper by someone else?

Thanks,
So...what is QTR, and ABW?
And, do I hear that we can get good results by printing on Epson
Premium Enhanced Matte with PK?  





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "rgoldman2"
<rgoldman@n...> wrote:
> We 4800 owners are all in the same boat. It comes with Pk so my idea
is that i want to use 
> that first. I was a happy QTR user with Moab paper and Mk on a 2200.
The ABW 
> improvement and the chance to print with Pk on Epson Premium
Enhanced Matte is an 
> attractive option to me now. My first few proofs have been quite
encouraging. I may do a 
> portfolio this way, and when I run out of Pk (or whenever), I'll
either get some more or go 
> back to working with Mk, with or without QTR. I don't like the high
cost of flushing these 
> inks, but this is a very nice machine. Two things come to mind.
First, just like in the 
> darkroom, save paper and ink (chemicals) by working with test strips
or (my preference) 
> small proofs. Cut the paper into 6 smaller pieces about 8.5 x 7.25.
Keep a high res, 
> cleaned and cropped archieved master file. Make a duplicate and size
it to fit on the small 
> paper at a low res (240). Do all your photoshop work in layers on
that file. Your calibrated 
> monitor will take you most of the way, but it is nice to fine tune
off these small prints. 
> Keep this workfile layered (don't flatten) and when it's done save
it that way. Go back to 
> the high res master file and size it the way you want it. Bring up
the small workfile and 
> drag the layers onto the master file. Just drag and drop. Instant
adjusted file for printing.

Now, that is encouraging news.  Actually, I just tried a print on
Premium Luster with PK, and I like it a lot!
Is Premium Semi-gloss your paper of choice with the PK?
Bob


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> Not a significant amount.  A clean or two max.  Only the K line is
drained.
> You'll make that up in ink cost efficiency vs a 2200/2400 quite
quickly.  I
> meant Epson PK ink and photo paper (eg Epson Premium Semi-gloss). 
The photo

> output might surprise you....
> 
> 
> > From: Bob Thornburg <bobtburg@a...>
> 
> 
> > Good point!  But...I gather that in addition to wasting the black ink
> > that I don't want, it also wastes all of the other colors as well just
> > to change the blacks.
> > And, I don't see Epson Photo black/paper listed anywhere.  Is that the
> >  name of a paper by someone else?

> From: Bob Thornburg <bobtburg@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 03:59:56 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 4800 - Matte or Glossy?
> 
> Thanks,
> So...what is QTR, and ABW?

Quadtone RIP

http://harrington.com/QuadToneRIP.html

Advanced B&W

> And, do I hear that we can get good results by printing on Epson
> Premium Enhanced Matte with PK?
> 


No you will not

> From: Bob Thornburg <bobtburg@...>
>
> Now, that is encouraging news.  Actually, I just tried a print on
> Premium Luster with PK, and I like it a lot!
> Is Premium Semi-gloss your paper of choice with the PK?


Yes I like EPSG a lot