Digital BW, The Print

My 7600 uses UT7, with Eboni K, and the MIS funnel-fill carts.

I understand that flushing is required when going from Ultrachrome to
Eboni-6, but what about UT7 to Eboni-6?

Since the K and LK appear to be the same in both sets, can I assume
those 2 are fine?

For the other 5, do I need to get new funnel-fill carts, or can I just
drain the existing ones, refill with 5 the new inks and run some purge
patterns until the new inks reach the head?

Thanks,

Mark

I'd flush the system.  Eboni-6 uses a base that MIS (or Image 
Specialists) says is not compatible with UltraChromes and many other 
similar glossy bases.  They've somewhat hedged their statements in the 
sense that I have not heard specifically that it is not compatible with 
the UT glossy base.  However, I did try Eboni-6 with MIS Glop, and I 
had some nozzle problems that I felt were not normal.  In my view there 
is a very good chance Eboni-6 and glop are not compatible.  MIS glop is 
in the UT7 inks, including the LK.  So, I would flush those lines, and 
I would not use the UT7 LK with Eboni-6.  It is a different and likely 
incompatible ink.

Good luck with the system.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark McCarvill" 
<espresso_forte@...> wrote:

>
> My 7600 uses UT7, with Eboni K, and the MIS funnel-fill carts.
> 
> I understand that flushing is required when going from Ultrachrome to
> Eboni-6, but what about UT7 to Eboni-6?
> 
> Since the K and LK appear to be the same in both sets, can I assume
> those 2 are fine?
> 
> For the other 5, do I need to get new funnel-fill carts, or can I just
> drain the existing ones, refill with 5 the new inks and run some purge
> patterns until the new inks reach the head?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark
>

Thanks, Paul. Glad I asked. 

Mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
<pr_roark@...> wrote:

>
> I'd flush the system.  Eboni-6 uses a base that MIS (or Image 
> Specialists) says is not compatible with UltraChromes and many other 
> similar glossy bases.  They've somewhat hedged their statements in the 
> sense that I have not heard specifically that it is not compatible with 
> the UT glossy base.  However, I did try Eboni-6 with MIS Glop, and I 
> had some nozzle problems that I felt were not normal.  In my view there 
> is a very good chance Eboni-6 and glop are not compatible.  MIS glop is 
> in the UT7 inks, including the LK.  So, I would flush those lines, and 
> I would not use the UT7 LK with Eboni-6.  It is a different and likely 
> incompatible ink.
> 
> Good luck with the system.  
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark McCarvill" 
> <espresso_forte@> wrote:
> >
> > My 7600 uses UT7, with Eboni K, and the MIS funnel-fill carts.
> > 
> > I understand that flushing is required when going from Ultrachrome to
> > Eboni-6, but what about UT7 to Eboni-6?
> > 
> > Since the K and LK appear to be the same in both sets, can I assume
> > those 2 are fine?
> > 
> > For the other 5, do I need to get new funnel-fill carts, or can I just
> > drain the existing ones, refill with 5 the new inks and run some purge
> > patterns until the new inks reach the head?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Mark
> >
>

Paul said, "I'd flush the system. Eboni-6 uses a base that MIS (or Image 
Specialists) says is not compatible with UltraChromes and many other 
similar glossy bases. They've somewhat hedged their statements in the 
sense that I have not heard specifically that it is not compatible with 
the UT glossy base. However, I did try Eboni-6 with MIS Glop, and I 
had some nozzle problems that I felt were not normal. In my view there 
is a very good chance Eboni-6 and glop are not compatible."

 

I am going to use my R1800 for both glossy color using the MISPRO color

inks and 3-MK using Eboni.  Does this mean I should run a couple pages

that flush the shared channels with of some sort of flushing fluid when

going back and forth?  I assume MIS's nozzle cleaning fluid (MIS-Fluid)

would be the appropriate flushing fluid?

 

Thanks,

 

Bob



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As far as I'm aware Eboni itself is the stock matte ink that comes 
with the MIS R1800 inkset so it has got to be fully compatible with 
the other R1800 inks.  I use it myself.

Eboni 6 contains dilutes in a different base I belive.

I also don't think MISPRO is the normal inkset for the R1800- that 
printer has red and blue inks not LM and LC.

