Digital BW, The Print

Is anyone aware of a comparison of available F-type papers?  I've been
doing my own, but not in a methodical way.  Here are the papers I'm
interested in, and their price per sheet of 8.5x11" (not an exhaustive
search; most prices from itsupplies.com and shadesofpaper.com)

Moab Colorado (Satine & Gloss): $1.28
Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss: $1.78
Hahnemuhle Baryta (not out): $1.35
Harman FB AL Gloss: $1.60
Epson Exhibition Fiber (not out): $2.40
Crane Silver Rag: $2.08

I didn't include Fine Art Pearl and Innova F-Type Gloss because I
tried them and don't like them.  All others I've tried, except of
course Exhibition Fiber and Hahnemuhle Baryta.

I'd say my favorites so far are Harman FB AL Gloss, Crane Silver Rag,
and Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss. The detail of the Harman paper is
amazing, but it is almost too glossy for my taste.  I prefer the
texture of the Silver Rag and USG, though they're not quite as crisp
as the Harman. 

However, all three of them are a bit too expensive for me to use on a
regular basis.  That's why I'm really looking forward to the
Hahnemuhle paper.  I love their matte papers, and their new Baryta is
much more affordable than the alternatives.

Epson Exhibition Fiber is nearly twice the cost of the Hahnemuhle!  I
have a hard time believing it will be twice as good.

I'd love to hear your impressions of these papers.

ILFORD Gold Fibre Silk Baryta Paper, seems to be the least expensive  
for this class paper at $0.78 per letter size sheet (Atlex price).   
Any user reports for this paper?

Carl

On Nov 24, 2007, at 11:19 AM, chriskjezp wrote:

> Is anyone aware of a comparison of available F-type papers?  I've been
> doing my own, but not in a methodical way.  Here are the papers I'm
> interested in, and their price per sheet of 8.5x11" (not an exhaustive
> search; most prices from itsupplies.com and shadesofpaper.com)
>
> Moab Colorado (Satine & Gloss): $1.28
> Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss: $1.78
> Hahnemuhle Baryta (not out): $1.35
> Harman FB AL Gloss: $1.60
> Epson Exhibition Fiber (not out): $2.40
> Crane Silver Rag: $2.08
>
> I didn't include Fine Art Pearl and Innova F-Type Gloss because I
> tried them and don't like them.  All others I've tried, except of
> course Exhibition Fiber and Hahnemuhle Baryta.
>
> I'd say my favorites so far are Harman FB AL Gloss, Crane Silver Rag,
> and Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss. The detail of the Harman paper is
> amazing, but it is almost too glossy for my taste.  I prefer the
> texture of the Silver Rag and USG, though they're not quite as crisp
> as the Harman.
>
> However, all three of them are a bit too expensive for me to use on a
> regular basis.  That's why I'm really looking forward to the
> Hahnemuhle paper.  I love their matte papers, and their new Baryta is
> much more affordable than the alternatives.
>
> Epson Exhibition Fiber is nearly twice the cost of the Hahnemuhle!  I
> have a hard time believing it will be twice as good.
>
> I'd love to hear your impressions of these papers.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Smells like fixer.
Mark

On Nov 24, 2007, at 12:12 PM, Carl Schofield wrote:

