Digital BW, The Print

Hello,

I have been reading this group for about a year now and have learned 
so much, thank you all!

My question is prompted by my need for a larger format printer. I 
have been using an Epson C86 for two years, with the MIS EZW 
Ultratone ink cartridges, not the CFS.

I am strongly leaning toward a refurbished 1280 along with the $100 
reabate that expires 07/01.

Would this be a wise choice for a tight budget,printing color and/or 
B&W using MIS CFS systems?

Also, is MIS the best ink choice or should I look at the Lyson and 
Media St. CFS systems also?

Any insight and direction is greatly appreciated.

Regards,
John

John,

You will get a variety of replies here.  I have been using a 1280 with
MS UT2 inks for several years and am very pleased with the results.  I
use Paul Roark's curves and profiles (where available) and QTR.  I
print primarily on matte paper using the Eboni black ink.

While I am reluctant to say so for fear of disturbing the powers that
be, clogs have not been a serious problem.  Their frequency seems to
be cartridge specific and at worst, clearing the printer requires four
or five cleaning cycles.  I do not print every day or even every week
and have come back after a few weeks without a major problem.  

While I will trade up to a 2400 when the 1280 goes, for now I am a
happy customer. The capabilities of the printer and inks far exceed my
own.

Steve


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Kurtz"
<designtonica@...> wrote:

>
> Hello,
> 
> I have been reading this group for about a year now and have learned 
> so much, thank you all!
> 
> My question is prompted by my need for a larger format printer. I 
> have been using an Epson C86 for two years, with the MIS EZW 
> Ultratone ink cartridges, not the CFS.
> 
> I am strongly leaning toward a refurbished 1280 along with the $100 
> reabate that expires 07/01.
> 
> Would this be a wise choice for a tight budget,printing color and/or 
> B&W using MIS CFS systems?
> 
> Also, is MIS the best ink choice or should I look at the Lyson and 
> Media St. CFS systems also?
> 
> Any insight and direction is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Regards,
> John
>

Well, for one thing it is SLOW.. much slower than the 2400. Another is
real estate and cost for another printer if you need to print color as
well. 

The UT2 ink's good/expensive and the older printer clogs more than the
new ones. 

Go for a 2400 at least if you need to print both B/W and color.

Michael

> Would this be a wise choice for a tight budget,printing color and/or 
> B&W using MIS CFS systems?
> 
> Also, is MIS the best ink choice or should I look at the Lyson and 
> Media St. CFS systems also?

For a tight budget ($225) the 1280 can't be beat. I'm sold on MIS
inks, both b&w and color. But I would suggest the spongeless carts
instead of a CFS. Especially if you want to print both b&w and color
on the same printer. 

I used 1280's for years, wore one out, took the other out of service
recently and replaced it with a 2400. My prints look the same, just
lower maintenance with the 2400. 

Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Kurtz"
<designtonica@...> wrote:

>
> Hello,
> 
> I have been reading this group for about a year now and have learned 
> so much, thank you all!
> 
> My question is prompted by my need for a larger format printer. I 
> have been using an Epson C86 for two years, with the MIS EZW 
> Ultratone ink cartridges, not the CFS.
> 
> I am strongly leaning toward a refurbished 1280 along with the $100 
> reabate that expires 07/01.
> 
> Would this be a wise choice for a tight budget,printing color and/or 
> B&W using MIS CFS systems?
> 
> Also, is MIS the best ink choice or should I look at the Lyson and 
> Media St. CFS systems also?
> 
> Any insight and direction is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Regards,
> John
>

I got my 1280 on eBay in great condition for $150.  I'm using the UT2 
inkset, but printing almost exclusively BO with Eboni and Moab Kayenta 
(a terrific combo).  The problem with pigment clogging is well 
documented but overblown.  With the MIS inks installed I have had to do 
2 or 3 head cleanings in succession on occasion (not every time) to get 
a perfect nozzle check, but that is something you just have to learn to 
live with.  If you have the resources a 2400 is without a doubt the way 
to go, but for $150 I am so far a very satisfied user.

Cheers,

Rem

Thank you for all your input.

I will be purchasing a refurbished 1280 direct from Epson today. Since
I will charge it to a credit card that automaticly doubles the
warranty, I will nbow be covered for two year; and with the $100
rebate, it sounds like the printer is a steal at $199.00.

If I am printing 10 13x19 images a week, should I get a CFS or just go
with carridges?

Regards,
John

John, I just returned the CFS and bought the refillables, mostly because you have to run the CFS pretty frequently and it is difficult to change from glossy to matte.

Hope this helps

Mick

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Johnny Kurtz 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:23 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Is the 1280 still a viable solution?


  Thank you for all your input.

  I will be purchasing a refurbished 1280 direct from Epson today. Since
  I will charge it to a credit card that automaticly doubles the
  warranty, I will nbow be covered for two year; and with the $100
  rebate, it sounds like the printer is a steal at $199.00.

