Digital BW, The Print

Hello all,

My Epson 1400 just arrived and refillable carts are on the way. Now I
need to choose an inkset. Carbon pigment or color pigment? Up to now
I've been printing with carbon pigment only, but this time maybe I'd
like to do color as well.

1- Choosing the Eboni-6 would be a no brainer since as Paul just
mentionned BO or the full set can be used depending on the paper.
Lightfastness if I'm not mistaken should be most excellent.

Questions: 
-There are eight inks in the Eboni-6 inkset. Which ones can/should I use?

-Can glossy paper be used at this time or has this option not
available yet?

- When doing BO, with QTR I presume, can one print full size (A3+) and
still get potentially good printing? Up to now I have limited BO
prints to 8.5x11"

2- Color printing: Would the K4 inkset be indicated for both color and
 b&w printing on the Epson 1400. 

Again, which of the eight inks in the K4 inkset could I use on a
printer like the 1400? 

Matte or glossy or both with this inkset. Pros and con with this inket.

Your input will be great value to me and needless to say much appreciated.

Thank you,
Andre

Andre,

> My Epson 1400 just arrived and refillable carts are on the way. 
> Now I need to choose an inkset. Carbon pigment or color pigment? 


Because the 1400 appears to make a very nice Eboni Black Only 
printer, it should be possible to have color inks with Eboni as the 
black.  For my every-day, general printer I have a 260 set up that 
way -- Eboni in K and MIS K4 color pigs in the color positions.  The 
color is quite different than the Claria, but a good profiler should 
be able to handle it.  (I made a curve/layer that does the job.)



> Questions: 
> -There are eight inks in the Eboni-6 inkset.

There are 6 inks, including the 100% Eboni.   The k2 and k3 machines 
use M and LM for the LK and LLK spots.  (They are the same density.)


> -Can glossy paper be used at this time or has this option not
> available yet?

No.  You could put a PKN in the K cart.  The 260 RC PKN or PKC would 
be candidates.


> - When doing BO, with QTR I presume, can one print full size 
> (A3+) and still get potentially good printing? 

Yes, but we've noticed some microbanding of images within 1 inch of 
the top and bottom borders.



> 2- Color printing: Would the K4 inkset be indicated 
> for both color and b&w printing on the Epson 1400. 

Yes.  The K4 (or MIS Pro) colors should work in the 1400.  They do in 
my 260.  



> Again, which of the eight inks in the K4 inkset could I use on a
> printer like the 1400? 

The color and Eboni, but there is no LK or LLK in a hextone color 
setup.

I'd use the 260 RC PKC (in a 1400 cart) for glossy black only.

 
> Matte or glossy or both with this inkset.

The midtones are good for matte or glossy.  You'll have to change 
black inks to switch between glossy and matte papers.

> Pros and con with this inket.

The colors were outside what my low sample number color profiler 
could handle well.  My curves layer will probably work better.

By the way, it's not out yet, but by the end of the week the MIS UT14 
might be available.  It'll be a B&W inkset that is glossy and matte 
compatible wihtout changing inks.  It's a bit premature -- don't 
bother MIS yet with orders -- but see http://www.paulroark.com/BW-
Info/UT14.pdf 

Hope this helps.

Paul   
www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
<pr_roark@...> wrote:

> 
> By the way, it's not out yet, but by the end of the week the MIS UT14 
> might be available.  It'll be a B&W inkset that is glossy and matte 
> compatible wihtout changing inks.  It's a bit premature -- don't 
> bother MIS yet with orders -- but see http://www.paulroark.com/BW-
> Info/UT14.pdf 
> 
> Hope this helps.

Thank you sir, you were helpful as ever. But now I've got one more
choice to pounder. :)

I've printed the UT14.pdf and will read it later tonight.

I may do something with my R260 also. It is setup for BO printing with
Eboni in the K position and cleaning fluid in the other carts. Can ink
be put in the other carts after just emtying the cleaning fluid? 

Thanks again,
Andre

>... Can ink be put in the other carts after just emtying the 
> cleaning fluid? 

I'd rinse the cart with the ink that is intended to be in there to 
reduce the extent of dilution.  But, yes, I re-use carts if they are 
spongeless and well rinsed.

Paul   
www.PaulRoark.com

Hello Andre,

>- When doing BO, with QTR I presume, can one print full size (A3+) 
>and still get potentially good printing? Up to now I have limited 
>BO prints to 8.5x11"

Any grainy appearance that BO may have (and it varies depending on
which printer and technique are used) does not increase with print
size.  It is not like film grain that is enlarged.  So with larger
prints any graininess will most likely be less noticeable because a
larger print is normally viewed from a greater distance.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
I-Trak 2.1   http://www.cjcom.net/itrak.htm

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@...> wrote:
>
Hello Clayton,

Thanks for the explanations about A3+ BO print size. Waitng for the
carts to arrive. Will most certainly give it a try.

Cheers,
Andre

Hi Paul,

I went and read your page on the 1400.

Do you think it's going to be possible to print PK Black Only with the 
1400?

