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2006-04-26 by Tyler Boley
Just found this on a website... "Fibrebased silver halide B&W prints are still considered to be superior in quality by many, but this may change with the introduction of Innova Art FibaGloss paper. When used with the latest matt black pigment inks, this paper shows an incredibly high DMax of 2.7" Is this incorrect, is this paper really supposed to be used with MK rather than PK? Thanks, Tyler
2006-04-26 by sagaface
Tyler, I saw that, too...on "Cameratown". It's got to be a mistake but it would be great if it weren't. Sarah --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote:
> > Just found this on a website... > > "Fibrebased silver halide B&W prints are still considered to be > superior in quality by many, but this may change with the introduction > of Innova Art FibaGloss paper. When used with the latest matt black > pigment inks, this paper shows an incredibly high DMax of 2.7" > > Is this incorrect, is this paper really supposed to be used with MK > rather than PK? > Thanks, > Tyler >
2006-04-26 by edrudolpho
Tyler, I have used this paper with PK, not MK. I did notice on the Bowhaus website that they have profiles for Silver Rag using MK and when I questioned them about that was told that they have developed curves that use only LK and LLK plus toning inks, and that they still get a very good DMax. Maybe the claim you found is something like that? Ed --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote:
> > Just found this on a website... > > "Fibrebased silver halide B&W prints are still considered to be > superior in quality by many, but this may change with the introduction > of Innova Art FibaGloss paper. When used with the latest matt black > pigment inks, this paper shows an incredibly high DMax of 2.7" > > Is this incorrect, is this paper really supposed to be used with MK > rather than PK? > Thanks, > Tyler >
2006-04-26 by elwood@wsnconsult.com
Not according to what I have read. Achieving a DMax of 2.7 with MK I believe is next to impossible. Nice if it true but I doubt it sincerely Woody Spedden
----- Original Message ----
From: Tyler Boley <tyler@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 4:11:59 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] fibaprint gloss/ da vinci users
Just found this on a website...
"Fibrebased silver halide B&W prints are still considered to be
superior in quality by many, but this may change with the introduction
of Innova Art FibaGloss paper. When used with the latest matt black
pigment inks, this paper shows an incredibly high DMax of 2.7"
Is this incorrect, is this paper really supposed to be used with MK
rather than PK?
Thanks,
Tyler
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-04-26 by Tyler Boley
I wasn't so much interested in their claim as much as what the
intended K ink is for it...
Tyler
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <elwood@...> wrote:
>
> Not according to what I have read. Achieving a DMax of 2.7 with MK I
believe is next to impossible. Nice if it true but I doubt it sincerely
>
> Woody Spedden
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Tyler Boley <tyler@...>
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 4:11:59 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] fibaprint gloss/ da vinci users
>
> Just found this on a website...
>
> "Fibrebased silver halide B&W prints are still considered to be
> superior in quality by many, but this may change with the introduction
> of Innova Art FibaGloss paper. When used with the latest matt black
> pigment inks, this paper shows an incredibly high DMax of 2.7"
>
> Is this incorrect, is this paper really supposed to be used with MK
> rather than PK?
> Thanks,
> Tyler
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
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> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from
the membership without notice.
