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Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-02 by Donald Johnson

Note that in the following announcement Epson clearly indicates that in most
cases use of their premium ICC Printer Profiles for the R2400 will provide
more accurate color and black and white print quality......
Premium ICC Printer Profiles
Epson Stylus\ufffd Photo R2400
The following ICC profiles are provided by Epson America, Inc. free of
charge and are supported in the Printer Basics Manual only. They have been
produced by Epson America's color management team for our customers who are
using the Epson Stylus Photo R2400. In most cases, these premium ICC
profiles will provide more accurate color and black-and-white print quality
than with the standard profiles already shipping with every printer.

When I asked Epson how these profiles could be used to improve B&W print
quality this is the answer I received:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
Subject: Re: 20051130192212:PCInkjet


Thank you for contacting the Epson Connection.

Unfortunately, ICC profiles would not assist you with black and white
printing, as the ICC profiles are for color printing. Since you are not
printing in color the profiles would not assist you.

Sean L
Epson Connection

Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-02 by scott_now_coming

Interesting.

If you're printing a RGB file and using all of the inks (black and 
colors), I don't see why the profiles won't work.

It's possible ol' Sean is mistaken.

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Donald Johnson" 
<donald.johnson8@a...> wrote:
>
> Note that in the following announcement Epson clearly indicates 
that in most
> cases use of their premium ICC Printer Profiles for the R2400 will 
provide
> more accurate color and black and white print quality......
> Premium ICC Printer Profiles
> Epson Stylus® Photo R2400
> The following ICC profiles are provided by Epson America, Inc. free 
of
> charge and are supported in the Printer Basics Manual only. They 
have been
> produced by Epson America's color management team for our customers 
who are
> using the Epson Stylus Photo R2400. In most cases, these premium ICC
> profiles will provide more accurate color and black-and-white print 
quality
> than with the standard profiles already shipping with every printer.
> 
> When I asked Epson how these profiles could be used to improve B&W 
print
> quality this is the answer I received:
> 
> Subject: Re: 20051130192212:PCInkjet
> 
> 
> Thank you for contacting the Epson Connection.
> 
> Unfortunately, ICC profiles would not assist you with black and 
white
> printing, as the ICC profiles are for color printing. Since you are 
not
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> printing in color the profiles would not assist you.
> 
> Sean L
> Epson Connection
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-02 by Steve Kale

~I doubt he was wrong.  The colour profiles don't profile the printer in Adv
B&W mode even if it's using all the colour inks.  Completely different
engine.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: scott_now_coming <scott_now_coming@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:08:55 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> If you're printing a RGB file and using all of the inks (black and
> colors), I don't see why the profiles won't work.
> 
> It's possible ol' Sean is mistaken.
> 
> Scott
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Donald Johnson"
> <donald.johnson8@a...> wrote:
>> 
>> Note that in the following announcement Epson clearly indicates
> that in most
>> cases use of their premium ICC Printer Profiles for the R2400 will
> provide
>> more accurate color and black and white print quality......
>> Premium ICC Printer Profiles
>> Epson Stylus® Photo R2400
>> The following ICC profiles are provided by Epson America, Inc. free
> of
>> charge and are supported in the Printer Basics Manual only. They
> have been
>> produced by Epson America's color management team for our customers
> who are
>> using the Epson Stylus Photo R2400. In most cases, these premium ICC
>> profiles will provide more accurate color and black-and-white print
> quality
>> than with the standard profiles already shipping with every printer.
>> 
>> When I asked Epson how these profiles could be used to improve B&W
> print
>> quality this is the answer I received:
>> 
>> Subject: Re: 20051130192212:PCInkjet
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you for contacting the Epson Connection.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, ICC profiles would not assist you with black and
> white
>> printing, as the ICC profiles are for color printing. Since you are
> not
>> printing in color the profiles would not assist you.
>> 
>> Sean L
>> Epson Connection
>

Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-02 by Bjorn Helgaas

On Friday 02 December 2005 3:43 pm, Steve Kale wrote:
> ~I doubt he was wrong.  The colour profiles don't profile the printer in Adv
> B&W mode even if it's using all the colour inks.  Completely different
> engine.

So are there separate profiles you use in Adv B&W mode?  I would think
there would have to be *some* profile used, wouldn't there?