Once I find some carts that aren't defective I'm going to try the 
smae thing as you with the R1800 glossy and 3-MK.

Roger

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Marsolais" 
<bob@...> wrote:
>
> Paul said, "I'd flush the system. Eboni-6 uses a base that MIS (or 
Image 
> Specialists) says is not compatible with UltraChromes and many 
other 
> similar glossy bases. They've somewhat hedged their statements in 
the 
> sense that I have not heard specifically that it is not compatible 
with 
> the UT glossy base. However, I did try Eboni-6 with MIS Glop, and I 
> had some nozzle problems that I felt were not normal. In my view 
there 
> is a very good chance Eboni-6 and glop are not compatible."
> 
>  
> 
> I am going to use my R1800 for both glossy color using the MISPRO 
color
> 
> inks and 3-MK using Eboni.  Does this mean I should run a couple 
pages
> 
> that flush the shared channels with of some sort of flushing fluid 
when
> 
> going back and forth?  I assume MIS's nozzle cleaning fluid (MIS-
Fluid)

> 
> would be the appropriate flushing fluid?
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Roger <rsmith02@...> wrote:
>
> As far as I'm aware Eboni itself is the stock matte ink that comes 
> with the MIS R1800 inkset so it has got to be fully compatible with 
> the other R1800 inks.  I use it myself.

Yes, and all 100% Eboni is the same.


> Eboni 6 contains dilutes in a different base I belive.

The commercial base I found that works best as a dilutant for Eboni 
is what appears to have some issues with the modern glossy inks.  So, 
it's not the 100% Eboni that I've been warned about, but rather the 
dilute inks in Eboni-6 that might be incompatible with glossy bases.


> 
> I also don't think MISPRO is the normal inkset for the R1800- that 
> printer has red and blue inks not LM and LC.

Most of the colors are MIS K4 colors and PK.  The K4-PK is a lower 
load ink that gives a better dmax with many of the newest printers, 
although I found MP-PK was better in my 1800.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

> "Mark McCarvill" <espresso_forte@...> wrote:
>
> My 7600 uses UT7, with Eboni K, and the MIS funnel-fill carts.
> 
> I understand that flushing is required when going from Ultrachrome 
to
> Eboni-6, but what about UT7 to Eboni-6?
> 

Hi Mark!

I am running my Epson 7600 with the same MIS carts. I just installed 
the Carbon 6 ink set that Paul posted a couple of weeks ago.

I haven't had a chance to play with it much yet. I put it in 3 days 
before going off to Orlando (Disney) with my 9 year old son. Only 
back 2 days now and working on taxes.....

Are you going to the Eboni-6? Do you have it yet?  Any interest in 
the Carbon 6?  I'd be interested to see what you think about your set-
up. 

I did a quick set-up in QTR with Epson Enhanced Matte, nothing more 
yet. I'll have to do a post separately on Carbon 6 later this week, 
too many distractions right now.

Best,
Michael

Hey Michael,

I'm still using UT7, but my supply will run out by June, so I'm
considering Eboni-6 or Carbon-6. I'll probably go with Carbon-6, but I
still need to find a supplier of glycerol.

I just need someone to post a good Eboni-6 or Carbon-6 QTR profile for
Premier Imaging Smooth B&W or even EEM (hint, hint!), because I don't
have the tools (or skill?) to make my own profiles. I tried before,
using a good scanner, and couldn't come close to the profiles made by
others. 

Mark 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Michael T.
Murphy" <uriel_bear@...> wrote:

>
> > "Mark McCarvill" <espresso_forte@> wrote:
> >
> > My 7600 uses UT7, with Eboni K, and the MIS funnel-fill carts.
> > 
> > I understand that flushing is required when going from Ultrachrome 
> to
> > Eboni-6, but what about UT7 to Eboni-6?
> > 
> 
> Hi Mark!
> 
> I am running my Epson 7600 with the same MIS carts. I just installed 
> the Carbon 6 ink set that Paul posted a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> I haven't had a chance to play with it much yet. I put it in 3 days 
> before going off to Orlando (Disney) with my 9 year old son. Only 
> back 2 days now and working on taxes.....
> 
> Are you going to the Eboni-6? Do you have it yet?  Any interest in 
> the Carbon 6?  I'd be interested to see what you think about your set-
> up. 
> 
> I did a quick set-up in QTR with Epson Enhanced Matte, nothing more 
> yet. I'll have to do a post separately on Carbon 6 later this week, 
> too many distractions right now.
> 
> Best,
> Michael
>