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B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
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and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the
Files section:
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>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER
AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
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CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE
LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES),
RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD
PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
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photography Learn digital
photography Digital photography
college
Digital photography
Digital photography web site
Digital photography course
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Service. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
2006-04-26 by edrudolpho
Tyler, I believe it's PK. Jim Doyle, what do you say? Ed --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote:
> > I wasn't so much interested in their claim as much as what the > intended K ink is for it... > Tyler
2006-04-26 by Paul Roark
Assuming Permajet's version is the same, Eboni gives a dull 1.5. PK is definitely called for. Paul www.PaulRoark.com
> -----Original Message----- > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tyler > Boley > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 2:12 PM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Digital BW] fibaprint gloss/ da vinci users > > Just found this on a website... > > "Fibrebased silver halide B&W prints are still considered to be > superior in quality by many, but this may change with the introduction > of Innova Art FibaGloss paper. When used with the latest matt black > pigment inks, this paper shows an incredibly high DMax of 2.7" > > Is this incorrect, is this paper really supposed to be used with MK > rather than PK? > Thanks, > Tyler > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as > they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files > section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >
2006-04-27 by Tyler Boley
thanks all, that was my assumption. Tyler --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote: > > Assuming Permajet's version is the same, Eboni gives a dull 1.5. PK is > definitely called for. > > Paul > www.PaulRoark.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tyler > > Boley > > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 2:12 PM > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [Digital BW] fibaprint gloss/ da vinci users > > > > Just found this on a website... > > > > "Fibrebased silver halide B&W prints are still considered to be > > superior in quality by many, but this may change with the introduction > > of Innova Art FibaGloss paper. When used with the latest matt black > > pigment inks, this paper shows an incredibly high DMax of 2.7" > > > > Is this incorrect, is this paper really supposed to be used with MK > > rather than PK? > > Thanks, > > Tyler > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as > > they are often being updated. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > > page. > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > > them short. > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > > membership without notice. > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > > the membership. > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner > > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files > > section: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND > > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO > > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR > > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF > > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE > > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN > > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE > > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) > > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > >
2006-04-27 by Greg
With a claimed dmax of 2.7, I would like to know what device they used to measure that low? I've pointed out once before that all of the common spectros have a specification of 2.5D, and that very small changes in the measured value at that end creates very large dmax changes.
2006-04-27 by Ernst Dinkla
Paul Roark wrote:
> Assuming Permajet's version is the same, Eboni gives a dull 1.5. PK is
> definitely called for.
Measuring a QTR target after some weeks: Epson 9000 ... 1.72 D
with Eboni on Fibaprint Gloss F and of course gloss
difference. Not an MK paper.
Ernst
--
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )2006-04-27 by Daniel Staver
You need PK. I haven't been able to get much higher than 2.2 though. I have no idea how you're supposed to get 2.7 on that paper. Even the sample they sent me had a dmax of 2.24, so it seems like they don't know either. -- Daniel Staver http://daniel.staver.no > I wasn't so much interested in their claim as much as what > the intended K ink is for it...
2006-04-27 by Howard Shaw
Daniel Staver wrote: > You need PK. I haven't been able to get much higher than 2.2 though. I have > no idea how you're supposed to get 2.7 on that paper. Even the sample they > sent me had a dmax of 2.24, so it seems like they don't know either. > > -- > Daniel Staver > http://daniel.staver.no > On the Innova paper I've measured 2.47 with the MIS R220 PKN & 2.42 with the UT-FS Cyan position ink. Howard
2006-04-27 by Daniel Staver
I'm using MIS PK in a 2100. What settings did you use when printing? -- Daniel Staver http://daniel.staver.no > On the Innova paper I've measured 2.47 with the MIS R220 PKN > & 2.42 with the UT-FS Cyan position ink.