Just speculation on my part, since I have no Adv B&W-capable printer.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-02 by Steve Kale

Adv B&W is not a color managed work flow.  Ordinarily one would not use an
ICC profile with it.  That's it's problem.  BUT you can make an ICC profile
of a particular set of Abv B&W settings using QTR Create ICC.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Bjorn Helgaas <bjorn@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 16:00:58 -0700
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing
> 
> On Friday 02 December 2005 3:43 pm, Steve Kale wrote:
>> ~I doubt he was wrong.  The colour profiles don't profile the printer in Adv
>> B&W mode even if it's using all the colour inks.  Completely different
>> engine.
> 
> So are there separate profiles you use in Adv B&W mode?  I would think
> there would have to be *some* profile used, wouldn't there?
> 
> Just speculation on my part, since I have no Adv B&W-capable printer.
>

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-03 by scott_now_coming

I agree witht the fact that profiles don't work in ABW. I have to 
turn off profiles in QImage when I use ABW.

However, when printing an RGB file in "color" mode, a profile should 
work with a "grayscale" RGB file.

(When , for example, you convert a grayscale image to RGB)

Scott

-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> ~I doubt he was wrong.  The colour profiles don't profile the 
printer in Adv
> B&W mode even if it's using all the colour inks.  Completely 
different
> engine.
> 
> 
> > From: scott_now_coming <scott_now_coming@y...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:08:55 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W 
Printing
> > 
> > Interesting.
> > 
> > If you're printing a RGB file and using all of the inks (black and
> > colors), I don't see why the profiles won't work.
> > 
> > It's possible ol' Sean is mistaken.
> > 
> > Scott
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Donald 
Johnson"
> > <donald.johnson8@a...> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Note that in the following announcement Epson clearly indicates
> > that in most
> >> cases use of their premium ICC Printer Profiles for the R2400 
will
> > provide
> >> more accurate color and black and white print quality......
> >> Premium ICC Printer Profiles
> >> Epson Stylus® Photo R2400
> >> The following ICC profiles are provided by Epson America, Inc. 
free
> > of
> >> charge and are supported in the Printer Basics Manual only. They
> > have been
> >> produced by Epson America's color management team for our 
customers
> > who are
> >> using the Epson Stylus Photo R2400. In most cases, these premium 
ICC
> >> profiles will provide more accurate color and black-and-white 
print
> > quality
> >> than with the standard profiles already shipping with every 
printer.
> >> 
> >> When I asked Epson how these profiles could be used to improve 
B&W
> > print
> >> quality this is the answer I received:
> >> 
> >> Subject: Re: 20051130192212:PCInkjet
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Thank you for contacting the Epson Connection.
> >> 
> >> Unfortunately, ICC profiles would not assist you with black and
> > white
> >> printing, as the ICC profiles are for color printing. Since you 
are
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > not
> >> printing in color the profiles would not assist you.
> >> 
> >> Sean L
> >> Epson Connection
> >
>

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-03 by Roy Harrington

The main issue here is that you can't get a color target printed from ABW so you
can't create a color RGB profile from standard color profiling software. An ICC profile
that was truly grayscale but RGB format should (I think) work just fine.

Which leads to the question whether there are many who would use an rgb version
of QTR-Create-ICC ?