> ILFORD Gold Fibre Silk Baryta Paper, seems to be the least expensive
> for this class paper at $0.78 per letter size sheet (Atlex price).
> Any user reports for this paper?
>
> Carl
>
> On Nov 24, 2007, at 11:19 AM, chriskjezp wrote:
>
>> Is anyone aware of a comparison of available F-type papers?  I've  
>> been
>> doing my own, but not in a methodical way.  Here are the papers I'm
>> interested in, and their price per sheet of 8.5x11" (not an  
>> exhaustive
>> search; most prices from itsupplies.com and shadesofpaper.com)
>>
>> Moab Colorado (Satine & Gloss): $1.28
>> Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss: $1.78
>> Hahnemuhle Baryta (not out): $1.35
>> Harman FB AL Gloss: $1.60
>> Epson Exhibition Fiber (not out): $2.40
>> Crane Silver Rag: $2.08
>>
>> I didn't include Fine Art Pearl and Innova F-Type Gloss because I
>> tried them and don't like them.  All others I've tried, except of
>> course Exhibition Fiber and Hahnemuhle Baryta.
>>
>> I'd say my favorites so far are Harman FB AL Gloss, Crane Silver Rag,
>> and Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss. The detail of the Harman paper is
>> amazing, but it is almost too glossy for my taste.  I prefer the
>> texture of the Silver Rag and USG, though they're not quite as crisp
>> as the Harman.
>>
>> However, all three of them are a bit too expensive for me to use on a
>> regular basis.  That's why I'm really looking forward to the
>> Hahnemuhle paper.  I love their matte papers, and their new Baryta is
>> much more affordable than the alternatives.
>>
>> Epson Exhibition Fiber is nearly twice the cost of the Hahnemuhle!  I
>> have a hard time believing it will be twice as good.
>>
>> I'd love to hear your impressions of these papers.
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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In a message dated 11/24/2007 12:12:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
list@... writes:

ILFORD  Gold Fibre Silk Baryta Paper, seems to be the least expensive  
for  this class paper at $0.78 per letter size sheet (Atlex price).    
Any user reports for this paper?

Carl



The Ilford Gold Fibre Silk is a rally nice paper with a somewhat semi-matte  
finish. I say somewhat, because when I hold it next to a Silver Rag print of 
the  same color image, there is so little difference. Silver Rag has been my 
choice  for both B/W and color, but Ilford has hit a long ball with this one. 
The Harman FB A1 is a bit too slick for my taste, resembling an RC paper  
finish. The Harman Matt FB B/W sample (printed on a CanonI9950) is a very  nice 
finish paper that I have not printed on with my Epsons. Innova  Semi-Matte is 
about equal to the Ilford in finish, IMO no better, both  yielding a rich color 
print. I built profiles with Eye One Match and printed on  a 4800 PK.
 
Richard Massie



**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the tip on the Ilford paper.  I did try the Harman Matt and
got terrible results.  It looked so bad I thought I must be printing
on the wrong side of the paper, but I tried the other side and it was
no better.  

I was using MK with this paper.  That is correct, isn't it?

In a message dated 11/24/2007 2:20:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
chriskresser@... writes:

I was  using MK with this paper.  That is correct, isn't  it?



Yes, MK is the right inkset..... there might be a very good reason why  they 
went with the Canon Chroma plus inks. I use NK 7 inks for my B/W matte, K3  
for B/W glossy, w and w/o ImagePrint, depending on mileage.
 
Richard Massie



**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the report Richard.  I have some on order and look forward  
to trying it.

Carl

On Nov 24, 2007, at 2:01 PM, CorrPro96@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 11/24/2007 12:12:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> list@... writes:
>
> ILFORD  Gold Fibre Silk Baryta Paper, seems to be the least expensive
> for  this class paper at $0.78 per letter size sheet (Atlex price).
> Any user reports for this paper?
>
> Carl
>
>
>
> The Ilford Gold Fibre Silk is a rally nice paper with a somewhat  
> semi-matte
> finish. I say somewhat, because when I hold it next to a Silver Rag  
> print of
> the  same color image, there is so little difference. Silver Rag  
> has been my
> choice  for both B/W and color, but Ilford has hit a long ball with  
> this one.
> The Harman FB A1 is a bit too slick for my taste, resembling an RC  
> paper
> finish. The Harman Matt FB B/W sample (printed on a CanonI9950) is  
> a very  nice
> finish paper that I have not printed on with my Epsons. Innova   
> Semi-Matte is
> about equal to the Ilford in finish, IMO no better, both  yielding  
> a rich color
> print. I built profiles with Eye One Match and printed on  a 4800 PK.
>
> Richard Massie
>

In a message dated 11/24/2007 11:20:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
chriskresser@... writes:

Epson  Exhibition Fiber is nearly twice the cost of the Hahnemuhle!  I
have a  hard time believing it will be twice as good.



