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[Digital BW] Piezo/MIS-FS/MIS-VM: which inks can substitute each other

[Digital BW] Piezo/MIS-FS/MIS-VM: which inks can substitute each other

2002-01-16 by Paul Roark

Bernd,

You wrote:

>Switching from one inkset to another often leaves a lot of
>"unusable" ink behind. For example, I've been running out of the
>Piezo yellow-substitute on my 1160, while my black and cyan
>stays more than half full and magenta has a reasonable rest too.
>...I do not want to buy Piezo
>inks again  so must I pour out  the Piezo-rest into the sink or can
>I use it with any of the other inksets ?

>Which inks of the different sets can substitute each other...

MIS VM K = MIS FS K = (for practical purposes) Piezo K

The mid-tone inks are all different.  MIS VM grays are the warmest, Piezo
next warmest, and FS midtones the least warm -- but still medium warm.

While the mid-tone inks are different, they are compatible and the densities
of certain of the inks are the same.

MIS VM cyan density = (within 1%) MIS FS cyan density = Piezo cyan density.

MIS FS magenta-position density = Piezo magenta density.

MIS FS yellow-position density = Piezo yellow density.


I don't know what success one would have mixing inks in a CIS.  I suspect it
would work fine, but no guarantees.  Since the option is to throw out the
CIS, there is not much lost in trying it.  You might start by adding small
amounts of the new ink and mixing the inks in the bottle first.  This might
spread out the color differentials to the point you'll never see them.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Piezo/MIS-FS/MIS-VM: which inks can substitute each other

2002-01-16 by tomoc

Paul-

Are the relationships between the midtones in all three inksets 
fairly linearly different? I would sound like the VM inkset on a 
piezo driver might get one well down the road to a sepia print? With 
a little tweak???

Tom O'Connell

TomOC@...
www.thomasoconnell.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Bernd,
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> >Switching from one inkset to another often leaves a lot of
> >"unusable" ink behind. For example, I've been running out of the
> >Piezo yellow-substitute on my 1160, while my black and cyan
> >stays more than half full and magenta has a reasonable rest too.
> >...I do not want to buy Piezo
> >inks again  so must I pour out  the Piezo-rest into the sink or can
> >I use it with any of the other inksets ?
> 
> >Which inks of the different sets can substitute each other...
> 
> MIS VM K = MIS FS K = (for practical purposes) Piezo K
> 
> The mid-tone inks are all different.  MIS VM grays are the warmest, 
Piezo
> next warmest, and FS midtones the least warm -- but still medium 
warm.
> 
> While the mid-tone inks are different, they are compatible and the 
densities
> of certain of the inks are the same.
> 
> MIS VM cyan density = (within 1%) MIS FS cyan density = Piezo cyan 
density.
> 
> MIS FS magenta-position density = Piezo magenta density.
> 
> MIS FS yellow-position density = Piezo yellow density.
> 
> 
> I don't know what success one would have mixing inks in a CIS.  I 
suspect it
> would work fine, but no guarantees.  Since the option is to throw 
out the
> CIS, there is not much lost in trying it.  You might start by 
adding small
> amounts of the new ink and mixing the inks in the bottle first.  
This might
> spread out the color differentials to the point you'll never see 
them.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Piezo/MIS-FS/MIS-VM: which inks can substitute each other

2002-01-16 by Paul Roark

Tom,

You wrote:

>Are the relationships between the midtones in all three inksets
>fairly linearly different?

I'm not sure what you mean here.

> I would sound like the VM inkset on a
>piezo driver might get one well down the road to a sepia print?

The Piezo driver does not distribut the toner ink in an even or appropriate
manner.  Use only MIS FS or Piezo inks with the Piezo driver.

The MIS VM-Sepia-Neutral (I have no idea what MIS will call it) should see
daylight soon.  I expect the FS-N will also be done soon.  (I'm still
working on getting an exact match to my lightly-selenium-toned, Kodak
Polymax Fine Art silver prints -- using the X-Rite photospectrometer to do
the measurements.)