Roy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "scott_now_coming" 
<scott_now_coming@y...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I agree witht the fact that profiles don't work in ABW. I have to 
> turn off profiles in QImage when I use ABW.
> 
> However, when printing an RGB file in "color" mode, a profile should 
> work with a "grayscale" RGB file.
> 
> (When , for example, you convert a grayscale image to RGB)
> 
> Scott
> 
> -- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
> >
> > ~I doubt he was wrong.  The colour profiles don't profile the 
> printer in Adv
> > B&W mode even if it's using all the colour inks.  Completely 
> different
> > engine.
> > 
> > 
> > > From: scott_now_coming <scott_now_coming@y...>
> > > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:08:55 -0000
> > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W 
> Printing
> > > 
> > > Interesting.
> > > 
> > > If you're printing a RGB file and using all of the inks (black and
> > > colors), I don't see why the profiles won't work.
> > > 
> > > It's possible ol' Sean is mistaken.
> > > 
> > > Scott
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Donald 
> Johnson"
> > > <donald.johnson8@a...> wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> Note that in the following announcement Epson clearly indicates
> > > that in most
> > >> cases use of their premium ICC Printer Profiles for the R2400 
> will
> > > provide
> > >> more accurate color and black and white print quality......
> > >> Premium ICC Printer Profiles
> > >> Epson Stylus® Photo R2400
> > >> The following ICC profiles are provided by Epson America, Inc. 
> free
> > > of
> > >> charge and are supported in the Printer Basics Manual only. They
> > > have been
> > >> produced by Epson America's color management team for our 
> customers
> > > who are
> > >> using the Epson Stylus Photo R2400. In most cases, these premium 
> ICC
> > >> profiles will provide more accurate color and black-and-white 
> print
> > > quality
> > >> than with the standard profiles already shipping with every 
> printer.
> > >> 
> > >> When I asked Epson how these profiles could be used to improve 
> B&W
> > > print
> > >> quality this is the answer I received:
> > >> 
> > >> Subject: Re: 20051130192212:PCInkjet
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> Thank you for contacting the Epson Connection.
> > >> 
> > >> Unfortunately, ICC profiles would not assist you with black and
> > > white
> > >> printing, as the ICC profiles are for color printing. Since you 
> are
> > > not
> > >> printing in color the profiles would not assist you.
> > >> 
> > >> Sean L
> > >> Epson Connection
> > >
> >
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-03 by Tom Husband

Hi Roy,

I would certainly use an RGB version of QTR-Create-ICC.  I like the way Qimage interpolates and sharpens but it only does so in RGB.

Thanks,

Tom
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Roy Harrington 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 9:02 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing



  The main issue here is that you can't get a color target printed from ABW so you
  can't create a color RGB profile from standard color profiling software. An ICC profile
  that was truly grayscale but RGB format should (I think) work just fine.

  Which leads to the question whether there are many who would use an rgb version
  of QTR-Create-ICC ?

  Roy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-03 by scott_now_coming

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband" 
<thusband@s...> wrote:
>
> Hi Roy,
> 
> I would certainly use an RGB version of QTR-Create-ICC.  I like the 
way Qimage interpolates and sharpens but it only does so in RGB.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 

Hi Tom,

Are you sure about that?

I print GG2.2 and DOT Gain 20% grayscale files through QImage all the 
time. I've never sharpened or re-sized before printing through QI.

Scott

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-03 by Tom Husband

Hi Scott,

I'm pretty sure Qimage will change the grayscale to RGB before it resizes or sharpens.  What I'd like an RGB QTR-Create-ICC for is to "print to file" in Qimage so I can use it's resize and sharpening features and then print through QTR.  When I take a grayscale and run it through Qimage it's changed to rgb.  I just ran a grayscale through Qimage and applied some sharpening.  Sure enough it came out rgb.

Tom
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: scott_now_coming 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 9:30 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing


  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband" 
  <thusband@s...> wrote:
  >
  > Hi Roy,
  > 
  > I would certainly use an RGB version of QTR-Create-ICC.  I like the 
  way Qimage interpolates and sharpens but it only does so in RGB.
  > 
  > Thanks,
  > 
  > 

  Hi Tom,

  Are you sure about that?

  I print GG2.2 and DOT Gain 20% grayscale files through QImage all the 
  time. I've never sharpened or re-sized before printing through QI.

  Scott






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-03 by scott_now_coming

"When I take a grayscale and run it through Qimage it's changed to 
rgb. I
just ran a grayscale through Qimage and applied some sharpening. Sure 
enough it
came out rgb."

That's interesting. Where, in QI, are you seeing that the grayscale 
file is being converted to RGB?

Thanks,

Scott



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband" 
<thusband@s...> wrote:
>
> Hi Scott,
> 
> I'm pretty sure Qimage will change the grayscale to RGB before it 
resizes or sharpens.  What I'd like an RGB QTR-Create-ICC for is 
to "print to file" in Qimage so I can use it's resize and sharpening 
features and then print through QTR.  When I take a grayscale and run 
it through Qimage it's changed to rgb.  I just ran a grayscale 
through Qimage and applied some sharpening.  Sure enough it came out 
rgb.
> 
> Tom
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: scott_now_coming 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 9:30 AM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W 
Printing
> 
> 
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m, "Tom 
Husband" 
>   <thusband@s...> wrote:
>   >
>   > Hi Roy,
>   > 
>   > I would certainly use an RGB version of QTR-Create-ICC.  I like 
the 
>   way Qimage interpolates and sharpens but it only does so in RGB.
>   > 
>   > Thanks,
>   > 
>   > 
> 
>   Hi Tom,
> 
>   Are you sure about that?
> 
>   I print GG2.2 and DOT Gain 20% grayscale files through QImage all 
the 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>   time. I've never sharpened or re-sized before printing through QI.
> 
>   Scott
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-04 by Tom Husband

