Digital BW, The Print

Paul-

I shoot a lot of 4x5 Polaroid Type 55 and color negative film; using an 
Imacon to scan. I had to work my way into the Imacon, ultimately realizing that the 
difference in quality was too apparent to ignore. It wasn't just the pixel 
count, which you nicely summarize in your post, but the dynamic range and the 
quality of the software (which is often overlooked or marginalized, but very 
important).

Our students use Microtek flatbeds for their sheet film and they do an 
excellent job for the money (I like the Microtek design and the software, properly 
used, is okay). They easily learn to think about the scan, to previsualize 
their exposure and development accordingly.

The real issue for me had little to do with an struggle between pixels and 
film, wet or digital darkroom. I'd been waiting my entire adult life to print 
images with ink on paper and have access to many digital cameras. The issue is 
the camera and how it fits what I do, and how it affects the quality of my 
interactions with people (even when I'm not photographing them). For my work, 
there isn't a digital equivalent--yet--to a 4x5 field camera and film. I'm 
assuming that will change, perhaps sooner than I think. Someone will produce a cost 
effective (I'll measure that in relationship to the Imacon) digital back for a 
4x5 field camera that is almost as easy to use as my Polaroid and Kodak 
readyload backs. I'll go digital capture when it doesn't intrude on the psychology 
of the moment.



Bill Kennedy
Associate Professor of Photocommunications
St. Edward's University
512/448-8680


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In the article on Polaroid's site by Mr. de Wolf, he refers to scanning with
a Polaroid 4x5 scanner. I am familiar with, but forget the name
(sprintscan??) of the model as it is a unit that is quite "old" (i.e. it
came out BEFORE last week . . . actually it is quite a few years old). If I
remember correctly the unit was not that expensive, a few thousand which
means used ones will be a few hundred. It was designed expressly for what Mr
de Wolf is doing . . . scanning 4x5 negatives. At that price point it is a
relative bargain to begin an experiment of this kind . . . the only other
alternative being a drum scanner (bring on the zeros . . . in the price tag
that is). As to the price of 55, yes anything from Polaroid is expensive,
but it is convenient . . . that always costs.

Paul Aparycki


>I used Type 55 for a while, and have seriously considered using it again.
>Some factors that have stopped me, so far, include that 55 has become
rather

>expensive on a per-shot basis (but cheaper than a darkroom or 22 mp large
>sensor), it is not that easy to get a perfectly even "pull" when developing
>the film, and the film does not lay very flat in those holders.

>Additionally, the flatbed scanners that we usually consider (i.e., the
>affordable ones like Epson's) are at best half as "efficient" (sharp) as
>good, dedicated film scanners, which are much less efficient than digital
>cameras in terms of image quality per pixel.

>For my work,
>there isn't a digital equivalent--yet--to a 4x5 field camera and film. I'm
>assuming that will change, perhaps sooner than I think. Someone will
produce a cost
>effective (I'll measure that in relationship to the Imacon) digital back
for a
>4x5 field camera that is almost as easy to use as my Polaroid and Kodak
>readyload backs. I'll go digital capture when it doesn't intrude on the
psychology
>of the moment.


>Bill Kennedy

Well said Bill

The day that someone comes out with a digital "insert" with the variable
format that I have, and is the same size as my zoom back, I will jump on it,
even if it is in the tens of thousands . . . but it also has to be truly a
portable and single shot device, not held together with life-support and
umbilical cables that drag all over the universe (and also with their
interconnects and adapters usually costing thousands of extra). Until that
time, at least in "large" medium format to large format, nothing can beat
film.

Paul Aparycki

Bill wrote:

>... I had to work my way into the Imacon, ultimately realizing
> that the difference in quality was too apparent to ignore...

I thought that would be the best solution also.  It looks like a new one is
$10,000, but used ones on eBay seem to go for $2600.  If the used ones are
in good shape, that makes it a bit more palatable. 

> Our students use Microtek flatbeds for their sheet film and they do an
> excellent job for the money ...

Do you think they are better than the top Epson scanners?  Which model do
you find the best for an affordable one?

> The real issue for me ... is the camera and how it fits what I do ...

Yes, of course that is a huge issue.  I keep looking (in vain) for the
lightweight camera that can to it all.

Carl wrote:

> ... I just hope type 55 doesn't disappear from the market too soon 
> (like the Kodak B&W films have).