It isn't. 
By the time I had it profiled, I ran out of the meager samples they gave  out 
at the Photo Expo. I went to them the next day, and they said they were in  
short supply and could not let me have a 2nd package of samples.
I printed a color image, and the surface is very much like a Silver gelatin  
print from an Ilford paper..... a little more sheen. I was not impressed and 
the  price is ridiculous IMHO.
 
Richard Massie



**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cannot comment on a comparison between these papers but have just got 
hold of a pack of Harman FB AL Gloss and done some comparisons with 
this and an airdried darkroom print on fibre gloss. 

Used a friend's 3800 to print the Harman driven by Epson's ABW and 
using 15 yellow and 3 red to match the darkroom print's toning. 
Printed image is a scan of a 6x6 BW neg. I must say that the Harmon 
print held up very well. A bit more contrast than the darkroom print 
but this could probably be worked out with some more time in PS. 
Digital print sharper and had depth equal to the darkroom print and 
no discernible bronzing.

I by no means qualify as an expert printer but I am discerning and 
know what I like. I would have said prior to this exercise that 
inkjet printing had not yet knocked air dryed fibre off its perch. 
Now I would say that when using Harmans's gloss paper, the digital 
equivalent to air dried fibre is as good if not better. 

regards

Alistair



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "chriskjezp" 
<chriskresser@...> wrote:
>
> Is anyone aware of a comparison of available F-type papers?  I've 
been
> doing my own, but not in a methodical way.  Here are the papers I'm
> interested in, and their price per sheet of 8.5x11" (not an 
exhaustive

> search; most prices from itsupplies.com and shadesofpaper.com)
> 
> Moab Colorado (Satine & Gloss): $1.28
> Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss: $1.78
> Hahnemuhle Baryta (not out): $1.35
> Harman FB AL Gloss: $1.60
> Epson Exhibition Fiber (not out): $2.40
> Crane Silver Rag: $2.08
> 

> 
> I'd love to hear your impressions of these papers.
>

Try scratching it

From: alistair_owens <owens@...>
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 04:34:03 +0000
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: F-Type paper comparison

 
 
 


Cannot comment on a comparison between these papers but have just got
hold of a pack of Harman FB AL Gloss and done some comparisons with
this and an airdried darkroom print on fibre gloss.

Used a friend's 3800 to print the Harman driven by Epson's ABW and
using 15 yellow and 3 red to match the darkroom print's toning.
Printed image is a scan of a 6x6 BW neg. I must say that the Harmon
print held up very well. A bit more contrast than the darkroom print
but this could probably be worked out with some more time in PS.
Digital print sharper and had depth equal to the darkroom print and
no discernible bronzing.

I by no means qualify as an expert printer but I am discerning and
know what I like. I would have said prior to this exercise that
inkjet printing had not yet knocked air dryed fibre off its perch.
Now I would say that when using Harmans's gloss paper, the digital
equivalent to air dried fibre is as good if not better.

regards

Alistair

-


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Of these I've tried the Harman Gloss FB Al, Epson Exhibition Fiber,
and Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss. I've also seen Silver Rag (but haven't
tested it myself). My testing is done on my Epson 3800 using the K3
inks, with my own custom profiles for the ABW driver (as well as
separate profiles for RGB color, of course).

I hope to try the Hahnemuehle soon.

EEF is very similar to Innova USG, but with a thicker base. Despite
the higher (initial) price of EEF, I'd go with EEF since every single
sheet of every Innova paper I've ever tried (and I've tried about all
of them) has had something wrong with it (ding, scuff, dent, blemish,
you name it). i.e., quality control problems

My EEF and HG brief comparison report is here:

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/index.html

Just FYI.

Eric