> ...
> considering Eboni-6 or Carbon-6. I'll probably go with 
> Carbon-6, but 

>I still need to find a supplier of glycerol.

http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/thescienceshop/the-
1704/GLYCERINE-USP-99.7-pct-/Detail 

This is the outfit I've used.  Glycerol, glycerin, and glycerine are 
all the same as far as I can tell.  I'm sure there are many outfits 
that sell it.  By the way, don't try to pull that stuff through a 
syringe needle.  It's too thick.  I use a syringe with a bottom fill 
adapter on it for handling glycerol.

By the way, I fired up my 7500 with Eboni-6 in it after more that a 
month of idlenes.  The nozzle check was perfect.  No other inkset 
I've used has been able to deliver this in that machine.

> I just need someone to post a good Eboni-6 or Carbon-6 QTR 
> profile for Premier Imaging Smooth B&W or even EEM (hint, hint!),

I've been using the Epson driver with "Create ICC-RGB" ICCs in the 
print preview.  The embedded curves are the same for all papers 
(matte only).  That is, this inkset seems to be consistent enough 
that the same curve produces a ramp that is well within linearization 
range.  Linearization is still needed.  (Although, surprisingly, a 
list member with C6 in a 2400 used one of my 2200 C6 ICCs with the 
2400 and it produced a good print.)  The curves I've used are in my 
various C6 or Eboni-6 download zip files.

Paul   
www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark McCarvill" 
<espresso_forte@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Michael,
> 
> I'm still using UT7, but my supply will run out by June ...
>I don't
> have the tools (or skill?) to make my own profiles. I tried before,
> using a good scanner, and couldn't come close to the profiles made 
by
> others. 
> 
> Mark 

Hey Mark,

Give me a shout when you have your system setup and we can get 
together and compare notes (I'm also interested in this inkset). I've 
got the tools to create curves so I can help you out with that. 

Dario

pr_roark wrote:

> By the way, I fired up my 7500 with Eboni-6 in it after more that a 
> month of idlenes.  The nozzle check was perfect.  No other inkset 
> I've used has been able to deliver this in that machine.

Had to do a similar job today, a 9000 that hasn't been used 
for almost a year.
Was loaded with a custom mix of inks: the Eboni channel was 
still open, the Sepia channel too which was a mix of Epson 
Archival (9500) pigment yellow + light magenta, the MIS 
Photo Black is still not open on all nozzles and the tube 
was actually blocked, the greys and the blue all MIS mixes 
somewhere in between.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,  Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

>> "Mark McCarvill" <espresso_forte@...> wrote:
>
> I'll probably go with Carbon-6, but I still need to
> find a supplier of glycerol.
> 

I ordered from the link that Paul provided. 

The gallon is by far the most economical, but it is much more 
glycerine than most folks will need. To mix up 250ml of each ink 
dilution to fill a set of 7 - 220ml carts, for example, you need a 
total of 1.25 liters of base: glycerine, water, and Photo Flo. That 
comes to about 350ml of glycerine. If you would like some glycerine 
to do  testing for now I will be glad to send you a small bottle.

I simplified the mixing process for myself. I reverse-engineered 
Paul's formula to specify the amount of Eboni and base needed for 
each ink dilution. That works around the "waterfall" approach of 
mixing the previous ink with additional base to get the next ink 
dilution, etc.

For future batches I am going to start with a set of bottles, put in 
the amount of Eboni required for each dilution, and then add base to 
make the required quantity - 1 liter, or whatever the desired amount 
of ink is.  

But I have about 7 different versions of the spreadsheet right now. I 
was up until 4am last night creating formulas for 3 different 
potential mixes of dye and pigment inks, etc.  I will post a cleaned-
up and documented spreadsheet next week. In the meantime let me know 
if you want a copy to use for mixing and I will send one.


> I just need someone to post a good Eboni-6 or Carbon-6
> QTR profile for Premier Imaging Smooth B&W or even
> EEM (hint, hint!), because I don't have the tools
> (or skill?) to make my own profiles. 
>

I have the tools, not the skill. ;>)  

You are welcome to copies of any of my curves or ICC profiles at any 
time. If you don't have the ink yet I would suggest that you wait 
until you actually need them, as I will continue to tweak/improve 
them.  In the meantime you can look at Paul's curves and 
documentation to get a feel for the inks and process.

