Digital BW, The Print

I am part of a large project in which we are scanning thousands of old glass plates & films. It
was proposed that we at least calibrate our monitors for Win & Mac.

Decision makers are asking for a detailed explanation for this request. I have been asked to
articulate just why we need such hardware / software.

Can someone offer such an explanation? 
Thank you, -Barry

Hi Barry-

It sounds like there are more issues here than monitor calibration. You are
about to start a large, very expensive project. IMHO, you need someone fully
qualified to manage many different aspects of the project- monitor
calibration, while important, is certainly not the most important, nor the
most difficult, issue to address.

The decision makers need to pay for this management; if they are unwilling,
it will definitely end up being a case of ³Pay me now, or pay me later².  Or
worse, they will spend lots of money, and not get value.

My 2¢...

Regards,

Bill Morse

Wm. Morse Editions
450 Harrison Ave. Studio 227
Boston, MA 02118
(617) 429-3298

 www.MorseEditions.com

PS- Please note new email and web address


on 12/5/05 11:40 AM, Barry Koblenz wrote:

> I am part of a large project in which we are scanning thousands of old glass
> plates & films. It
> was proposed that we at least calibrate our monitors for Win & Mac.
> 
> Decision makers are asking for a detailed explanation for this request. I have
> been asked to
> articulate just why we need such hardware / software.
> 
> Can someone offer such an explanation?
> Thank you, -Barry
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Barry,

Calibrating all your monitors to the same standard (color temperature, 
luminance, gamma, etc) will make sure that all people see the same 
image on their monitors when editing and correcting.  I'd also 
recommend you set your room lighting and viewing lights so they are 
about the same at each work station for the best results.  If you are 
working on color images, the above is fairly important, since you have 
both luminosity and color to balance.  The eye is not very consistant 
when it comes to "calibration".  A device will help guarantee that 
consistancy.

If all your work is B&W, and you are working in grayscale mode, a case 
could be made that it is less critical, since you will be more 
interested in tonal distribution and white and black points.  But you 
still want to set your white point, black point, gamma and luminance so 
they are pretty close on each monitor.  

If I had a project of that size, I wouldn't hesistate to spend $250 on 
a calibration device and software.  I guess it all depends on how 
critical it is that the images retain good shadows, highlights and 
consistant tonal distribution.  

Lou


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Barry Koblenz 
<zod111@y...> wrote:
>
> I am part of a large project in which we are scanning thousands of 
old glass plates & films. It
> was proposed that we at least calibrate our monitors for Win & Mac.
> 
> Decision makers are asking for a detailed explanation for this 
request. I have been asked to

> articulate just why we need such hardware / software.
> 
> Can someone offer such an explanation? 
> Thank you, -Barry
>

A project of this size without prior experience is unsettling.  If the
collection has much value, or the desired results are high quality, you want
to make sure that an experienced scan operator is involved before purchasing
any equipment, handling the images, or starting the project.

Posting to the scanner yahoo groups could be worthwhile; hopefully you are
not on a tight budget and deadline to complete this Barry.  I hope it works
out well for you, it sounds like a very nice project to be involved in.

Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Louis Dina
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 1:39 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Monitor Calibration Hardware Justification

Barry,

Calibrating all your monitors to the same standard (color temperature,
luminance, gamma, etc) will make sure that all people see the same
image on their monitors when editing and correcting.  I'd also
recommend you set your room lighting and viewing lights so they are
about the same at each work station for the best results.  If you are
working on color images, the above is fairly important, since you have
both luminosity and color to balance.  The eye is not very consistant
when it comes to "calibration".  A device will help guarantee that
consistancy.

If all your work is B&W, and you are working in grayscale mode, a case
could be made that it is less critical, since you will be more
interested in tonal distribution and white and black points.  But you
still want to set your white point, black point, gamma and luminance so
they are pretty close on each monitor.

If I had a project of that size, I wouldn't hesistate to spend $250 on
a calibration device and software.  I guess it all depends on how
critical it is that the images retain good shadows, highlights and
consistant tonal distribution.