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

____________________



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Bernd,
>
> You wrote:
>
> >Switching from one inkset to another often leaves a lot of
> >"unusable" ink behind. For example, I've been running out of the
> >Piezo yellow-substitute on my 1160, while my black and cyan
> >stays more than half full and magenta has a reasonable rest too.
> >...I do not want to buy Piezo
> >inks again  so must I pour out  the Piezo-rest into the sink or can
> >I use it with any of the other inksets ?
>
> >Which inks of the different sets can substitute each other...
>
> MIS VM K = MIS FS K = (for practical purposes) Piezo K
>
> The mid-tone inks are all different.  MIS VM grays are the warmest,
Piezo
> next warmest, and FS midtones the least warm -- but still medium
warm.
>
> While the mid-tone inks are different, they are compatible and the
densities
> of certain of the inks are the same.
>
> MIS VM cyan density = (within 1%) MIS FS cyan density = Piezo cyan
density.
>
> MIS FS magenta-position density = Piezo magenta density.
>
> MIS FS yellow-position density = Piezo yellow density.
>
>
> I don't know what success one would have mixing inks in a CIS.  I
suspect it
> would work fine, but no guarantees.  Since the option is to throw
out the
> CIS, there is not much lost in trying it.  You might start by
adding small
> amounts of the new ink and mixing the inks in the bottle first.
This might
> spread out the color differentials to the point you'll never see
them.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Piezo/MIS-FS/MIS-VM: which inks can substitute each other

2002-01-16 by tomoc

Paul-

I was looking for a "warm, warmer, warmest" relationship... With the 
speed of the piezo driver... Just wishing the ball in the hole, I 
guess.

I'm looking forward to the sepia/neutral VM. I used to say I like 
cool prints... After using your set, I see that I really only mean 
neutral. While the use for sepia is only ocassional, it is far more 
likely to be used than the truly COLD <g>.

You're our hero... 

Tom O'Connell

TomOC@...
www.thomasoconnell.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Tom,
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> >Are the relationships between the midtones in all three inksets
> >fairly linearly different?
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean here.
> 
> > I would sound like the VM inkset on a
> >piezo driver might get one well down the road to a sepia print?
> 
> The Piezo driver does not distribut the toner ink in an even or 
appropriate
> manner.  Use only MIS FS or Piezo inks with the Piezo driver.
> 
> The MIS VM-Sepia-Neutral (I have no idea what MIS will call it) 
should see
> daylight soon.  I expect the FS-N will also be done soon.  (I'm 
still
> working on getting an exact match to my lightly-selenium-toned, 
Kodak
> Polymax Fine Art silver prints -- using the X-Rite 
photospectrometer to do
> the measurements.)
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> ____________________
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Bernd,
> >
> > You wrote:
> >
> > >Switching from one inkset to another often leaves a lot of
> > >"unusable" ink behind. For example, I've been running out of the
> > >Piezo yellow-substitute on my 1160, while my black and cyan
> > >stays more than half full and magenta has a reasonable rest too.
> > >...I do not want to buy Piezo
> > >inks again  so must I pour out  the Piezo-rest into the sink or 
can
> > >I use it with any of the other inksets ?
> >
> > >Which inks of the different sets can substitute each other...
> >
> > MIS VM K = MIS FS K = (for practical purposes) Piezo K
> >
> > The mid-tone inks are all different.  MIS VM grays are the 
warmest,
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Piezo
> > next warmest, and FS midtones the least warm -- but still medium
> warm.
> >
> > While the mid-tone inks are different, they are compatible and the
> densities
> > of certain of the inks are the same.
> >
> > MIS VM cyan density = (within 1%) MIS FS cyan density = Piezo cyan
> density.
> >
> > MIS FS magenta-position density = Piezo magenta density.
> >
> > MIS FS yellow-position density = Piezo yellow density.
> >
> >
> > I don't know what success one would have mixing inks in a CIS.  I
> suspect it
> > would work fine, but no guarantees.  Since the option is to throw
> out the
> > CIS, there is not much lost in trying it.  You might start by
> adding small
> > amounts of the new ink and mixing the inks in the bottle first.
> This might
> > spread out the color differentials to the point you'll never see
> them.
> >
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com

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