Digital BW, The Print

Hello All,

I got some Museo Max samples in today and have just completed a review
and posted it in the "Great Paper Chase" article, #5 at the link below.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Clayton,
Thanks for the review.
I just finished my first curve for MuseoMax.  I had an extremely 
hard time with it.  It has a distinct and abrupt change in the slope 
of density vs. ink load for all inks, not something I'm used to 
dealing with.  I can see why it blocks up with the epson driver 
settings.

After a ridiculous number of step wedges, I now have what I think is 
a near optimum result for the UT7+FS-Y inkset that I'm currently 
using in the R200.
Dmax is 1.674, and all steps are clean and distinct before 
linearization.  The black has a great fill, no paper showing at all, 
very rich, yet still quite sharp and detailed for a matte paper.  
I'm looking forward to printing a real image tomorrow to see how it 
looks. 

It is as sensitive to contamination as they say, I am using anti-
static gloves to handle it while cutting to fit the desktop 
printer.  One light touch, and it leaves a distinct fingerprint in 
the image.

Best regards,
John Moody

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" 
<cj@c...> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> 
> I got some Museo Max samples in today and have just completed a 
review
> and posted it in the "Great Paper Chase" article, #5 at the link 
below.

> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>

Clayton, et al,

My preliminary experience with MuseoMax has been somewhat different.  Using QTR and 
the Moab bright-white curves, the prints were exquisite.  While the d-max (by eye) looked 
similar to other premium papers, the uniformity of large areas of pure black was the best I 
have observed.

I was also puzzled by a comment about the delicacy of the surface.  My prints were less 
prone to scuffing than virtually any paper I've used.

For color, I did find the Crane profile to be a little on the green side.  Custom profiles 
would solve that issue.

I'm printing with UC inks on an Epson 4000.

Jim
www.photographybysteele.com



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John M." <moodymz3@y...> 
wrote:

>
> Clayton,
> Thanks for the review.
> I just finished my first curve for MuseoMax.  I had an extremely 
> hard time with it.  It has a distinct and abrupt change in the slope 
> of density vs. ink load for all inks, not something I'm used to 
> dealing with.  I can see why it blocks up with the epson driver 
> settings.
> 
> After a ridiculous number of step wedges, I now have what I think is 
> a near optimum result for the UT7+FS-Y inkset that I'm currently 
> using in the R200.
> Dmax is 1.674, and all steps are clean and distinct before 
> linearization.  The black has a great fill, no paper showing at all, 
> very rich, yet still quite sharp and detailed for a matte paper.  
> I'm looking forward to printing a real image tomorrow to see how it 
> looks. 
> 
> It is as sensitive to contamination as they say, I am using anti-
> static gloves to handle it while cutting to fit the desktop 
> printer.  One light touch, and it leaves a distinct fingerprint in 
> the image.
> 
> Best regards,
> John Moody
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" 
> <cj@c...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello All,
> > 
> > I got some Museo Max samples in today and have just completed a 
> review
> > and posted it in the "Great Paper Chase" article, #5 at the link 
> below.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Clayton
> > 
> > 
> > Info on black and white digital printing at    
> > http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> >
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jamesdsteele2001" 
<photographybysteele@p...> wrote:
>  While the d-max (by eye) looked 
> similar to other premium papers

With what little testing I've accomplished so far, looks like dmax is 
around 1.66 for my inks, but I can't tell you much more than that yet. 
Benchmark dmax of around 1.73 for many of the Hahnemuhle papers.

Greg,

I just ran a few sheets through QTR on the 9600 MK from the same exact
files that I used for Innova S.Cotton and H. Photorag. I don't see any
visual difference in dmax at all. Actually I don't see difference
between the Museo 2 and the M Max either, using the same settings on
the same file, and this seems strange. The last file I did had 1/3 of
the image a pure black, (Photoshop 0) and if anything the Innova
looked blacker, but essentially the same and I like the Innova
textures and whiteness a lot more and it is better priced. Photrag
beat them all. Of course I have not made custom curves for this Crane
media to control the midtone ramp, but in my experience with great
papers you can pretty much tell what they are about the first time
around without going through all that. It is not a significantly
brighter paper either. But its good to see that they are at least back
in the game....somewhere..  