Hi Scott

If I take a grayscale image and print to file with QI along with a resize and sharpening the resulting image is srgb.  I can see it in QI when I put that image back in the queue or I can open the image in Photoshop and see it there too.  Perhaps QI will print a grayscale image when resize or sharpening isn't applied I'm not sure but if it's a "print to file" file it's rgb.  QI doesn't tell you it's converting but grayscale in rgb out.  I believe QI is why Roy came out with those rgb-matte and rgb-photo icc files a while back.

Tom
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: scott_now_coming 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 1:27 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing


  "When I take a grayscale and run it through Qimage it's changed to 
  rgb. I
  just ran a grayscale through Qimage and applied some sharpening. Sure 
  enough it
  came out rgb."

  That's interesting. Where, in QI, are you seeing that the grayscale 
  file is being converted to RGB?

  Thanks,

  Scott

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-04 by scott_now_coming

I never use print-to-file.

But, if you have a grayscale file, drag it into the QImage queue and 
it will show it as a grayscale file. If you drag a RGB file into the 
queue, it shows as a RGB file.

Maybe the way you have "print-to-file" set up, it converts files to 
RGB?

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband" 
<thusband@s...> wrote:
>
> Hi Scott
> 
> If I take a grayscale image and print to file with QI along with a 
resize and sharpening the resulting image is srgb.  I can see it in 
QI when I put that image back in the queue or I can open the image in 
Photoshop and see it there too.  Perhaps QI will print a grayscale 
image when resize or sharpening isn't applied I'm not sure but if 
it's a "print to file" file it's rgb.  QI doesn't tell you it's 
converting but grayscale in rgb out.  I believe QI is why Roy came 
out with those rgb-matte and rgb-photo icc files a while back.
> 
> Tom
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: scott_now_coming 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 1:27 PM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W 
Printing
> 
> 
>   "When I take a grayscale and run it through Qimage it's changed 
to 
>   rgb. I
>   just ran a grayscale through Qimage and applied some sharpening. 
Sure 
>   enough it
>   came out rgb."
> 
>   That's interesting. Where, in QI, are you seeing that the 
grayscale 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>   file is being converted to RGB?
> 
>   Thanks,
> 
>   Scott
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-04 by Tom Husband

Maybe, Scott, but I don't think so.  I think we've beaten this thing
to death.  Hopefully Roy will come out an RGB-QTR-Create_ICC and my
problems will be solved.

Tom

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
"scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@y...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I never use print-to-file.
> 
> But, if you have a grayscale file, drag it into the QImage queue and 
> it will show it as a grayscale file. If you drag a RGB file into the 
> queue, it shows as a RGB file.
> 
> Maybe the way you have "print-to-file" set up, it converts files to 
> RGB?
> 
> Scott
>

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-04 by scott_now_coming

Sure, no problem.

I wasn't trying to back you against a wall, just trying to figure out 
the "elusive color management thing".  :>)

Thanks for your comments.


Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband" 
<thusband@s...> wrote:
>
> Maybe, Scott, but I don't think so.  I think we've beaten this thing
> to death.  Hopefully Roy will come out an RGB-QTR-Create_ICC and my
> problems will be solved.
> 
> Tom
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> "scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@y...> wrote:
> >
> > I never use print-to-file.
> > 
> > But, if you have a grayscale file, drag it into the QImage queue 
and 
> > it will show it as a grayscale file. If you drag a RGB file into 
the 
> > queue, it shows as a RGB file.
> > 
> > Maybe the way you have "print-to-file" set up, it converts files 
to 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > RGB?
> > 
> > Scott
> >
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-04 by Steve Kale

I'm not sure I see the point.  The conversion on the fly can always be RGB
to greyscale, no?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Roy Harrington <roy@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 05:02:15 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing
> 
> 
> The main issue here is that you can't get a color target printed from ABW so
> you
> can't create a color RGB profile from standard color profiling software. An
> ICC profile
> that was truly grayscale but RGB format should (I think) work just fine.
> 
> Which leads to the question whether there are many who would use an rgb
> version
> of QTR-Create-ICC ?
> 
> Roy

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-04 by Tom Husband

So you're saying use the existing QTR-Create_ICC and then convert the image to rgb?