2006-04-27 by K2 Chittin
Tyler Innova FibaGloss is supposed to be used with PK, although I have to confess that I've never tried using it with MK. I suspect the results wouldn't be satisfactory. We had feedback from a couple of people saying that they saw bronzing even with PK but the rest of our customers appear to be happy campers using PK. K2 www.squidtechnology.com Tyler Boley wrote:
> Just found this on a website... > > "Fibrebased silver halide B&W prints are still considered to be > superior in quality by many, but this may change with the introduction > of Innova Art FibaGloss paper. When used with the latest matt black > pigment inks, this paper shows an incredibly high DMax of 2.7" > > Is this incorrect, is this paper really supposed to be used with MK > rather than PK? > Thanks, > Tyler > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >
2006-04-27 by Howard Shaw
Daniel Staver wrote: > I'm using MIS PK in a 2100. What settings did you use when printing? > > -- > Daniel Staver > http://daniel.staver.no > > >> On the Innova paper I've measured 2.47 with the MIS R220 PKN >> & 2.42 with the UT-FS Cyan position ink. > This is on a R220 with qtr in calibration mode. Matte paper, 2880dpi, Better, Ordered. I believe there is a difference between the R220 PK and the normal PK but whether that accounts for the better dmax with this paper I don't know. I'm usng an Xrite 810 and my readings generally chime with others I read about on this list. Howard
2006-04-27 by Peter Marshall
It's also on the TIPA awards page. Not like journalists to get things wrong is it:-) Peter Marshall petermarshall@... _________________________________________________________________ My London Diary http://mylondondiary.co.uk/ London's Industrial Heritage: http://petermarshallphotos.co.uk/ The Buildings of London etc: http://londonphotographs.co.uk/ and elsewhere...... sagaface wrote:
> Tyler, I saw that, too...on "Cameratown". It's got to be a mistake but it would be great if it > weren't. > > Sarah > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote: > >> Just found this on a website... >> >> "Fibrebased silver halide B&W prints are still considered to be >> superior in quality by many, but this may change with the introduction >> of Innova Art FibaGloss paper. When used with the latest matt black >> pigment inks, this paper shows an incredibly high DMax of 2.7" >> >> Is this incorrect, is this paper really supposed to be used with MK >> rather than PK? >> Thanks, >> Tyler >> >> > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > >
2006-04-27 by Jim Doyle
TB It�s a PK Paper Like Silver rag and The Upcoming Hahnemuhle Pearl The F Type Gloss just got this years TIPA Award.. Jim Doyle J. Doyle Enterprises LLC 114 Old Orchard Rd Cherry Hill NJ 08003 856-424-8660 HYPERLINK "http://www.shadesofpaper.com"www.shadesofpaper.com _____
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tyler
Boley
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 7:07 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] fibaprint gloss/ da vinci users
I wasn't so much interested in their claim as much as what the
intended K ink is for it...
Tyler
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <elwood@...> wrote:
>
> Not according to what I have read. Achieving a DMax of 2.7 with MK I
believe is next to impossible. Nice if it true but I doubt it sincerely
>
> Woody Spedden
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Tyler Boley <tyler@...>
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 4:11:59 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] fibaprint gloss/ da vinci users
>
> Just found this on a website...
>
> "Fibrebased silver halide B&W prints are still considered to be
> superior in quality by many, but this may change with the introduction
> of Innova Art FibaGloss paper. When used with the latest matt black
> pigment inks, this paper shows an incredibly high DMax of 2.7"
>
> Is this incorrect, is this paper really supposed to be used with MK
> rather than PK?
> Thanks,
> Tyler
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
resources as they are often being updated.
>
> HYPERLINK
"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint"http://groups.ya
hoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from
the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules
and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the
Files section:
> HYPERLINK
"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/"http://gr
oups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER
AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE
LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES),
RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD
PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Digital wedding
photography Learn digital
photography Digital photography
college
Digital photography
Digital photography web site
Digital photography course
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.
HYPERLINK
"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint"http://groups.ya
hoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-04-27 by Paul Roark
Likewise, Crane SR and Permajet Fibre Gloss are getting 2.2 - 2.3 with the beta UT-3D (using the dark grays to generate the black, 1440, Epson 2200, EEM paper setting). I just did a couple of tests of the PJ Fibre Gloss. It hit 2.28 at both 1440 and 2880. The next-day dmax only drops to 2.26, which is less than the usual dmax loss that I've seen with the older technology glossy papers. Many of those with huge 2.4 dmax readings just after printing end up below this after a few days. Paul www.PaulRoark.com
> -----Original Message----- > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel > Staver > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:09 PM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [Digital BW] fibaprint gloss/ da vinci users > > You need PK. I haven't been able to get much higher than 2.2 though. I > have > no idea how you're supposed to get 2.7 on that paper. Even the sample they > sent me had a dmax of 2.24, so it seems like they don't know either. > > -- > Daniel Staver > http://daniel.staver.no > > > > I wasn't so much interested in their claim as much as what > > the intended K ink is for it... > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as > they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner > and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files > section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND > MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE > OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
2006-04-27 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote: > > Likewise, Crane SR and Permajet Fibre Gloss are getting 2.2 - 2.3 with the > beta UT-3D (using the dark grays to generate the black, 1440, Epson 2200, > EEM paper setting). > I looked into the dmax numbers a little, and I thik I have a vague idea of why they are getting such low numbers. It might (stress might) be simply a difference between the measurement mode being used. Most of us are using Status T for density, yet the Xrite 810 says it uses Status A (reflection and still has a 2.5D spec), while they may be using Status E measurements to reach the 2.7D. I saw a fleeting reference to the difference between Status T and Status E being that the E value may be lower. I haven't had the time to go and research it yet, so if someone knows what the differences are, or has the time to go looking, there might be an answer.