I'd love to be able to use that combo on the Ilford Gold Silk paper, 
without 'spraying'.

Thanks,
Scott

> Do you think it's going to be possible to print PK Black 
> Only with the 1400?
> 
> I'd love to be able to use that combo on the Ilford Gold Silk paper, 
> without 'spraying'.

Yes, with QTR the 1400 can print black only with MK or PK (or PKN).  Of 
course, UT14 can print on glossy with no spraying and no need to change 
inks.

Paul     
www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul and Everyone.

I have a couple of questions, if I may, regarding the 1400 which I 
realize you and others are still experimenting with, followed by a 
question on the C88+.  

Regarding the 1400. 

1)May have missed this in the discussion but with the K line 
filled with EB6 {black carbon ink (eboni-6)} M are the other five 
lines in the CIS simply left empty - available for a possible 
changeover to the UT-14 (M, PK, glop formula) at a later date?      
2)Did you have to modify the cover in order to install the 
superjet CIS?
3)Anything new with regard to other possible variations 
for `smoothness of print quality' using only a portion of the EB6 
inks,such as just a K2 and/or a K3 mixture? 

Regarding the C88+

1)Has anyone tried the MIS M and LC carbon inks in a C88+, that 
is using the eboni-6 M in the K line and mixing the eboni-6 M and LC 
(½ M and ½ LC) to achieve the 13.5 carbon equivalency for the 3 other 
lines? Can one simply pour one ink into the CIS, followed by the 
other and then shake the inks in the cartridge, or is there another 
method for mixing the inks?    

Thanks.  


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" 
<pr_roark@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > Do you think it's going to be possible to print PK Black 
> > Only with the 1400?
> > 
> > I'd love to be able to use that combo on the Ilford Gold Silk 
paper, 
> > without 'spraying'.
> 
> Yes, with QTR the 1400 can print black only with MK or PK (or 
PKN).  Of 
> course, UT14 can print on glossy with no spraying and no need to 
change 

> inks.
> 
> Paul     
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

> Regarding the 1400. 
> 
> 1)May have missed this in the discussion but with the K line 
> filled with EB6 {black carbon ink (eboni-6)} M are the other five 
> lines in the CIS simply left empty - available for a possible 
> changeover to the UT-14 (M, PK, glop formula) at a later date?

The 1400 can be set up in a number of ways.  For example, with Eboni 
in the K position, those who want a very flexible dedicated B&W 
inkset in the printer might want the UT14 inkset in the other 5 
positions.  If one only wanted 100% carbon matte prints like the 1800 
3-MK approach can do along with color, they other 5 positions might 
be color.  (I have MIS k4 colors in my 260, for example.)  Or, if one 
wanted super-smooth 100% carbon B&W, the other 5 positions could be 
Eboni-6 dilute inks.  (You never want in inkjet position to be dry, 
so some ink or glop or clear base has to be used.)

      
> 2)Did you have to modify the cover in order to install the 
> superjet CIS?

I have not installed a CIS in the 1400.  It looks like MIS has theirs 
rigged such that the cover stays on the printer.  
See http://www.inksupply.com/cfs_1400.cfm 


> 3)Anything new with regard to other possible variations 
> for `smoothness of print quality' using only a portion of the EB6 
> inks,such as just a K2 and/or a K3 mixture? 

I have not had time to do so yet, but I'm interested is seeing what 
the individual Eboni-6 dilutions print like with the 1400.  I think 
it's possible that use of only some might lead to interesting 
possibilities.  

Frankly, so far I'm very impressed with the 1400. I suspect it will 
lend itself to lots of different configurations.


> 
> Regarding the C88+
> 
> 1)Has anyone tried the MIS M and LC carbon inks in a C88+, that 
> is using the eboni-6 M in the K line and mixing the eboni-6 M 
> and LC (½ M and ½ LC) to achieve the 13.5 carbon equivalency 
> for the 3 other lines?

The Eboni-6 M is not dense enough to result in a good dmax.  It's 
like an LK.

> Can one simply pour one ink into the CIS, followed by the 
> other and then shake the inks in the cartridge, or is 
> there another method for mixing the inks?    
> 

They'll mix easily in almost any container.  You don't need any fancy 
equipment.  Just be sure things are clean.  I think I'd mix them 
before pouring them into the CIS, however.  I'm not sure how accurate 
MIS's measuring is when filling the 4 oz. bottles, but I assume the 
entire M and LC bottles could simply be poured into a standard 
kitchen type measuring cup -- probably 2 cup size safer -- stirred 
and then poured into the CIS tanks.

Paul   
www.PaulRoark.com

With respect to the BO + color inkset choices, has anyone set up a 1400 with the Eboni + MISPRO or K4 inksets that can comment on the performance? Tech support at MIS says 'should' be fine as well as the earlier message here with respect to the 260 setup. Information though, from actual 1400 users experiences who have made the set up would be most helpful. My new 1400 is indeed impressive with a few initial OEM BO and color prints much to my liking, so once that set of inks is exhausted, time to move to the MIS choices. (Of course with cleaning carts and purging in between).