Tom
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve Kale 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 1:18 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing


  I'm not sure I see the point.  The conversion on the fly can always be RGB
  to greyscale, no?


  > From: Roy Harrington <roy@...>
  > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  > Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 05:02:15 -0000
  > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing
  > 
  > Which leads to the question whether there are many who would use an rgb
  > version
  > of QTR-Create-ICC ?
  > 
  > Roy




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-04 by Steve Kale

The file has to be converted to the output profile prior to printing.  I
don't use Qimage and noticed that subsequent posts are Qimage centric.  Can
Qimage, while requiring an RGB image, not convert to a greyscale ICC profile
at printing?  If not, surely Qimage could simply pass through the file pixel
values to the printer (ie a Same as Source workflow).  Then, I think, one
could converted the image to the QTR Create ICC output profile (greyscale),
ASSIGN the RGB profile required by Qimage and then print Same as Source.
Users of Qimage would have to judge if this is possible.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Tom Husband <thusband@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 03:59:09 -0800
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing
> 
> So you're saying use the existing QTR-Create_ICC and then convert the image to
> rgb?
> 
> Tom
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Steve Kale
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 1:18 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W
> Printing
> 
> 
>   I'm not sure I see the point.  The conversion on the fly can always be RGB
>   to greyscale, no?
> 
> 
>> From: Roy Harrington <roy@...>
>> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 05:02:15 -0000
>> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing
>> 
>> Which leads to the question whether there are many who would use an rgb
>> version
>> of QTR-Create-ICC ?
>> 
>> Roy

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-04 by Tom Husband

I know QI takes a grayscale and produces an rgb when interpolating and sharpening and that's what I use it for.  I don't print with QI I use its "print to file" feature so I can use its resize and sharpening capability. "Print to file" leaves an rgb file on my desktop which I then I print through QTR.  So if I have a grayscale and use "print to file" the new image is rgb.  No way around that.  I can convert the grayscale image to the QTR-Create_ICC file in QI when I use "print to file" but the results would be an rgb image on my desktop with an imbedded grayscale icc file.  That's where an RGB-QTR-Create_ICC version would be handy for me.

What I do now is take the rgb image back into Photoshop and covert back to grayscale before printing with QTR.

Tom
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve Kale 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 7:33 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing


  The file has to be converted to the output profile prior to printing.  I
  don't use Qimage and noticed that subsequent posts are Qimage centric.  Can
  Qimage, while requiring an RGB image, not convert to a greyscale ICC profile
  at printing?  If not, surely Qimage could simply pass through the file pixel
  values to the printer (ie a Same as Source workflow).  Then, I think, one
  could converted the image to the QTR Create ICC output profile (greyscale),
  ASSIGN the RGB profile required by Qimage and then print Same as Source.
  Users of Qimage would have to judge if this is possible.


  > From: Tom Husband <thusband@...>
  > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  > Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 03:59:09 -0800
  > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing
  > 
  > So you're saying use the existing QTR-Create_ICC and then convert the image to
  > rgb?
  > 
  > Tom
  >   ----- Original Message -----
  >   From: Steve Kale
  >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  >   Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 1:18 AM
  >   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W
  > Printing
  > 
  > 
  >   I'm not sure I see the point.  The conversion on the fly can always be RGB
  >   to greyscale, no?
  > 
  > 
  >> From: Roy Harrington <roy@...>
  >> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  >> Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 05:02:15 -0000
  >> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  >> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing
  >> 
  >> Which leads to the question whether there are many who would use an rgb
  >> version
  >> of QTR-Create-ICC ?
  >> 
  >> Roy




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-05 by ferdinand_paris

I don't quite understand this thread.  Perhaps I'm missing something.