2006-04-27 by Howard Shaw
Daniel Staver wrote: > I'm using MIS PK in a 2100. What settings did you use when printing? > > -- > Daniel Staver > http://daniel.staver.no > Out of interest I measured the UT-FS Cyan position ink with the same qtr settings on the 2100 and the measurement on a hair-dried strip is only 2.15 (Eboni, which is what I have in 2100 measures 1.64). I retested the now week-old R220 strip and that still shows 2.46 for the R220 PKN while the UT-FS-C has slightly increased to 2.44. This makes me think the capabilities of the 2100 & the R220 are different although it remains to be seen how the R220 PKN (which I believe has a lighter pigment load than the regular PK) might perform in the 2100. Howard
2006-04-28 by Daniel Staver
I measured the UT7 C yesterday printed with QTR at 2880dpi and got 2.18, the M is 2.29. I have a black cartridge filled with R220 PK. I'll measure it next time I do some glossy printing. -- Daniel Staver http://daniel.staver.no
> Out of interest I measured the UT-FS Cyan position ink with > the same qtr settings on the 2100 and the measurement on a > hair-dried strip is only > 2.15 (Eboni, which is what I have in 2100 measures 1.64). > > I retested the now week-old R220 strip and that still shows > 2.46 for the R220 PKN while the UT-FS-C has slightly > increased to 2.44. > > This makes me think the capabilities of the 2100 & the R220 > are different although it remains to be seen how the R220 PKN > (which I believe has a lighter pigment load than the regular > PK) might perform in the 2100.
2006-07-09 by Ernst Dinkla
Greg wrote:
> I looked into the dmax numbers a little, and I thik I have a vague
> idea of why they are getting such low numbers. It might (stress
> might) be simply a difference between the measurement mode being
> used. Most of us are using Status T for density, yet the Xrite 810
> says it uses Status A (reflection and still has a 2.5D spec), while
> they may be using Status E measurements to reach the 2.7D. I saw a
> fleeting reference to the difference between Status T and Status E
> being that the E value may be lower. I haven't had the time to go and
> research it yet, so if someone knows what the differences are, or has
> the time to go looking, there might be an answer.
Greg,
I'm busy calibrating Fibaprint Gloss F with a Spectrocam and
do not get a higher Dmax than 1.94 with MIS UT PK on an Epson
9000. I do not see much difference between the Status T, A or
E with this spectrometer. And the lowest L is 11.80. With QTR
I have to limit on 60 in the calibration strip as there's no D
gain above that. Boosting doesn't help either. I have used the
Premium Glossy Photo Paper setting in QTR but do not expect
any difference with other settings and 1440 unidirectional.
Any suggestions to get a higher Dmax ?