I have an i1 spectrophotometer.  I created a curve for EEM in QTR 
using the 21 step ramp and 6 channels. It is fairly smooth, though I 
have not had a chance to validate it using the 51 step ramp yet.  

I haven't had a lot of time with the inks. For the last couple of 
days I have been printing a variety of 22x26 inch or larger images to 
get a feel for the ink set. I have been using some older scanned 6x7 
color negatives and slides mixed to B&W, scans of 645 B&W film, and 
digital capture converted to greyscale.  

I love the ink set and prints, though I always hate my own 
images. ;>) Tyler's image looked fantastic on Moab Entrada Bright 
White using the base EEM curve. Beautiful, rich, dark blacks that 
just suck you in.  Not too warm on that paper.

I am taking pain pills for my back, so my short term memory sucks and 
I get a little lost in what I am doing at times (or I procrastinate, 
or just plain distracted - I am supposed to be working on taxes right 
now.) So it all a slow process, but I am having fun.

Feel free to e-mail if you would like me to send anything.

Best,
Michael

Michael,

...
> I simplified the mixing process for myself. I reverse-engineered 
> Paul's formula to specify the amount of Eboni and base needed for 
> each ink dilution. That works around the "waterfall" approach of 
> mixing the previous ink with additional base to get the next ink 
> dilution, etc.

I don't use the "waterfall" method either.  I just pre-mix the base 
and measure the amount of Eboni to base for each dilution using a 
scales.  I think there are some who do not have scales, however, and 
measuring the very small percentages can become very inaccurate.  So, 
I wanted it to be easy for those people.  That is one of the reasons 
the Carbon-6 formula varies from the Eboni-6 version.  Eb-6 does not 
lend itself to easy home mixing without a scales.

 
> For future batches I am going to start with a set of bottles,

Yes, and I have each bottle marked with inkset, position, and 
dilution.

I have the Carbon-6 formulas in my PDF on that inkset.  
See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf at page 3.


By the way, the glycerol disolves in the distilled water much nicer 
if the pint of water is heated for a minute in the microwave.

Paul   
www.PaulRoark.com

Ernst Dinkla wrote:

>... a 9000 that hasn't been used for almost a year.
> Was loaded with a custom mix of inks: the Eboni channel was 
> still open, the Sepia channel too which was a mix of Epson 
> Archival (9500) pigment yellow + light magenta, the MIS 
> Photo Black is still not open on all nozzles and the tube 
> was actually blocked, the greys and the blue all MIS mixes 
> somewhere in between.
> 

I think my MIS PK nozzles are the most likely to have gaps.  I 
speculate that the combination of the high load and amount of binder 
needed to retain a gloss conspire.  I may have seen the highest 
frequency when the MIS PK is next to the Eboni -- but this is 
uncertain.  On printers where I have extra channels, like the 1800, 
I'm thinking of isolating the PK with cleaning fluid on at least one 
side of the PK.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Michael T.
Murphy" <uriel_bear@...> wrote:
>
> I ordered from the link that Paul provided. If you would like some
glycerine to do testing for now I will be glad to send you a small
bottle.>

Thanks, Mike. I'm in Toronto so I've been looking for a local
glycerine supplier and I just found one. I think I'm going to order 1
liter because I need enough glycerine to make flushing liquid, and to
mix the Carbon-6 inks.

> I will post a cleaned-up and documented spreadsheet next week. In
the meantime let me know if you want a copy to use for mixing and I
will send one.> 

I'll watch for the posted spreadsheet. Now that I've found a local
glycerine supplier, I may speed up my transition to Carbon-6. I just
need to make a bunch of UT7 prints for a show I'm doing in May / June
and after that I'll have some time to switch over.

> I have an i1 spectrophotometer.  I created a curve for EEM in QTR
using the 21 step ramp and 6 channels. It is fairly smooth, though I
have not had a chance to validate it using the 51 step ramp yet.>

That's just it; I don't have a spectrophotometer. I understand some
people can make good profiles with scanners but I'm not one of them. I
won't be in a position to print any Carbon-6 for about month but I'll
try your EEM QTR profile at that time. I've found that Premier Smooth
B&W works very well with the EEM QTR profile.