I once read that the film actually is based on the old Pan x.  Do you know
who actually makes it these days?  Judging from the large inventories I see
at the stores that serve Brooks Institute, I assume it is still widely used
for test shots where the final is to be a chrome.  As such, it may be safe
as long as big chromes are still used.  However, I too wonder just how long
Type 55 is going to be on the market.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul-

I've worked with Epsons and was impressed with the scans. We've had two 
Microtek 1800f's in our student lab for just over two years; a pretty good 
indication of their build quality. I think the most recent Microtek is the i900, with 
better resolution than the 1800f. Very reasonable pricing. The glassless 
scanning, for film up to 4x5 inches, works really well. Less dust/scratches and no 
Newton rings to worry about.

Neither will produce the quality that an Imacon will, but scan quality isn't 
everything. It depends on the work you need to do and how critical you are 
about print quality. I started with the best flatbed I could afford at the time 
(the Linocolor Saphir Ultra), moved to a used 4x5 LeafScan and finally realized 
how much time and energy I was wasting. Swallowed my medicine and bought the 
Imacon. I'm producing scans now that I know I won't have to redo; just archive 
and repurpose as required.

Wow, I should get some kind of kickback from Imacon.

Incidentally, last year we added an Nikon 9000 film scanner to the student 
lab. Excellent scans, once you master a Raw scan workflow with the software.

I'd been told, years ago by a Kodak research engineer, that Type 55 was Pan 
X. I have no idea if that's still true and, if it is, where the film stock is 
coming from. I really hope Type 55 survives; losing it would be a blow. Carl's 
right, by the way: the stuff doesn't store well.



Bill Kennedy
Associate Professor of Photocommunications
St. Edward's University
512/448-8680


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Bill wrote:
> 
> >... I had to work my way into the Imacon, ultimately realizing
> > that the difference in quality was too apparent to ignore...
> 
> I thought that would be the best solution also.  It looks like a new
one is
> $10,000, but used ones on eBay seem to go for $2600.  If the used
ones are
> in good shape, that makes it a bit more palatable. 

But make sure those are models that take 4x5, some don't. Also, some
older models don't do 16 bit, but it could have been the software version.
If you like the t55 edge, better look into what the maximum capture
area actually is.
Tyler

Fortunately, I have a 2 year supply of Tech Pan in the freezer.  I'm still
guessing Canon will be the best solution by the time I run out.  But the
Type 55 is one of the several contenders I'm exploring as a solution to the
demise of my current favorite film.

As I just mentioned to someone off list, I recently scanned some of my old
Agfapan 25 mf negatives and was reminded how excellent that film was --
aside from the reciprocity failure ...  I suspect going back to a
traditional ISO 25 film in the form of Efke 25 would remind me in spades why
I switched away from Agfapan 25 long before that film was discontinued. 

Someone once defined "nostalgia" as "the past without the pain."  I try to
keep that in mind as I consider the alternatives to my dwindling TP stash. 


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tyler
> Boley
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 12:33 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Type 55 film (was LF Workshops?)
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Bill wrote:
> >
> > >... I had to work my way into the Imacon, ultimately realizing
> > > that the difference in quality was too apparent to ignore...
> >
> > I thought that would be the best solution also.  It looks like a new
> one is
> > $10,000, but used ones on eBay seem to go for $2600.  If the used
> ones are
> > in good shape, that makes it a bit more palatable.
> 
> But make sure those are models that take 4x5, some don't. Also, some
> older models don't do 16 bit, but it could have been the software version.
> If you like the t55 edge, better look into what the maximum capture
> area actually is.
> Tyler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
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> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
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> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Has anyone yet used the EFKE 25 speed film. I have
read some good things about it and just ordered a few
rolls to try.

Would welcome feedback on any experiences

Woody Spedden

--- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
Fortunately, I have a 2 year supply of Tech Pan in the
freezer.  I'm still
guessing Canon will be the best solution by the time I
run out.  But the
Type 55 is one of the several contenders I'm exploring
as a solution to the
demise of my current favorite film.

As I just mentioned to someone off list, I recently
scanned some of my old
Agfapan 25 mf negatives and was reminded how excellent
that film was --
aside from the reciprocity failure ...  I suspect
going back to a
traditional ISO 25 film in the form of Efke 25 would
remind me in spades why
I switched away from Agfapan 25 long before that film
was discontinued. 

