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Thread
2008-02-06 by miltreeder
I'm printing B&W images with the epson driver. A friend recommended that I try ImagePrint which I just got. I was wondering if there is an good objective comparison of using ImagePrint vs. just using the standard Epson driver? I've done some test prints but I would like to hear from more experienced printers. Milt
2008-02-06 by Richard Orban
Sorry, Milt, no, there's not. --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "miltreeder" <miltonreeder@...> wrote: > > I was wondering if there is an good objective comparison of using ImagePrint vs. just using the standard Epson driver?
2008-02-06 by Eric Neilsen
While there may not be one in print or on the web, I can tell you that early versions of IP blew the doors off the Epson driver. I have not made direct comparisons with the latest IP and Epson printers at my studio I have made prints using my 4800 and compared those to a print made with IP7 and a 7800. The IP/7800 did look better. To really make a "it is better, hands down" statement, I'd need to have them in house to tinker with to flush out the possibilities. There are many possible combinations of printers, ink, drivers, profiling equipment, that it will be hard to find the unbiased comparison you are looking for. I don't think that you'll find anyone that can dispute that IP spool face will save you a ton of time over the life of both printer/software. Is that important or more important? For the price, Qimage and a low end profiler like Print Fix Pro may give you all you need. It worked well enough for me not to spend the $1500.00 to upgrade IP to include my 7000 footprint and the 4800 to current versions. Also do you really need a multi image layout program? Again, both Qimage and IP can do that, but if speed is any concern, your through put with IP will be much great per day. Issue or not? Hobby or business? You may be able to get a sample print made by Colorbyte, I have not looked in to that. Good luck. Eric Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 http://e.neilsen.home.att.net http://ericneilsenphotography.com Skype ejprinter _____
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Orban Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:00 AM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Imageprint vs. Epson Driver 7800 Sorry, Milt, no, there's not. --- In DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "miltreeder" <miltonreeder@...> wrote: > > I was wondering if there is an good objective comparison of using ImagePrint vs. just using the standard Epson driver? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2008-02-07 by miltreeder
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen" <e.neilsen2@...> wrote: > > While there may not be one in print or on the web, I can tell you that early versions of IP blew the doors off the Epson driver. I have not made direct comparisons with the latest IP and Epson printers at my studio I have made prints using my 4800 and compared those to a print made with IP7 and a 7800. > The IP/7800 did look better. To really make a "it is better, hands down" statement, I'd need to have them in house to tinker with to flush out the possibilities. There are many possible combinations of printers, ink,drivers, profiling equipment, that it will be hard to find the unbiased comparison you are looking for. > > I'm not looking or any of the other features of a RIP (multi images per print, automation, etc). I am simply looking to find the driver/profile combination that gives me the best images using the Epson K7 ink set. I don't want to go all the way and get John Cone's or other all black inksets as I switch from color to b&w often and I only have 1 printer.
2008-02-07 by BKPhoto@aol.com
Stay on the OEM path until you have a need for something you cannot find on it. Bill Kennedy K2 Press Austin, Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: miltreeder <miltonreeder@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 6:41 pm
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Imageprint vs. Epson Driver 7800
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen"
...> wrote:
>
> While there may not be one in print or on the web, I can tell you
that early versions of IP blew the doors off the Epson driver. I have
not made direct comparisons with the latest IP and Epson printers at
my studio I have made prints using my 4800 and compared those to a
print made with IP7 and a 7800.
> The IP/7800 did look better. To really make a "it is better, hands
down" statement, I'd need to have them in house to tinker with to
flush out the possibilities. There are many possible combinations of
printers, ink,drivers, profiling equipment, that it will be hard to
find the unbiased comparison you are looking for.
>
>
I'm not looking or any of the other features of a RIP (multi images
per print, automation, etc). I am simply looking to find the
driver/profile combination that gives me the best images using the
Epson K7 ink set. I don't want to go all the way and get John Cone's
or other all black inksets as I switch from color to b&w often and I
only have 1 printer.
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http://webmail.aol.com2008-02-07 by E Neilsen
Milt, If your looking for more control than you get out of the printer than ABW gives you, look into QTR, or QTR and a profile maker like Print Fix Pro. Or add the low cost Qimage to help sharpen the image give you the ;layout properties of a RIP (or many of them) and for $650.00 you have your self control over split tones, B&W, and color printing without the heavy investment of IP. Eric Eric Neilsen Photo 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 214 827-8301 http://ericneilsenphotography.com SKype ejprinter > > I'm not looking or any of the other features of a RIP (multi images per print, automation, etc). I am simply looking to find the driver/profile combination that gives me the best images using the Epson K7 ink set. I don't want to go all the way and get John Cone's or other all black inksets as I switch from color to b&w often and I only have 1 printer. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2008-02-07 by miltreeder
No, control is NOT the issue, print quality is the ONLY criteria.
Interesting results tonight. I have a scanned 4x5 bw image of the the
general store at Bodie, CA (the ghost town). It has a very full range
of tones so I thought it would be a good test. I also included a step
table showing the grays from 0-255.