> I haven't had a lot of time with the inks. For the last couple of
days I have been printing a variety of 22x26 inch or larger images to
get a feel for the ink set. I have been using some older scanned 6x7
color negatives and slides mixed to B&W, scans of 645 B&W film, and
digital capture converted to greyscale.  

I've just moved from 4x5 to a Nikon D2x. It's been quite a change! But
so far I'm pleased with how it's going. I haven't yet printed anything
larger than 5x7 so I'm curious to see where my digital files start to
fall apart :)

Mark

Sounds good. It will be another month or so, but I'll drop you a line
when I'm up and running with Carbon-6.

Mark 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "met.graphix"
<metgraphix@...> wrote:

>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark McCarvill" 
> <espresso_forte@> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Michael,
> > 
> > I'm still using UT7, but my supply will run out by June ...
> >I don't
> > have the tools (or skill?) to make my own profiles. I tried before,
> > using a good scanner, and couldn't come close to the profiles made 
> by
> > others. 
> > 
> > Mark 
> 
> Hey Mark,
> 
> Give me a shout when you have your system setup and we can get 
> together and compare notes (I'm also interested in this inkset). I've 
> got the tools to create curves so I can help you out with that. 
> 
> Dario
>

pr_roark wrote:
> Ernst Dinkla wrote:
> 
>> ... a 9000 that hasn't been used for almost a year.
>> Was loaded with a custom mix of inks: the Eboni channel was 
>> still open, the Sepia channel too which was a mix of Epson 
>> Archival (9500) pigment yellow + light magenta, the MIS 
>> Photo Black is still not open on all nozzles and the tube 
>> was actually blocked, the greys and the blue all MIS mixes 
>> somewhere in between.
>>
> 
> I think my MIS PK nozzles are the most likely to have gaps.  I 
> speculate that the combination of the high load and amount of binder 
> needed to retain a gloss conspire.  I may have seen the highest 
> frequency when the MIS PK is next to the Eboni -- but this is 
> uncertain.  On printers where I have extra channels, like the 1800, 
> I'm thinking of isolating the PK with cleaning fluid on at least one 
> side of the PK.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 

Which makes the decision by HP to add a GE channel to the 
Z3100 a wise one. They did not separate the PK from the 
other inks with the GE in between but the PK is on the same 
head the Light Grey is. Anyway the capping station system is 
of a totally other construction than Epson's too so hard to 
compare on how inks could get mixed.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

> "pr_roark" 
>
> I don't use the "waterfall" method either.  
>

Good, then I don't feel so much like a traitor swapping 
methods!  ;>)  

I will include both the conventional mixing method and 
the "waterfall" method in the spreadsheet.  I can see where the 
measuing could be difficult when mixing small quantities for machines 
like the 2400, etc. I am so used to the big machines, the half-liter 
quantities are pretty easy to measure.

I am starting to have more fun playing around mixing inks than making 
and printing photographs.  If I had more machines I would mix up 3 
different sets now just to test them.  

Too much work to flush and set up the big 7600's though. Guess I will 
have to steal my wifes R260. :>)

Ernst has a good warning, that some day I will need to claen up the 
messes I am making. Plus spring is here, these are better 
distractions when it is cold outside.

Best,
Michael

> Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> Was loaded with a custom mix of inks: the Eboni channel was 
> still open, the Sepia channel too which was a mix of Epson 
> Archival (9500) pigment yellow + light magenta, the MIS 
> 

Ernst,

I have quite a bit of the Epson Ultrachrome K2 Photo Black from a 
10600 around (big 500ml carts.)

Have you used the K2 Photo Black in a b&w mix? I know Jon Cone 
mentioned that the newer K3 black was somewhat brownish compared to 
his black.  

Any thoughts on mixing grey shades using that black, for a 6-7 ink 
glossy b&w ink set?

Thanks!