Lou


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Barry Koblenz
<zod111@y...> wrote:
>
> I am part of a large project in which we are scanning thousands of
old glass plates & films. It
> was proposed that we at least calibrate our monitors for Win & Mac.
>
> Decision makers are asking for a detailed explanation for this
request. I have been asked to
> articulate just why we need such hardware / software.
>
> Can someone offer such an explanation?
> Thank you, -Barry
>






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you.

--- Louis Dina <lbdina@...> wrote:

> Barry,
> 
> Calibrating all your monitors to the same standard (color temperature, 
> luminance, gamma, etc) will make sure that all people see the same 
> image on their monitors when editing and correcting.  I'd also 
> recommend you set your room lighting and viewing lights so they are 
> about the same at each work station for the best results.  If you are 
> working on color images, the above is fairly important, since you have 
> both luminosity and color to balance.  The eye is not very consistant 
> when it comes to "calibration".  A device will help guarantee that 
> consistancy.
> 
> If all your work is B&W, and you are working in grayscale mode, a case 
> could be made that it is less critical, since you will be more 
> interested in tonal distribution and white and black points.  But you 
> still want to set your white point, black point, gamma and luminance so 
> they are pretty close on each monitor.  
> 
> If I had a project of that size, I wouldn't hesistate to spend $250 on 
> a calibration device and software.  I guess it all depends on how 
> critical it is that the images retain good shadows, highlights and 
> consistant tonal distribution.  
> 
> Lou
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Barry Koblenz 
> <zod111@y...> wrote:
> >
> > I am part of a large project in which we are scanning thousands of 
> old glass plates & films. It
> > was proposed that we at least calibrate our monitors for Win & Mac.
> > 
> > Decision makers are asking for a detailed explanation for this 
> request. I have been asked to
> > articulate just why we need such hardware / software.
> > 
> > Can someone offer such an explanation? 
> > Thank you, -Barry
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

> From: Barry Koblenz
>
> I am part of a large project in which we are scanning thousands
> of old glass plates & films. It
> was proposed that we at least calibrate our monitors for Win & Mac.
>
> Decision makers are asking for a detailed explanation for this
> request. I have been asked to
> articulate just why we need such hardware / software.
>
> Can someone offer such an explanation?

You didn't say if you were scanning color or B&W. Color is obviously more
demanding.

Monitor calibration is important if you intend to manually adjust the images
until they look good. If you're doing that on an uncalibrated display, then
you may actually be degrading the images, not improving them.

If your goal is simply to scan the images, not to edit them, then monitor
calibration is less important. However, scanner calibration is probably more
important.

Fortunately, scanner calibration is about the cheapest form of calibration,
because it doesn't require any equipment other than a scanner target. An IT8
target is a common example. There are an number of inexpensive profiling
packages out there that can handle scanners. My software is quite old, so I
can't give you specific recommendations from among what's out there now, but
it's simple enough in principle that I would expect any package would do a
decent job.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Barry Koblenz" <zod111@...>> Can someone offer such an 
explanation?
> Thank you, -Barry

Because you need consistency across all platforms and machines, to ensure 
WYSIWYPrint
so the endresult is "correct" and to avoid to have to reprint time after 
time again and pay for editors to keep re-correcting
the images aka Time still = money! the money is well spend (of course you 
need to consider cost of color calibration vs cost of project, and or future 
project) however you will always need this.

best of luck

kindest regards

Henrik

PS: english is my second language (primary danish)

Hi Barry,

probably worth getting a skilled person to perform the task of calibration 
across the board

anyway,

just my $.02

Henrik

Barry,
I have a friend in Pacifica, California. His name is Steve Johnson. 
Steve and an associate Put together a monumental, limited editon  
photographical book called "The Great Central Valley of California."

Steve had to restore very old historical documents that had sat in 
various old record storage areas since early California times. His 
project included all of the issues that you raise and more. 

I do not know who you are doing this for, but if they are really 
worried about the cost of the hardware to get the job done, it may be 
a very hard sell. After listening to Steve Johnson discuss the ordeal 
of putting the book together by restoring old historical documents 
pictures,plates, et al and then photographing and cataloging 
everything, I realize that it takes a large amount of resources and 
time to properly complete such a project. 

