Digital BW, The Print

Just trying to sort out the differences between these two ink sets. . . . 

Am I correct in saying that the primary difference between UT-3D and UT7 is
the tonality (i.e. "colour") of the cool toners and having a Lab a*
(selenium) toner instead of a Sepia toner in the Y position?

Would it work to put the Lab a* toner into the Y position in a UT7 set, and
then use QTR to create a selenium curve?

Last question. . .   Is it difficult to create split tones using QTR and
either inkset? I assume one would first create two curves, say warm and
neutral, to establish the appropriate settings for each curve. These would
then be "combined" into one master curve (the settings that is) with split
toning done by creating/importing appropriate Photoshop curves for the gray
and toners within that curve?

Thanks,

Terry.

Terry,

>Just trying to sort out the differences between these two ink sets. . . . 

>Am I correct in saying that the primary difference between UT-3D and UT7 is
>the tonality (i.e. "colour") of the cool toners and having a Lab a*
>(selenium) toner instead of a Sepia toner in the Y position?

Yes.

>Would it work to put the Lab a* toner into the Y position in a UT7 set,
> and then use QTR to create a selenium curve?

You could, but the UT7 cool toner already has enough magenta (actually R800
Blue) in it.  In fact, being able to deal with what is sometimes an excess
of magenta is one of the points of the 3D inkset.  Between paper and inkset
batch differences, this can become a problem.

> Is it difficult to create split tones using QTR and either inkset? ...

I'm not a QTR expert.  But, I think it depends of whether you want to split
the tones between highlights and shadows, or between 2 different areas in
the print.  It's easy to have highlights be cooler or warmer.  I think
you'll have trouble getting QTR to split tones by area, however.  That is
one advantage of the Epson driver -- RGB curves approach.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

So, UT--3D is as much about refining UT-7 as it is about broadening tonal
possibilities.

I notice the QTR curves for UT-7 do not use LK, either the warm or cool
ones. Do you know why?

There have been some issues with ink consistency, I believe related to LK.
Did this impact both UT7 and UT-3D? Has it been corrected yet?

Terry.

>Paul Roark wrote:
>
> >Would it work to put the Lab a* toner into the Y position in 
> a UT7 set,
> > and then use QTR to create a selenium curve?
> 
> You could, but the UT7 cool toner already has enough magenta 
> (actually R800
> Blue) in it.  In fact, being able to deal with what is 
> sometimes an excess
> of magenta is one of the points of the 3D inkset.  Between 
> paper and inkset
> batch differences, this can become a problem.

>So, UT--3D is as much about refining UT-7 as it is about broadening 
> tonal possibilities.

Yes, it actually narrowed the range by excluding sepia, but it gives better
control within the carbon to cool range.

>I notice the QTR curves for UT-7 do not use LK, either the 
> warm or cool ones. Do you know why?

I can't answer for Roy, but LK is not needed for the UT7 approach.  So, I
assume it was reserved for other inks or Glop.

>There have been some issues with ink consistency, I believe 
> related to LK.  Did this impact both UT7 and UT-3D?

It impacted almost everything.  LK is a basic input, and the supplier was
apparently shipping an LK that was too light.

> Has it been corrected yet?

The last sample of LK I received from MIS was fine. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

> Paul Roark wrote:
> 
> >I notice the QTR curves for UT-7 do not use LK, either the 
> > warm or cool ones. Do you know why?
> 
> I can't answer for Roy, but LK is not needed for the UT7 
> approach.  So, I
> assume it was reserved for other inks or Glop.

Could I anticipate that the same would be true for UT-3D? In other words,
could I take a UT7 curve, continue leaving out LK, make the appropriate
tonal adjustments and the re-linearize? For reference, the UT7 Enh Matte
warm curve uses K, C and LC and the cool curve uses K, M and LM. 

Conversly, would QTR curves for both UT7 and UT-3D potentially benefit from
including LK? I guess I'm unclear as to where the density of LK sits,
relative to C and LC.

Which inks are combined to handle K on glossy media, and how? I understand
that PK is not required.

I think I'm out of, or almost out of questions.  ;-)

Thank you,

Terry.

The UT-3D inkset does not need the LK either.  So, you could save that spot
for whatever you'd like.

 

The 3D-M is the main ink for black generation.  Use mostly it and some of
the C (dark carbon) to get the tone where you want it.

 

You're on your own for the curves, however.  I set the C and M channels
first and then move the lighter Y (a axis) ink to where I want it.

 

Hope it works for you.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry
Ritz
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 12:53 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] UT-3D vs UT7

 

> Paul Roark wrote:
> 
> >I notice the QTR curves for UT-7 do not use LK, either the 
> > warm or cool ones. Do you know why?
> 
> I can't answer for Roy, but LK is not needed for the UT7 
> approach. So, I
> assume it was reserved for other inks or Glop.

Could I anticipate that the same would be true for UT-3D? In other words,
could I take a UT7 curve, continue leaving out LK, make the appropriate
tonal adjustments and the re-linearize? For reference, the UT7 Enh Matte
warm curve uses K, C and LC and the cool curve uses K, M and LM. 

Conversly, would QTR curves for both UT7 and UT-3D potentially benefit from
including LK? I guess I'm unclear as to where the density of LK sits,
relative to C and LC.

Which inks are combined to handle K on glossy media, and how? I understand
that PK is not required.

I think I'm out of, or almost out of questions. ;-)

Thank you,

Terry.

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Please accept my thanks Paul, for the time you've taken to answer all my
questions.

Terry.

> Paul Roark wrote:
>
> The UT-3D inkset does not need the LK either.  So, you could 
> save that spot
> for whatever you'd like.
> 
>  
> 
> The 3D-M is the main ink for black generation.  Use mostly it 
> and some of
> the C (dark carbon) to get the tone where you want it.
> 
>  
> 
> You're on your own for the curves, however.  I set the C and 
> M channels
> first and then move the lighter Y (a axis) ink to where I want it.
> 
>  
> 
> Hope it works for you.