First, Qimage will always output a monochrome RGB from a grayscale
input image, no matter whether you print to file or to a printer
driver, and no matter what sharpening etc is applied.  When Mike
Chaney modified Qimage so that we could use the QTR profiles, (and Roy
fixed the profiles to suit Qimage), some of us tried to convince Mike
to allow Qimage to output true single-channel grayscale images as
well.  Mike said that that would be way too much work for him, and
since Roy had made the RGB profiles, it wasn't really necessary for
us.  In that sense, he is right.  QTR prints the monchrome RGB images
just as it would a grayscale.  So, Qimage *always* outputs a three
channel file.

Second, I don't understand why, for QTR users, you need an RGB version
of QTR-Create_ICC?  Perhaps someone can explain it to me.  What I do
is convert to QTR-RGB-Matte or QTR-Gray-Matte in PSCS2 (depending on
whether it is a true grayscale image or a three channel monchrome
image), and then in Qimage turn "Printer ICC" off.  I get an untagged
monochrome RGB which effectively is in QTR-RGB-Matte, and this gives
me wysiwyg results via QTR.

I guess the alternative would be to convert to QTR-RGB-Matte in
Qimage, which should give me (approximately) the same output image,
but tagged.  I don't do it this way because I think that there are
some inaccuracies in the way that the LCMS colour management engine in
Qimage handles the QTR profiles, but in theory it works.

So why do I need QTR-Create_ICC, or is this just for 2400 / 4800 AWB
users, and Roy has already effectively done this for us by creating
the RGB profiles?

F_P

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband"
<thusband@s...> wrote:
>
> I know QI takes a grayscale and produces an rgb when interpolating
and sharpening and that's what I use it for.  I don't print with QI I
use its "print to file" feature so I can use its resize and sharpening
capability. "Print to file" leaves an rgb file on my desktop which I
then I print through QTR.  So if I have a grayscale and use "print to
file" the new image is rgb.  No way around that.  I can convert the
grayscale image to the QTR-Create_ICC file in QI when I use "print to
file" but the results would be an rgb image on my desktop with an
imbedded grayscale icc file.  That's where an RGB-QTR-Create_ICC
version would be handy for me.
> 
> What I do now is take the rgb image back into Photoshop and covert
back to grayscale before printing with QTR.
> 
> Tom

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-05 by Tom Husband

Hi Ferdinand,

For me a custom RGB-QTR-Create_ICC profile for my printer will do a better job than the generic QTR-RGB-Matte along with the QTR curves I made for my printer/paper combo.

Tom
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: ferdinand_paris 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:47 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing


  I don't quite understand this thread.  Perhaps I'm missing something.

  First, Qimage will always output a monochrome RGB from a grayscale
  input image, no matter whether you print to file or to a printer
  driver, and no matter what sharpening etc is applied.  When Mike
  Chaney modified Qimage so that we could use the QTR profiles, (and Roy
  fixed the profiles to suit Qimage), some of us tried to convince Mike
  to allow Qimage to output true single-channel grayscale images as
  well.  Mike said that that would be way too much work for him, and
  since Roy had made the RGB profiles, it wasn't really necessary for
  us.  In that sense, he is right.  QTR prints the monchrome RGB images
  just as it would a grayscale.  So, Qimage *always* outputs a three
  channel file.

  Second, I don't understand why, for QTR users, you need an RGB version
  of QTR-Create_ICC?  Perhaps someone can explain it to me.  What I do
  is convert to QTR-RGB-Matte or QTR-Gray-Matte in PSCS2 (depending on
  whether it is a true grayscale image or a three channel monchrome
  image), and then in Qimage turn "Printer ICC" off.  I get an untagged
  monochrome RGB which effectively is in QTR-RGB-Matte, and this gives
  me wysiwyg results via QTR.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-05 by Steve Kale

Why do you need RGB?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Tom Husband <thusband@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 05:59:06 -0800
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing
> 
> Hi Ferdinand,
> 
> For me a custom RGB-QTR-Create_ICC profile for my printer will do a better job
> than the generic QTR-RGB-Matte along with the QTR curves I made for my
> printer/paper combo.
> 
> Tom

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-05 by Tom Husband

Isn't QTR-Create_ICC for grayscale only?

Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:     Why do you need RGB?
 