Ernst
--
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )2006-07-09 by Shilesh Jani
Using Epson 4000 loaded with K3 (4800) PK ink, QTR 1440 Super/Better/Ordered I am getting 2.5 when measured with Heiland PM Densitometer. This is NOT a colorimeter. From experience I know this will dry-down to ~2.4+ overnight. A light coat of PrintShield usually bring this up to 2.6+ I am getting the same results +/- 0.05D with the K3 PK in 2400 printer. Dmax usually comes in at 75% or 80% ink limits. Ernst, maybe it is the MIS PK ink? Shilesh --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@...> wrote: > > Greg wrote: > > > I looked into the dmax numbers a little, and I thik I have a vague > > idea of why they are getting such low numbers. It might (stress > > might) be simply a difference between the measurement mode being > > used. Most of us are using Status T for density, yet the Xrite 810 > > says it uses Status A (reflection and still has a 2.5D spec), while > > they may be using Status E measurements to reach the 2.7D. I saw a > > fleeting reference to the difference between Status T and Status E > > being that the E value may be lower. I haven't had the time to go and > > research it yet, so if someone knows what the differences are, or has
> > the time to go looking, there might be an answer. > > Greg, > > I'm busy calibrating Fibaprint Gloss F with a Spectrocam and > do not get a higher Dmax than 1.94 with MIS UT PK on an Epson > 9000. I do not see much difference between the Status T, A or > E with this spectrometer. And the lowest L is 11.80. With QTR > I have to limit on 60 in the calibration strip as there's no D > gain above that. Boosting doesn't help either. I have used the > Premium Glossy Photo Paper setting in QTR but do not expect > any difference with other settings and 1440 unidirectional. > > Any suggestions to get a higher Dmax ? > > Ernst > > -- > > -- > Ernst Dinkla > > > www.pigment-print.com > ( unvollendet ) >
2006-07-09 by Carl Schofield
MIS K4 PK does seem to give me slightly lower dmax compared to Epson K3 PK. I get about 2.1 to 2.2 for Innova F Type in both my 2400 and 4000. Silver Rag and Hahnemuhle Pearl do better with dmax closer to 2.3 - 2.4. Carl
On Jul 9, 2006, at 9:21 AM, Shilesh Jani wrote: > Using Epson 4000 loaded with K3 (4800) PK ink, QTR 1440 > Super/Better/Ordered I am getting 2.5 when measured with Heiland PM > Densitometer. This is NOT a colorimeter. > > From experience I know this will dry-down to ~2.4+ overnight. A light > coat of PrintShield usually bring this up to 2.6+ > > I am getting the same results +/- 0.05D with the K3 PK in 2400 > printer. > > Dmax usually comes in at 75% or 80% ink limits. > > Ernst, maybe it is the MIS PK ink? > > Shilesh > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla > <E.Dinkla@...> wrote: >> >> Greg wrote: >> >>> I looked into the dmax numbers a little, and I thik I have a > vague >>> idea of why they are getting such low numbers. It might (stress >>> might) be simply a difference between the measurement mode being >>> used. Most of us are using Status T for density, yet the Xrite > 810 >>> says it uses Status A (reflection and still has a 2.5D spec), > while >>> they may be using Status E measurements to reach the 2.7D. I saw > a >>> fleeting reference to the difference between Status T and Status > E >>> being that the E value may be lower. I haven't had the time to go > and >>> research it yet, so if someone knows what the differences are, or > has >>> the time to go looking, there might be an answer. >> >> Greg, >> >> I'm busy calibrating Fibaprint Gloss F with a Spectrocam and >> do not get a higher Dmax than 1.94 with MIS UT PK on an Epson >> 9000. I do not see much difference between the Status T, A or >> E with this spectrometer. And the lowest L is 11.80. With QTR >> I have to limit on 60 in the calibration strip as there's no D >> gain above that. Boosting doesn't help either. I have used the >> Premium Glossy Photo Paper setting in QTR but do not expect >> any difference with other settings and 1440 unidirectional. >> >> Any suggestions to get a higher Dmax ? >> >> Ernst >> >> -- >> >> -- >> Ernst Dinkla >> >> >> www.pigment-print.com >> ( unvollendet ) >>
2006-07-09 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@...> wrote: > > Greg wrote: > > Greg, > > I'm busy calibrating Fibaprint Gloss F with a Spectrocam and > do not get a higher Dmax than 1.94 with MIS UT PK on an Epson > 9000. I do not see much difference between the Status T, A or > E with this spectrometer. And the lowest L is 11.80. With QTR > I have to limit on 60 in the calibration strip as there's no D > gain above that. Boosting doesn't help either. I have used the > Premium Glossy Photo Paper setting in QTR but do not expect > any difference with other settings and 1440 unidirectional. > > Any suggestions to get a higher Dmax ? > The only thing I might suggest would be to see if you can find a way to make a pause between each pass. I found this through an error with my RIP long ago. If the print was still spooling, and had to wait for data, it would make a pass, and wait for data, then make another pass, etc. The density of black and color was better than I could get when it was printing at normal speed. But it's also been a very long time since I've messed around with a photo black ink and luster or gloss paper. I can't completely remember what I was getting for dmax, but I'm pretty sure is was under a Lab L=10, a value of 6-7 on a luster paper seems to ring a bell, but I'm not sure. What do you get when you print the per channel limit/linearization chart from QTR (or any other RIP)? Just wondering if you are getting too much of a lighter shade mixed in to get a good dmax. There is a new version of the Evolution RIP that is finally almost ready to ship, mine will go out on Monday. This version has some new B/W capabilities that might prove good. Unfortunately I need to replace some of the flexible tubing in my 9500 before I can get things working. And then I need to mix a couple shades of gray ink.