  If I am printing 10 13x19 images a week, should I get a CFS or just go
  with carridges?

  Regards,
  John



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mick,

It does help, thank you. I think in the beginning I will go the 
cartridge route also.

Cheers,
John

I just threw away a complete MIS 1280 CFS and parts to build another.
I hadn't used them for quite a while and though I probably would never
use them again. The spongeless refillable carts turned out the be the
way to go for my usage. 

Bob Michaels 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Kurtz"
<designtonica@...> wrote:

>
> Thank you for all your input.
> 
> I will be purchasing a refurbished 1280 direct from Epson today. Since
> I will charge it to a credit card that automaticly doubles the
> warranty, I will nbow be covered for two year; and with the $100
> rebate, it sounds like the printer is a steal at $199.00.
> 
> If I am printing 10 13x19 images a week, should I get a CFS or just go
> with carridges?
> 
> Regards,
> John
>

"DITTO" for me..

I have FOUR CFS/CIS systems dormant in my basement..2 were used for Epson
1160's and 2 for Epson 1280's..I's been spongeless carts ONLY for over a
year now..NOT TOTALLY without problems, but a MUCH better solution IMHO for
a guy using one for MIS UT-2 inks and Lyson FOTONICS in the other..

My "CLOG-RATE" has gone down by at least 75%!!..

Eddie Wiseman

Eddie Wiseman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Michaels" <bob@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 6:25 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Is the 1280 still a viable solution?


I just threw away a complete MIS 1280 CFS and parts to build another.
I hadn't used them for quite a while and though I probably would never
use them again. The spongeless refillable carts turned out the be the
way to go for my usage.

Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Johnny Kurtz"
<designtonica@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for all your input.
>
> I will be purchasing a refurbished 1280 direct from Epson today. Since
> I will charge it to a credit card that automaticly doubles the
> warranty, I will nbow be covered for two year; and with the $100
> rebate, it sounds like the printer is a steal at $199.00.
>
> If I am printing 10 13x19 images a week, should I get a CFS or just go
> with carridges?
>
> Regards,
> John
>








Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

Spongeless cartridges it will be! Do most of you use the MIS inks in 
their cartridges, or have you run the Lyson's?

Regards,
John

John.....

      I'm using the MIS UT-2 variable B&W pigment inks in one 1280, using
either paul Roark's curves, or Harrington's QTR....In my "other" 1280, I'm
using Lyson FOTONIC color dye inks because the color "POPS OFF" the page,
and according to Lyson, when used with their "ARCHIVAL" media, will last a
very long time, although probably no where near as long as their Pigment
based inks ( or other brands of pigment inks for that matter)....
   Both my B&W's and Color pix are ALL sprayed with Premiere Art Shield for
protection and for evening out any gloss differential there may be on the
print surface..BTW, the FOTONIC inks are VERY succeptable to moisture damage
if not sprayed as well..They MUST be protected prior to any handling..

Eddie Wiseman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Johnny Kurtz" <designtonica@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 11:11 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Is the 1280 still a viable solution?


Spongeless cartridges it will be! Do most of you use the MIS inks in
their cartridges, or have you run the Lyson's?

Regards,
John







Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

Hey gang I thought That I would post a new review of all three papers .

 

The Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl, Crane Museo Silver Rag & Innova F Type Gloss

 

HYPERLINK
"http://www.booksmartstudio.com/services.php?section=8&SID=33"http://www.boo
ksmartstudio.com/services.php?section=8&SID=33

 

 

Eric is associated with my company and is a professor at RIT.

 

Enjoy the weekend

 

Jim Doyle

 

J. Doyle Enterprises LLC

114 Old Orchard Rd

Cherry Hill NJ 08003

856-424-8660

HYPERLINK "http://www.shadesofpaper.com"www.shadesofpaper.com

 


--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/373 - Release Date: 6/22/2006



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/373 - Release Date: 6/22/2006
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good article, but my surface description results would be different. Here, the Crane is 
smoother than the Innova, I'd conclude then that these surfaces are evovling by the batch.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Doyle" <jdoyle1713@...> 
wrote:

>
>  
> 
> Hey gang I thought That I would post a new review of all three papers .
> 
>  
> 
> The Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl, Crane Museo Silver Rag & Innova F Type Gloss
> 
>  
> 
> HYPERLINK
> "http://www.booksmartstudio.com/services.php?section=8&SID=33"http://www.boo
> ksmartstudio.com/services.php?section=8&SID=33
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Eric is associated with my company and is a professor at RIT.
> 
>  
> 
> Enjoy the weekend
> 
>  
> 
> Jim Doyle
> 
>  
> 
> J. Doyle Enterprises LLC
> 
> 114 Old Orchard Rd
> 
> Cherry Hill NJ 08003
> 
> 856-424-8660
> 
> HYPERLINK "http://www.shadesofpaper.com"www.shadesofpaper.com
>

Another good reason NOT to be on the cutting edge of some changes in the
paper industry; at least no on the consumer side that sells printed matter.
I prefer to use somewhat establish products so that my customer don't bare
the brunt of "development" by having inconsistent images. I have only seen a
few sheets of the Crane. I plan on staying with my few well working profiled
papers for the time being. 