 
 > From: Tom Husband <thusband@...>
 > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
 > Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 05:59:06 -0800
 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
 > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing
 > 
 > Hi Ferdinand,
 > 
 > For me a custom RGB-QTR-Create_ICC profile for my printer will do a better job
 > than the generic QTR-RGB-Matte along with the QTR curves I made for my
 > printer/paper combo.
 > 
 > Tom



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-05 by Steve Kale

Yes and an RGB version would be for printing greyscale images only also.
There are already plenty of apps out there for RGB profiles - including the
one that comes with the instrument one purchases to use QTR Create ICC.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Tom Husband <thusband@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 07:43:14 -0800 (PST)
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing
> 
> Isn't QTR-Create_ICC for grayscale only?
> 
> Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:     Why do you need RGB?
>  
>  
>> From: Tom Husband <thusband@...>
>> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 05:59:06 -0800
>> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing
>> 
>> Hi Ferdinand,
>> 
>> For me a custom RGB-QTR-Create_ICC profile for my printer will do a better
>> job
>> than the generic QTR-RGB-Matte along with the QTR curves I made for my
>> printer/paper combo.
>> 
>> Tom

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-05 by Tom Husband

I thought an RGB-QTR-Create-ICC app would be for a monotone rgb file where as the existing QTR-Create-ICC is for grayscale only.  You're saying that an RGB version would be used for grayscale?  Man, I'm getting real confused now. 

I use an X-rite 810 to make curves and icc profiles so I don't have an app, other than QTR-Create-ICC,  that will create icc files.


Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:     Yes and an RGB version would be for printing greyscale images only also.
 There are already plenty of apps out there for RGB profiles - including the
 one that comes with the instrument one purchases to use QTR Create ICC.
 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-05 by dlruckus

I'm not sure why either unless it would be useful in toning B&W and
controling subtle shifts. If so, I'm all for it.

Regards
Duane



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ferdinand_paris"
<ferdinand_paris@y...> wrote:

> Second, I don't understand why, for QTR users, you need an RGB version
> of QTR-Create_ICC? 
 Perhaps someone can explain it to me.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-05 by Steve Kale

If you have a monotone RGB file you can still convert to a greyscale output
ICC profile for printing.  You don't need an "RGB monotone ICC profile".
The only issue arises if your printer driver/RIP requires an RGB rather than
single channel image file.  The I suspect you could convert to a greyscale
ICC profile and then assign Adobe RGB (and so keep the file numbers the
same) and then use that for printing through a non-colour-managed driver.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Tom Husband <thusband@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 08:53:55 -0800 (PST)
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing
> 
> I thought an RGB-QTR-Create-ICC app would be for a monotone rgb file where as
> the existing QTR-Create-ICC is for grayscale only.  You're saying that an RGB
> version would be used for grayscale?  Man, I'm getting real confused now.
> 
> I use an X-rite 810 to make curves and icc profiles so I don't have an app,
> other than QTR-Create-ICC,  that will create icc files.
> 
> 
> Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:     Yes and an RGB version would
> be for printing greyscale images only also.
>  There are already plenty of apps out there for RGB profiles - including the
>  one that comes with the instrument one purchases to use QTR Create ICC.

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Premium Printer Profiles for B&W Printing

2005-12-06 by ferdinand_paris

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> If you have a monotone RGB file you can still convert
> to a greyscale output ICC profile for printing.
> You don't need an "RGB monotone ICC profile".

First Tom - thanks for your clarification about why you want the RGB
create profiles.

Steve - the reasons I want a monotone RGB profile are twofold.

1.  Although I have to print to file when using Qimage with QTR, I
want to make it as seamless as possible.  With the RGB profile, I have
QTR monitor the print to file directory, and printing starts
automatically.  If I was to convert to grayscale between Qimage and
QTR, it makes the process more tedious.  I'd have to open the image in
PSCS and do the conversion manually, and then send it to QTR.  Not a
big deal once, but every time ...?

2. I did try this once or twice, and I noticed that the histogram
shifted to the left when I flattened the image from three channels to
one, and the print via QTR was correspondingly darker.  This probably
merely illustrates that there is another aspect of colour/gray
management that I don't understand, and I did this conversion the
wrong way, but it serves to illustrate that using the RGB profiles
when printing through Qimage really is convenient.

This is one area where a mac would be useful, although I think that PC
users are still better off with Qimage, given that it means that you
don't need to create copies of images for printing - as Qimage does
all the resampling and resizing on-the-fly.

F-P

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