Someone once defined "nostalgia" as "the past without
the pain."  I try to
keep that in mind as I consider the alternatives to my
dwindling TP stash. 


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Tyler
> Boley
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 12:33 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Type 55 film (was LF
Workshops?)
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
"Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Bill wrote:
> >
> > >... I had to work my way into the Imacon,
ultimately realizing
> > > that the difference in quality was too apparent
to ignore...
> >
> > I thought that would be the best solution also. 
It looks like a new
> one is
> > $10,000, but used ones on eBay seem to go for
$2600.  If the used
> ones are
> > in good shape, that makes it a bit more palatable.
> 
> But make sure those are models that take 4x5, some
don't. Also, some
> older models don't do 16 bit, but it could have been
the software version.
> If you like the t55 edge, better look into what the
maximum capture
> area actually is.
> Tyler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily
digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences
by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of
earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal
attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be
removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group
topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic
posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the
group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and
decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and
Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT
THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP
SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE
LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES),
RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO
THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
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If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily
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Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
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UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd
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LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN
IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY
OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
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PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
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---------------------------------

I've been experimenting with 100 speed films for a few
months. Delta 100 seems the "winner" for me so far, souped
up in HC-100. Suitable for handheld shooting, forgiving enough
of exposure variation, fine-enough grain, blah-blah. I'm still
trying out APX100. My first roll was over developed (probably
temp. variations in the summer heat), but I'm still working at
it. FP4+ in Acutol also looks good, but I haven't yet achieved
consistencey with processing yet.

But I too have been intruighed by the EFKE 25 film. What is
the best soup for this film? Scanning on a Coolscan V, what
kind of enlargements might such scans support? Would this
be a suitable "portrait" film with studio lighting?

Any and all enlightenment greatly appreciated.

Scott

Elwood Spedden wrote:

> Has anyone yet used the EFKE 25 speed film. I have
> read some good things about it and just ordered a few
> rolls to try.
>
> Would welcome feedback on any experiences
>
> Woody Spedden
>
> --- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Fortunately, I have a 2 year supply of Tech Pan in the
> freezer. I'm still
> guessing Canon will be the best solution by the time I
> run out. But the
> Type 55 is one of the several contenders I'm exploring
> as a solution to the
> demise of my current favorite film.
>
> As I just mentioned to someone off list, I recently
> scanned some of my old
> Agfapan 25 mf negatives and was reminded how excellent
> that film was --
> aside from the reciprocity failure ... I suspect
> going back to a
> traditional ISO 25 film in the form of Efke 25 would
> remind me in spades why
> I switched away from Agfapan 25 long before that film
> was discontinued.
>
> Someone once defined "nostalgia" as "the past without
> the pain." I try to
> keep that in mind as I consider the alternatives to my
> dwindling TP stash.
>
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> >
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Tyler
> > Boley
> > Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 12:33 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Type 55 film (was LF
> Workshops?)
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> "Paul Roark"
> > <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > > Bill wrote:
> > >
> > > >... I had to work my way into the Imacon,
> ultimately realizing
> > > > that the difference in quality was too apparent
> to ignore...
> > >
> > > I thought that would be the best solution also.
> It looks like a new
> > one is
> > > $10,000, but used ones on eBay seem to go for
> $2600. If the used
> > ones are
> > > in good shape, that makes it a bit more palatable.
> >
> > But make sure those are models that take 4x5, some
> don't. Also, some
> > older models don't do 16 bit, but it could have been
> the software version.
> > If you like the t55 edge, better look into what the
> maximum capture
> > area actually is.
> > Tyler
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
> and other resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> >
> >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily
> digest, or you wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences
> by visiting this same
> > page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of
> earlier messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal
> attacks or flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be
> removed from the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group
> topic of digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic
> posts may be removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the
> group rules and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and
> decisions of the group Owner
> > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and
> Guidelines" in the Files
> > section:
> >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT
> THE "OWNER" AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP
> SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES),
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
> and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily
> digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your
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> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently
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> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY
> UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd
> OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
> SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING
> BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN
> IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY
> OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
> INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
> GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
> TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on
> the web.
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
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> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
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By coincidence, Woody and Scott, I heard of Efke 25 in this article

<http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/enough-already.shtml>

which seems to me of more general interest. Here is a quote from it 
about Efke and how Pete Myers uses it.