I printed the same image using IP and the Epson driver on Photoshop.
The results:
- the IP print was neutral in tone vs the PS driver image being warm
toned
- the tonal separation on the IP print is better (e.g. visibley
noticeable)
- the IP print has better separation on my step wedge in the blacks.
I can see the separation between black and 005 (on a 255 scale) but on
the PS driver I must go up to 009 before I can see any difference in the
blacks.
So it seems that using a visual standard (e.g. very subjective) the IP
generated print had a better look than the PS generated print.
However, when I did a similar test in color, it was much less noticable.
The PS print just seemed a bit more saturated.
Milt
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "E Neilsen"
<e.neilsen2@...> wrote:
>
> Milt, If your looking for more control than you get out of the printer
than
> ABW gives you, look into QTR, or QTR and a profile maker like Print
Fix Pro.
> Or add the low cost Qimage to help sharpen the image give you the
;layout
> properties of a RIP (or many of them) and for $650.00 you have your
self> control over split tones, B&W, and color printing without the heavy > investment of IP. > > Eric
2008-02-07 by Michael King
Milt, Are you using the Epson ABW driver path or the colour driver path to print your B&W? You'll get the best B&W out of the Epson driver from using the ABW path and generating a a custom QTR create ICC profile for your print setup. The profile is easy to create if you have a spectro. The quality advantage I found with the IP and the x800 over the ABW path, was IP uses a better dither algorithm so you can't see the coloured ink droplets so easily. Epson is catching up all the time though and I have a x880 now and they have fixed this issue and I don't expect that there will be a noticable quality difference between IP and Epson ABW+ICC on the x880. IP is still useful for productivity and profiles - but that's not what you care about. Mike On 07/02/2008, miltreeder <miltonreeder@...> wrote: > > No, control is NOT the issue, print quality is the ONLY criteria. > Interesting results tonight. I have a scanned 4x5 bw image of the the > general store at Bodie, CA (the ghost town). It has a very full range > of tones so I thought it would be a good test. I also included a step > table showing the grays from 0-255. > I printed the same image using IP and the Epson driver on Photoshop. > The results: > - the IP print was neutral in tone vs the PS driver image being warm > toned > - the tonal separation on the IP print is better (e.g. visibley > noticeable) > - the IP print has better separation on my step wedge in the blacks. > I can see the separation between black and 005 (on a 255 scale) but on > the PS driver I must go up to 009 before I can see any difference in the > blacks. > > So it seems that using a visual standard (e.g. very subjective) the IP > generated print had a better look than the PS generated print. > > However, when I did a similar test in color, it was much less noticable. > The PS print just seemed a bit more saturated. > > Milt > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, > "E Neilsen" > <e.neilsen2@...> wrote: > > > > Milt, If your looking for more control than you get out of the printer > than > > ABW gives you, look into QTR, or QTR and a profile maker like Print > Fix Pro. > > Or add the low cost Qimage to help sharpen the image give you the > ;layout > > properties of a RIP (or many of them) and for $650.00 you have your > self > > control over split tones, B&W, and color printing without the heavy > > investment of IP. > > > > Eric > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2008-02-07 by CDTobie@aol.com
In a message dated 2/6/08 7:41:54 PM, miltonreeder@... writes:
> I'm not looking or any of the other features of a RIP (multi images
> per print, automation, etc). I am simply looking to find the
> driver/profile combination that gives me the best images using the
> Epson K7 ink set. I don't want to go all the way and get John Cone's
> or other all black inksets as I switch from color to b&w often and I
> only have 1 printer.
>
Opinions vary, but for your uses I don't see any need of a RIP; you can print
both color and B&W with excellent results right from the driver. For all the
talk I hear; most RIP based, and even most third party gray-ink based, prints
I see are actually less linear than what I get from the driver with an
appropriate profile.
C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all
time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2008-02-07 by CDTobie@aol.com
In a message dated 2/6/08 10:09:47 PM, miltonreeder@... writes:
>
> So it seems that using a visual standard (e.g. very subjective) the IP
> generated print had a better look than the PS generated print.
>
> However, when I did a similar test in color, it was much less noticable.
> The PS print just seemed a bit more saturated.
>
Without a custom profile that focuses on grays, you aren't really giving the
driver a fighting chance... neutrality and smoothness are both possible.
C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all
time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2008-02-07 by E Neilsen
So Milt, You have IP and a 7800? And you are asking us what they look like? One thing that has been mentioned before, an dthat is the older Epson printers like the 7000, 9000 etc can produce vastly superior prints compared to those from just the Epson driver for them. However, the newer machines don't gain as mucg, but still have some advantages over the Epson only prints. As you get better profiling equipment, even some of those advantages becomes less obvious. To me and I believe others, the spool time is one of the BIGGEST factors that IP still is a very viable option, not to mention the ability to mix and match print types on the same paper. Eric Neilsen Photo 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 214 827-8301 http://ericneilsenphotography.com SKype ejprinter _____
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of miltreeder Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:09 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Imageprint vs. Epson Driver 7800 - sample No, control is NOT the issue, print quality is the ONLY criteria. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]