In effect, what they are asking you for is a request for proposal. It 
will probably be somewhat expensive just to properly put the proposal 
together because there will be a need for some specialized thoroughly 
knowledgeable input to get it right. You can give Steve a call or 
email him at Stephen Johnson Photography in Pacifica. His email for 
his news letter is sjphoto-news@.... if you want to call him, 
you go to his website at  http://www.sjphoto.com/ and get his 
telephone number. He is a reknown enviromental photographer and 
consultant. 

Luther Hert
Seaside, Ca.
831-393-9622

Steve is an expert at this and would be an asset in such a venture. 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Barry Koblenz 
<zod111@y...> wrote:
>
> I am part of a large project in which we are scanning thousands of 
old glass plates & films. It
> was proposed that we at least calibrate our monitors for Win & Mac.
> 
> Decision makers are asking for a detailed explanation for this 
request. I have been asked to

> articulate just why we need such hardware / software.
> 
> Can someone offer such an explanation? 
> Thank you, -Barry
>

Barry:
I see you are getting some good responses to your question. Let me 
just chime in having worked on museum type projects for the last 
twenty years. If, indeed, your client is a cultural institution, 
justifications are a way of life.  With money in the non-profit 
sector always being tight, there is nothing that better than to point 
to museum-type standards agencies to help support your program. One 
such group is the National Initiative for a Network of Cultural 
Heritage (NINCH).  Their published guidelines " The NINCH Guide to 
Good Practice in the Digital Representation and Management of 
CulturaL Heritage Materials" is a great tool. Section six deals with 
the question you asked. I think you may want to explore this whole 
document. This resource is found here:
http://www.nyu.edu/its/humanities/ninchguide/

Another cost analysis tool for these large scale projects is offered 
by the Mellon Foundation found here:

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Imaging/Databases/1998mellon/toc.html

This information has been around awhile but the costing models may 
give you, and your client, more of an idea about the depth of these 
type projects.
Best of Luck,
Lou Meluso
The Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art

Wow! This is great. Thank you very, very much. 

--- lou4photo <lmeluso@...> wrote:

> Barry:
> I see you are getting some good responses to your question. Let me 
> just chime in having worked on museum type projects for the last 
> twenty years. If, indeed, your client is a cultural institution, 
> justifications are a way of life.  With money in the non-profit 
> sector always being tight, there is nothing that better than to point 
> to museum-type standards agencies to help support your program. One 
> such group is the National Initiative for a Network of Cultural 
> Heritage (NINCH).  Their published guidelines " The NINCH Guide to 
> Good Practice in the Digital Representation and Management of 
> CulturaL Heritage Materials" is a great tool. Section six deals with 
> the question you asked. I think you may want to explore this whole 
> document. This resource is found here:
> http://www.nyu.edu/its/humanities/ninchguide/
> 
> Another cost analysis tool for these large scale projects is offered 
> by the Mellon Foundation found here:
> 
> http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Imaging/Databases/1998mellon/toc.html
> 
> This information has been around awhile but the costing models may 
> give you, and your client, more of an idea about the depth of these 
> type projects.
> Best of Luck,
> Lou Meluso
> The Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Barry may have already heard far more than he wanted or needed to hear 
regarding his questions, but I can't help but add this:

It may be the case that you have to justify the issue and expense of monitor 
calibration software and hardware to people who know absolutely nothing about 
these things.  What I have found helpful in making the kinds of points that 
others on this list have so keenly enumerated is to use an analogy.  For 
example, you might say to somebody that doing this kind of work without having 
a high-quality monitor that can be calibrated would be like being asked to 
make an audio recording of musicians without having a good stereo and a good 
set of speakers through which to listen to the recording.  Without those, how 
would you know if the recording you made was any good?

I'm sure you can come up with other examples that may be more appropriate for 
the people you'll have to convince.  Good luck - it sounds like an interesting 
project.

Stephen Petegorsky