 

Eric 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tyler
Boley
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 11:30 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Review Of New papers

 

Good article, but my surface description results would be different. Here,
the Crane is 
smoother than the Innova, I'd conclude then that these surfaces are evovling
by the batch.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Doyle" <jdoyle1713@...> 
wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Hey gang I thought That I would post a new review of all three papers .
> 
> 
> 
> The Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl, Crane Museo Silver Rag & Innova F Type
Gloss
> 
> 
> 
> HYPERLINK
> "http://www.booksmar
<http://www.booksmartstudio.com/services.php?section=8&SID=33>
tstudio.com/services.php?section=8&SID=33"http://www.boo
> ksmartstudio.com/services.php?section=8&SID=33
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric is associated with my company and is a professor at RIT.
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy the weekend
> 
> 
> 
> Jim Doyle
> 
> 
> 
> J. Doyle Enterprises LLC
> 
> 114 Old Orchard Rd
> 
> Cherry Hill NJ 08003
> 
> 856-424-8660
> 
> HYPERLINK "http://www.shadesof <http://www.shadesofpaper.com>
paper.com"www.shadesofpaper.com
> 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote:
>
> Good article, but ... I'd conclude then that these surfaces are evovling by the batch.

> Tyler
> 
Tyler is right on.  I wrote to Innova about variations in surface reflectance between 8.5x11 
x 17x22 sizes with same batch date, & got this reply: 

        "The fiber papers used to produce our F-type have a surface
tolerance that varies slightly from batch to batch. Unlike resin
coated(RC) papers there is no 'plastic" coating to provide an
ultrasmoothcoating base for the inkjet receptive layer.

        "We have tightened the tolerances to make up for the issues you
have raised. Current and subsequent production is consistently
smooth as the 8.5x11" materials you received."

So the surface is indeed "evolving by the batch," & that's a reason for optimism.  

On the other hand, several fine-art photographers took a look at sample prints on Innova 
F-Type (both BW & color, & both K3 & regular Ultrachrome inks) at a recent gathering of 
the Bay Area Photographers Collective.  We weren't exactly overwhelmed.  While everyone 
appreciated the richer blacks, nobody preferred the surface texture over their current 
matte or luster paper choices.

Kirk

Kirk:
I just spent today printing with my first batch of Innova F-type (black 
label) on my Epson R2400 with K3 inks(PK.)After creating some I1 
profiles I compared prints to silver rag I had made. The gloss 
differential is very difficult to see on the Innova but it's obvious 
(but not bad) on the silver rag. The silver rag seems to be a heavier 
paper thickness and a few times would not load into the printer without 
some hand help. Image quality is outstanding on both papers but I 
prefer the Innova surface appearance. I didn't measure Dmax but both 
held a very rich black tone. I work in a temp/humidity controlled room 
but the Silver rag prints all had a slight but stiff curl toward the 
coating side. These were earlier production sheets and perhaps that has 
changed. The sheets of 8.5x11 Innova were quite flat and not so stiff. 
I did notice some edge "chaff" (very thin paper shreds)coming off one 
edge of some of the Innova sheets that I had to remove by hand lest it 
gunk up my printer. I printed 12 sheets and three had shreds to varying 
degree. I noticed it on just one(the same)long edge. Maybe a paper 
trimming issue? Anyway I was very pleased with the Innova prints(color 
and B&W). A couple of light coats of the Premier Art Shield spray made 
both paper surfaces very even and attractive. But here's the kicker, I 
printed the same images with my regular luster paper, Ilford Smooth 
Pearl, and the Ilford looked better than both of the "fine art" papers. 
The ink lay down was just smoother and the surface of the Pearl was 
very consistant sheet to sheet with a similar crisp resolution and deep 
black as the other papers. No gloss difference at all. Surface seems 
more durable yet its a thinner stock. Also after the fine art papers 
were sprayed, the surfaces didn't look much different from the pearl. I 
didn't want to compare the three to Matte papers since that's a unique 
look all it's own. No real conclusions just the results of todays print 
making.
Lou Meluso 
> 
> On the other hand, several fine-art photographers took a look at 
sample prints on Innova 
> F-Type (both BW & color, & both K3 & regular Ultrachrome inks) at a 
recent gathering of 
> the Bay Area Photographers Collective.  We weren't exactly 
overwhelmed.  While everyone 
> appreciated the richer blacks, nobody preferred the surface texture 
over their current 

> matte or luster paper choices.
> 
> Kirk
>