John



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg"
<dfaprinting@y...> wrote:

>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jamesdsteele2001" 
> <photographybysteele@p...> wrote:
> >  While the d-max (by eye) looked 
> > similar to other premium papers
> 
> With what little testing I've accomplished so far, looks like dmax is 
> around 1.66 for my inks, but I can't tell you much more than that yet. 
> Benchmark dmax of around 1.73 for many of the Hahnemuhle papers.
>

Hello James,

>My preliminary experience with MuseoMax has been somewhat different. 
>Using QTR and the Moab bright-white curves, the prints were exquisite. 

In looking back over the various comments so far, it seems like there
is pretty good agreement among them.  As to general appearance, for
example, you say "exquisite", and in my review I say "an exceptionally
beautiful paper".

As for dmax, there seems to be agreement that it is good but not as
good as the best ones.  In my system, for example, most of the A/B
papers have dmax of 4.0, with Innova papers at 4.5, and PR at 5.0.  I
rated Max at 4.2.  Here are some densitometer measurements from Greg's
post: "...dmax is around 1.66 for my inks...dmax of around 1.73 for 
many of the Hahnemuhle papers", John Moody reports "Dmax is 1.674",
and you say "...the d-max (by eye) looked similar to other 
premium papers".  So there's a lot of consistancy on this part.

I reported "...very high contrast which makes the blacks look too
blocked up...Requires an adjustment curve to lower the contrast...and
open up the blacks", and John reported essentially the same with
different terms: "...a distinct and abrupt change in the slope of
density vs. ink load...I can see why it blocks up...".


>...less prone to scuffing than virtually any paper I've used.

I agree (and I omitted this from my review, so I have revised it this
morning to include that - and it also resists burnishing), but I don't
recall seeing a report that said otherwise (did I miss one?).  John's
remark was about handling, not scuffing: "It is as sensitive to
contamination as they say...One light touch, and it leaves a distinct
fingerprint in the image".

So over all I don't see a wide disparity among the reports.  I think
we're getting a real good picture (so to speak <g>) of what this paper
is all about.  I suspect that further reports will reinforce these. 
It's scuff and burnish resistance should make it good for photo books.
 I think this will become a popular paper.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Remember that the relative dmax of papers, as well as other printing
characteristics, often varies with both the printer and the ink used.  Dmax
readings or ratings, for example, might be most useful if they specified the
printer and ink used -- Epson MK v. MIS Eboni.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul Roark wrote:
> Remember that the relative dmax of papers, as well as other printing
> characteristics, often varies with both the printer and the ink used.  Dmax
> readings or ratings, for example, might be most useful if they specified the
> printer and ink used -- Epson MK v. MIS Eboni.
> 

Are the dmax figures being quoted always after deducting paper white?

Howard

I believe I stated I was using eboni, but it may have gotten lost in the
discussion.
I'm using eboni and UT7 with FS-Y for the light gray ink, in an R200.  The
UT inks are the new base inks.  The eboni Dmax occurs at ~50% ink load, then
turns around.  It gets darker after drying a couple hours, and
insignificantly more overnight.  I'm running the gray inks much lower, ~20%
of max.

With the modified inkset I'm using I have to create the curves totally from
scratch, so I take a fair amount of time characterizing the inks to
determine ink loads and partition densities, before beginning the curve
process.  It would have been much easier with a rip that lets you linearize
each ink prior to curve building, but those rips fully support only the Pro
printers, which I don't have.
A picture of the curves is posted, if anyone is interested.
http://home.comcast.net/~johnmoody4/junk/museomax_curves.jpg
The spectro data with a* and b* values prior to linearization is plotted
here, http://home.comcast.net/~johnmoody4/junk/museomax_data.jpg
I'm still learning, so comments are welcome.

Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Paul Roark
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 12:57 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Museo Max Review


Remember that the relative dmax of papers, as well as other printing
characteristics, often varies with both the printer and the ink used.  Dmax
readings or ratings, for example, might be most useful if they specified the
printer and ink used -- Epson MK v. MIS Eboni.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>
> 
> Remember that the relative dmax of papers, as well as other printing
> characteristics, often varies with both the printer and the ink 
used.  Dmax
> readings or ratings, for example, might be most useful if they 
specified the
> printer and ink used -- Epson MK v. MIS Eboni.
> 
>

Which is exactly why I'm testing all the papers that I had considered 
in the past, one more time. I felt I needed to bring everything back to 
one baseline, and I am finding that the Innova papers are doing better 
this time around, than last time. The change was ink and software (RIP).

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Howard Shaw 
<glassman@b...> wrote:
> 
> Are the dmax figures being quoted always after deducting paper white?
> 
> Howard
>


Mine are not.