2006-07-09 by Carl Schofield
Recently, my email responses seem to take anywhere from 8 to 24 hrs to appear so I'm trying this via website to see if posting is any quicker. This is just a cut and paste of message sent this AM.
From: scho@... Subject: Re: [Digital BW] fibaprint gloss/ da vinci users Date: July 9, 2006 9:39:26 AM EDT To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com MIS K4 PK does seem to give me slightly lower dmax compared to Epson K3 PK. I get about 2.1 to 2.2 for Innova F Type in both my 2400 and 4000. Silver Rag and Hahnemuhle Pearl do better with dmax closer to 2.3 - 2.4. Carl On Jul 9, 2006, at 9:21 AM, Shilesh Jani wrote: Using Epson 4000 loaded with K3 (4800) PK ink, QTR 1440 Super/Better/Ordered I am getting 2.5 when measured with Heiland PM Densitometer. This is NOT a colorimeter. From experience I know this will dry-down to ~2.4+ overnight. A light coat of PrintShield usually bring this up to 2.6+ I am getting the same results +/- 0.05D with the K3 PK in 2400 printer. Dmax usually comes in at 75% or 80% ink limits. Ernst, maybe it is the MIS PK ink? Shilesh --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@...> wrote: Greg wrote: I looked into the dmax numbers a little, and I thik I have a vague idea of why they are getting such low numbers. It might (stress might) be simply a difference between the measurement mode being used. Most of us are using Status T for density, yet the Xrite 810 says it uses Status A (reflection and still has a 2.5D spec), while they may be using Status E measurements to reach the 2.7D. I saw a fleeting reference to the difference between Status T and Status E being that the E value may be lower. I haven't had the time to go and research it yet, so if someone knows what the differences are, or has the time to go looking, there might be an answer. Greg, I'm busy calibrating Fibaprint Gloss F with a Spectrocam and do not get a higher Dmax than 1.94 with MIS UT PK on an Epson 9000. I do not see much difference between the Status T, A or E with this spectrometer. And the lowest L is 11.80. With QTR I have to limit on 60 in the calibration strip as there's no D gain above that. Boosting doesn't help either. I have used the Premium Glossy Photo Paper setting in QTR but do not expect any difference with other settings and 1440 unidirectional. Any suggestions to get a higher Dmax ? Ernst -
2006-07-09 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Schofield" <scho@...> wrote: > > Recently, my email responses seem to take anywhere from 8 to 24 hrs to appear so I'm > trying this via website to see if posting is any quicker. This is just a cut and paste of > message sent this AM. > It's normally about 5 or 10 minutes through the Yahoo interface, but I've had as much as 24 hours once or maybe twice.
2006-07-09 by Ernst Dinkla
Greg wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla
> <E.Dinkla@...> wrote:
>> Greg wrote:
>>
>> Greg,
>>
>> I'm busy calibrating Fibaprint Gloss F with a Spectrocam and
>> do not get a higher Dmax than 1.94 with MIS UT PK on an Epson
>> 9000. I do not see much difference between the Status T, A or
>> E with this spectrometer. And the lowest L is 11.80. With QTR
>> I have to limit on 60 in the calibration strip as there's no D
>> gain above that. Boosting doesn't help either. I have used the
>> Premium Glossy Photo Paper setting in QTR but do not expect
>> any difference with other settings and 1440 unidirectional.