Michael


PS: Your ink set sounds like something my 9 year old would concoct in 
the kitchen. He just discovered that he likes mustard last week, 
mixes it with everything. ;>)

Michael T. Murphy wrote:
>> Ernst Dinkla wrote:
> 
>> Was loaded with a custom mix of inks: the Eboni channel was 
>> still open, the Sepia channel too which was a mix of Epson 
>> Archival (9500) pigment yellow + light magenta, the MIS 
>>
> 
> Ernst,
> 
> I have quite a bit of the Epson Ultrachrome K2 Photo Black from a 
> 10600 around (big 500ml carts.)
> 
> Have you used the K2 Photo Black in a b&w mix? I know Jon Cone 
> mentioned that the newer K3 black was somewhat brownish compared to 
> his black.  
> 
> Any thoughts on mixing grey shades using that black, for a 6-7 ink 
> glossy b&w ink set?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> PS: Your ink set sounds like something my 9 year old would concoct in 
> the kitchen. He just discovered that he likes mustard last week, 
> mixes it with everything. ;>)

The gloss black inks I have used were Epson Archival Pigment 
(10000CF, 9500) which is neither a good gloss nor a dense 
matte ink but has good printer behavior and the MIS PK as 
written about.

The UC Photo Black is also quite brown to my knowledge but 
the MIS PK isn't neutral either. You could mix it but you 
first have to find a compatible ink medium. The mixing I did 
was between MIS PK and the lightest grey ink MIS had at that 
time (for the yellow position). I think Paul knows best what 
medium to use for mixing UC inks. Of course there is the 
gloss enhancer of the R1800 but that's an expensive choice :-).

I only revived the 9000 to print a 1.8 mm thick matt for a 
customer as I can not feed that through my Z3100. Otherwise 
the Z3100 delivers a better B&W print.


Well my youngest son more than twice that age learned from 
me to mix mustard in the mayo for the French fries, that's a 
Belgian recipe :-) The rest of his kitchen activity is 
limited to ketchup I'm afraid. Too many American movies here.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

> Ernst Dinkla :
>
> 
> The UC Photo Black is also quite brown to my knowledge but 
> the MIS PK isn't neutral either. You could mix it but you 
> first have to find a compatible ink medium. The mixing I did 
>

MIS selss a base that I think is for their UT inks that I was hoping 
to use. Based on Paul's previous comments I thought it would be 
compatible. I will have to ask him.

I am using K2 for matte only, so I thought that might be a good use 
for the K2 Photo Black I have left. I'll have to see if I can 
neutralize the color it.  

I am mostly just looking for an ink to create a glossy b&w ink set to 
test with before I decide what to run for glossy b&w long term on the 
newer fiber papers.  I guess a machine like the 3100, or my Epson 
7880, or Epsons next line might just be easier. 

But I have the time and it is fun. If I had enough machines I would 
also test a dye version, that would make a good glossy, though the 
tones for the highlights would take some work.

 
> Well my youngest son more than twice that age learned from 
> me to mix mustard in the mayo for the French fries, that's a 
> Belgian recipe :-) The rest of his kitchen activity is 
> limited to ketchup I'm afraid. Too many American movies here.
> 

I will have to pass that on!  My son likes food. He always has, since 
he was 1 or 2.  We will have to make sure he stays active!

He is pretty good about trying new things. When we travel he is 
always willing to try Thai or other something else new. His favorite 
foods were tofu and broccoli when he was 5. 

That was before his mother took him to McDonald's for the first 
time ....  That stuff is addictive for kids, it is a shame it has 
ruined cuisine world wide, as you mention.

Best,
Michael

> ... you first have to find a compatible ink medium. 
> ... for mixing UC inks. 

I've used my bare bones water + glycerol (no photo flo) at a 50-50 
mix and it's OK.  However, for more you'll need a compatible 
surfactant.

MIS sells what it calls "UC Base" that is presumeably compatible with 
UC inks.  I have never tested it with UC inks.  It's used for their 
cleaning solution also and appears to be compatible with everything.  
I found it bronzed terribly with MIS glossy inks and was a very bad 
base for Eboni also.  But it might be just right for the UC inks.  
It'd be the one I'd start experimenting with first if I wanted to 
dilute a UC glossy ink.

Michael wrote:
>...
> MIS selss a base that I think is for their UT inks that 
> I was hoping to use. 

They have tried to sell the UC base for that, and it bronzes too much 
to be useful.  The MIS glop is the best base for the MIS UT inks.

Paul   
www.PaulRoark.com

Thank you Paul!

I really appreciate the quick feedback. You are a great asset to this 
forum, as are Ernst, and many others.

best,
Michael