>[snip]
>In all seriousness, here is what I use: I shoot monochrome, so the 
>film of choice for me is Efke 25 - a relatively new, "old-school" 
>film from Croatia. It is sold here stateside by John Anderson at J 
>and C Photo. This is a microparticle film, with a high silver 
>content, and extremely uniform grain. I rate the film at ISO 6 
>(six), and meter for the dark fields of the image subject with the 
>camera's internal light meter. I shoot my Leica lens opened up to f4 
>or f2.8, with a number 8 contrast filter (I like B+W MRC filters). I 
>shoot with a carbon fiber monopod and a Really Right Stuff 
>quick-release system.
>
>My friends, Jeff and Katherine Cox at Cox B&W Lab, dutifully run the 
>film though their dunk and dip Xtol system at 7 minutes and 21.25 
>degrees C. I ship the film to them by FedEx with "Do Not X-Ray: 
>Exposed Photographic Film" stickers on the shipping box. Their 
>personal lab care results in scratch-free negatives, which my 
>Hasselblad/Imacon 343 scans as if it were butter-rich and creamy!
>[snip]

I'm sorry none of the links in the quote survived extraction of it.
--
Sam


>I've been experimenting with 100 speed films for a few
>months. [snip]
>
>But I too have been intruighed by the EFKE 25 film. What is
>the best soup for this film? Scanning on a Coolscan V, what
>kind of enlargements might such scans support? Would this
>be a suitable "portrait" film with studio lighting?
>
>Any and all enlightenment greatly appreciated.
>
>Scott
>
>Elwood Spedden wrote:
>
>>  Has anyone yet used the EFKE 25 speed film. I have
>>  read some good things about it and just ordered a few
>>  rolls to try.
>>
>>  Would welcome feedback on any experiences
>>
>>  Woody Spedden
>  > [snip]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sam, 
That sounds very much like what I and my father-in-law did back in the
late 60's using Kodak's High Contrast Copy film and developing in a
modified Buetler very dilute developer to tame the contrast. We rated
the film at that index also (6) and exposed for shadow detail. Used
Leicas & tripods and ended up with excellent tonality and no grain
showing in 20x24s. Our standard printing size was 16x20. I still have
my M3. I saved for a long time to buy it 2nd hand back then. For a
number of years that was my standard practice along with Tri-x for
available light work.

Regards
Duane


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Sam McCandless
<samcc@v...> wrote:

> By coincidence, Woody and Scott, I heard of Efke 25 in this article
> 
> <http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/enough-already.shtml>
> 
> which seems to me of more general interest. Here is a quote from it 
> about Efke and how Pete Myers uses it.
> 
> >[snip]
> >In all seriousness, here is what I use: I shoot monochrome, so the 
> >film of choice for me is Efke 25 - a relatively new, "old-school" 
> >film from Croatia. It is sold here stateside by John Anderson at J 
> >and C Photo. This is a microparticle film, with a high silver 
> >content, and extremely uniform grain. I rate the film at ISO 6 
> >(six), and meter for the dark fields of the image subject with the 
> >camera's internal light meter. I shoot my Leica lens opened up to f4 
> >or f2.8, with a number 8 contrast filter (I like B+W MRC filters). I 
> >shoot with a carbon fiber monopod and a Really Right Stuff 
> >quick-release system.
> >
> >My friends, Jeff and Katherine Cox at Cox B&W Lab, dutifully run the 
> >film though their dunk and dip Xtol system at 7 minutes and 21.25 
> >degrees C. I ship the film to them by FedEx with "Do Not X-Ray: 
> >Exposed Photographic Film" stickers on the shipping box. Their 
> >personal lab care results in scratch-free negatives, which my 
> >Hasselblad/Imacon 343 scans as if it were butter-rich and creamy!
> >[snip]
> 
> I'm sorry none of the links in the quote survived extraction of it.
> --
> Sam
> 
>

Tech data on the film.
http://www.jandcphotography.com/efkedata.htm


I use it in my old folders to achieve an old photo look.
Here's a 6X12 shot from a 1917 Kodak with Efke in Rodinal 100/1
I'm going for an old travelogue look.(Check out the original size for 
detail)

http://tinyurl.com/cow8e

I printed it using a 2200 and QTR. The film is outstanding.

Jules