>>
>> Any suggestions to get a higher Dmax ?
>>
>
> The only thing I might suggest would be to see if you can find a way
> to make a pause between each pass. I found this through an error with
> my RIP long ago. If the print was still spooling, and had to wait for
> data, it would make a pass, and wait for data, then make another pass,
> etc. The density of black and color was better than I could get when
> it was printing at normal speed. But it's also been a very long time
> since I've messed around with a photo black ink and luster or gloss
> paper. I can't completely remember what I was getting for dmax, but
> I'm pretty sure is was under a Lab L=10, a value of 6-7 on a luster
> paper seems to ring a bell, but I'm not sure.
I quoted a wrong L number the 1.94 Dmax is10.84 L. Too low a
density in my opinion.This printer is already way too slow to
set longer pauses one way or another. I expected that the 9000
would deliver enough density, it is alright with matte papers.
Could be that the MIS PK pints that I received on Thursday are
not delivering what I want.
> What do you get when you print the per channel limit/linearization
> chart from QTR (or any other RIP)? Just wondering if you are getting
> too much of a lighter shade mixed in to get a good dmax.
That happened with the boosting in the first curve creation.
But the numbers I gave were of the calibration stepwedge
before curve creation. Measuring it a day later the better
Dmax went to the 55% step while it was on the 60% step after
half an hour forced drying. Still around the 1.94 D number. I
want to be above 2.1 at least.
Have to think this over.
Ernst
--
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )2006-07-10 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@...> wrote: > > > That happened with the boosting in the first curve creation. > But the numbers I gave were of the calibration stepwedge > before curve creation. Measuring it a day later the better > Dmax went to the 55% step while it was on the 60% step after > half an hour forced drying. Still around the 1.94 D number. I > want to be above 2.1 at least. > > Have to think this over. > > Ernst > You might want to try one of the other photo black inks, maybe the one they use with the k4 set? That would be the closest to what I was using. After that, I don't really have any other ideas.
2006-07-10 by kenstrain2000
> I quoted a wrong L number the 1.94 Dmax is10.84 L. Too low a > density in my opinion.This printer is already way too slow to > set longer pauses one way or another. I expected that the 9000 > would deliver enough density, it is alright with matte papers. > Could be that the MIS PK pints that I received on Thursday are > not delivering what I want. I just checked with MISPRO PK on da vinci on a 4000. The ink limit for dmax was about the same point as you find, but density was over 2.1. I would not like to give a reading as I use an old, slightly flaky, lab densitometer that is really only any good for relative measurements - but the patch is also visually darker than the 2.07 patch on a recent calibrated step wedge. The ink is a mixture of the last of a pint bottle about 6 months old and a bottle 1 month old. The paper was purchased about 3 weeks ago - it is a 17" roll. I'm still getting to know it (but am generally happy with it for some subjects). Ken
2006-07-12 by Ernst Dinkla
Greg wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla
> <E.Dinkla@...> wrote:
>
>> That happened with the boosting in the first curve creation.
>> But the numbers I gave were of the calibration stepwedge
>> before curve creation. Measuring it a day later the better
>> Dmax went to the 55% step while it was on the 60% step after
>> half an hour forced drying. Still around the 1.94 D number. I
>> want to be above 2.1 at least.
>>
>> Have to think this over.
>>
>> Ernst
>>
>
> You might want to try one of the other photo black inks, maybe the one
> they use with the k4 set? That would be the closest to what I was
> using. After that, I don't really have any other ideas.
>
Greg, thank you, I have a 10000 cartridge filled with the
contents of two 220ml UC PK carts and will try that with color
prints on the 10000 but changing inks again on the 9000
becomes too expensive. The 9000 is having MIS inks and I'm
afraid that there's too much hue shift in the grey - black
inks with a UC black added.
I'll have to accept that even 2.0 D isn't available. The rest:
bronzing, gloss difference, is absent. Next thing is finding
an acceptable RC gloss paper that delivers the higher Dmax.
Ernst
--
--
Ernst Dinkla
www.pigment-print.com
( unvollendet )