Digital BW, The Print

In a message dated 02/03/2002 8:31:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
photo734@... writes:


> I have a friend who recdently spent over 
> $1000 for the Piezo setup, not counting the printer, and has had 
> nothing but trouble from the get go! 

Damm, what set up is that?
Steve M.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Bruce,

Without a printer profile, you will probably not ever get satisfactory
prints from a color inkset. With a profile, I get excellent black and
white photos from my MIS and Generations color inks. But the overall
quality for a black and white prints seems to be better with Quad or Hex
inks. I love the MIS hextone inks and Paul's curves on several papers.
His curves aren't nearly as fussy as to what paper you use. If your
print is perfect on Epson Archival matte for instance, and you want to
print the same print on Eclipse Satine, Just use a gamma correction in a
levels adjustment curve from 100 to 85. Label that curve and every time
you use eclipse paper, just apply that adjustment. For Legion Photo
matte paper, I move the gamma slider to 90. This system works great for
me. Each paper can have its' own curve. Some papers will print the same
as others, you'll have to make tests. 

Before you do a lot, I'd sample a lot of different papers and choose the
3 or 4 you like best and then for about 6 months, just use them and get
to know them. My favorites are Epson Archival Matte, Epson Watercolor,
Photo Matte, and Eclipse. For large prints I like Royal Riviera, but as
it is heavily textured, it works best on the larger sizes. It prints
very sharp for a heavily textured paper.

Jerry

photo734 wrote:

> 
> Jerry,
> Thanks for the heads up. I had been considering Piezo for some time.
> I'm doing duotones on my 1270 with standard Epson inks. MIS VS sounds
> like the good way to go.  I have a friend who recdently spent over
> $1000 for the Piezo setup, not counting the printer, and has had
> nothing but trouble from the get go!  Plus, demanding $80 for a 4 oz.
> bottle of ink is gouging and robbing a captive group.
> 
> BTW, Anyone using Epson Color Life Paper for B&W? I like the looks of
> the paper, and it workks great for color, but I can't seem to get a
> decent B&W print without a strong mostly magenta color cast, Even
> with Epson new downloadable profile for that paper.
> 
> Bruce McElhaney (ex-lurker)
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > I was taken off the black and white piezo list for mentioning MIS VM
> > inks once too often. I started quad printing with the piezo system.
> Paid
> > hundreds of dollars for it. I was one of the first to use it. There
> were
> > terrible bugs in the first version of the software that resulted in
> my
> > wasting hundreds of dollars in ink and paper before the problems
> (the
> > dreaded screen pattern all over the prints, and the horizontal
> > stripes... no image, just stripes.) and the banding, the prints
> weren't
> > square, etc. It was awful.
> >
> > When you're first starting out there will be all kinds of problems,
> I
> > know that, but I was wasting way too much ink and paper to be a
> happy
> > camper. And those brown tones...
> > Never liked them. So when Paul Roark and MIS came out with curves
> and
> > coldtone inks I jumped to that system and never looked back. I would
> > never pay $80 for a 4 ounce bottle of ink again. You can get every
> bit
> > as high quality with Paul's curves and VM inks as you can with the
> Piezo system.
> >
> > Jerry
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Thanks, Jerry,

I'm using EZ color 2.0 The profiles are pretty good in color, but I 
can see some color casts in my B&W prints. So guess I do need a 
quadtone setup and dedicate my 1270 to B&W printing. I'll probably 
need to get a new 1280 for color work. Actually I'm in a similar 
situation as Paul B, the old time newbee guy. I do fine art portraits 
and have been doing convential darkroon work for years. I'm using a 
new Polaroid 120 scanner and eventually want to do larger size 
prints, up to 24" width. So I'm eyeing something in the Epson 7000 
range.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> Without a printer profile, you will probably not ever get 
satisfactory
> prints from a color inkset. With a profile, I get excellent black 
and
> white photos from my MIS and Generations color inks. But the overall
> quality for a black and white prints seems to be better with Quad 
or Hex
> inks. I love the MIS hextone inks and Paul's curves on several 
papers.
> His curves aren't nearly as fussy as to what paper you use. If your
> print is perfect on Epson Archival matte for instance, and you want 
to
> print the same print on Eclipse Satine, Just use a gamma correction 
in a
> levels adjustment curve from 100 to 85. Label that curve and every 
time
> you use eclipse paper, just apply that adjustment. For Legion Photo
> matte paper, I move the gamma slider to 90. This system works great 
for
> me. Each paper can have its' own curve. Some papers will print the 
same
> as others, you'll have to make tests. 
> 
> Before you do a lot, I'd sample a lot of different papers and 
choose the
> 3 or 4 you like best and then for about 6 months, just use them and 
get
> to know them. My favorites are Epson Archival Matte, Epson 
Watercolor,
> Photo Matte, and Eclipse. For large prints I like Royal Riviera, 
but as
> it is heavily textured, it works best on the larger sizes. It prints
> very sharp for a heavily textured paper.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> photo734 wrote:
> > 
> > Jerry,
> > Thanks for the heads up. I had been considering Piezo for some 
time.
> > I'm doing duotones on my 1270 with standard Epson inks. MIS VS 
sounds
> > like the good way to go.  I have a friend who recdently spent over
> > $1000 for the Piezo setup, not counting the printer, and has had
> > nothing but trouble from the get go!  Plus, demanding $80 for a 4 
oz.
> > bottle of ink is gouging and robbing a captive group.
> > 
> > BTW, Anyone using Epson Color Life Paper for B&W? I like the 
looks of
> > the paper, and it workks great for color, but I can't seem to get 
a
> > decent B&W print without a strong mostly magenta color cast, Even
> > with Epson new downloadable profile for that paper.
> > 
> > Bruce McElhaney (ex-lurker)
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > I was taken off the black and white piezo list for mentioning 
MIS VM
> > > inks once too often. I started quad printing with the piezo 
system.
> > Paid
> > > hundreds of dollars for it. I was one of the first to use it. 
There
> > were
> > > terrible bugs in the first version of the software that 
resulted in
> > my
> > > wasting hundreds of dollars in ink and paper before the problems
> > (the
> > > dreaded screen pattern all over the prints, and the horizontal
> > > stripes... no image, just stripes.) and the banding, the prints
> > weren't
> > > square, etc. It was awful.
> > >
> > > When you're first starting out there will be all kinds of 
problems,
> > I
> > > know that, but I was wasting way too much ink and paper to be a
> > happy
> > > camper. And those brown tones...
> > > Never liked them. So when Paul Roark and MIS came out with 
curves
> > and
> > > coldtone inks I jumped to that system and never looked back. I 
would
> > > never pay $80 for a 4 ounce bottle of ink again. You can get 
every
> > bit
> > > as high quality with Paul's curves and VM inks as you can with 
the
> > Piezo system.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page 
is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or "flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/