Thanks in advance

Jerry



--- On Thu, 6/5/08, pr_roark <pr_roark@...> wrote:

> From: pr_roark <pr_roark@...>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 1400: Choosing an inkset
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, June 5, 2008, 11:18 PM
> > Regarding the 1400. 
> > 
> > 1)May have missed this in the discussion but with the
> K line 
> > filled with EB6 {black carbon ink (eboni-6)} M are the
> other five 
> > lines in the CIS simply left empty - available for a
> possible 
> > changeover to the UT-14 (M, PK, glop formula) at a
> later date?
> 
> The 1400 can be set up in a number of ways.  For example,
> with Eboni 
> in the K position, those who want a very flexible dedicated
> B&W 
> inkset in the printer might want the UT14 inkset in the
> other 5 
> positions.  If one only wanted 100% carbon matte prints
> like the 1800 
> 3-MK approach can do along with color, they other 5
> positions might 
> be color.  (I have MIS k4 colors in my 260, for example.) 
> Or, if one 
> wanted super-smooth 100% carbon B&W, the other 5
> positions could be 
> Eboni-6 dilute inks.  (You never want in inkjet position to
> be dry, 
> so some ink or glop or clear base has to be used.)
> 
>       
> > 2)Did you have to modify the cover in order to install
> the 
> > superjet CIS?
> 
> I have not installed a CIS in the 1400.  It looks like MIS
> has theirs 
> rigged such that the cover stays on the printer.  
> See http://www.inksupply.com/cfs_1400.cfm 
> 
> 
> > 3)Anything new with regard to other possible
> variations 
> > for `smoothness of print quality' using only a
> portion of the EB6 
> > inks,such as just a K2 and/or a K3 mixture? 
> 
> I have not had time to do so yet, but I'm interested is
> seeing what 
> the individual Eboni-6 dilutions print like with the 1400. 
> I think 
> it's possible that use of only some might lead to
> interesting 
> possibilities.  
> 
> Frankly, so far I'm very impressed with the 1400. I
> suspect it will 
> lend itself to lots of different configurations.
> 
> 
> > 
> > Regarding the C88+
> > 
> > 1)Has anyone tried the MIS M and LC carbon inks in a
> C88+, that 
> > is using the eboni-6 M in the K line and mixing the
> eboni-6 M 
> > and LC (½ M and ½ LC) to achieve the 13.5 carbon
> equivalency 
> > for the 3 other lines?
> 
> The Eboni-6 M is not dense enough to result in a good dmax.
>  It's 
> like an LK.
> 
> > Can one simply pour one ink into the CIS, followed by
> the 
> > other and then shake the inks in the cartridge, or is 
> > there another method for mixing the inks?    
> > 
> 
> They'll mix easily in almost any container.  You
> don't need any fancy 
> equipment.  Just be sure things are clean.  I think I'd
> mix them 
> before pouring them into the CIS, however.  I'm not
> sure how accurate 
> MIS's measuring is when filling the 4 oz. bottles, but
> I assume the 
> entire M and LC bottles could simply be poured into a
> standard 
> kitchen type measuring cup -- probably 2 cup size safer --
> stirred 
> and then poured into the CIS tanks.
> 
> Paul   
> www.PaulRoark.com

Jerry, I am using a 1400 with the Cone K6 inks and CIS. I really like 
this combo. If you look at InkJetMall.com you'll see that they are 
archival in the extreme.

All this stuff works with Harrington's QUAD sw.

Regards, Bill

jerry dungan wrote:

> With respect to the BO + color inkset choices, has anyone set up a 
> 1400 with the Eboni + MISPRO or K4 inksets that can comment on the 
> performance? Tech support at MIS says 'should' be fine as well as the 
> earlier message here with respect to the 260 setup. Information 
> though, from actual 1400 users experiences who have made the set up 
> would be most helpful. My new 1400 is indeed impressive with a few 
> initial OEM BO and color prints much to my liking, so once that set of 
> inks is exhausted, time to move to the MIS choices. (Of course with 
> cleaning carts and purging in between).
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Jerry
>
> --- On Thu, 6/5/08, pr_roark <pr_roark@yahoo. com 
> <mailto:pr_roark%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> > From: pr_roark <pr_roark@yahoo. com <mailto:pr_roark%40yahoo.com>>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 1400: Choosing an inkset
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com 
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Thursday, June 5, 2008, 11:18 PM
> > > Regarding the 1400.
> > >
> > > 1)May have missed this in the discussion but with the
> > K line
> > > filled with EB6 {black carbon ink (eboni-6)} M are the
> > other five
> > > lines in the CIS simply left empty - available for a
> > possible
> > > changeover to the UT-14 (M, PK, glop formula) at a
> > later date?
> >
> > The 1400 can be set up in a number of ways. For example,
> > with Eboni
> > in the K position, those who want a very flexible dedicated
> > B&W
> > inkset in the printer might want the UT14 inkset in the
> > other 5
> > positions. If one only wanted 100% carbon matte prints
> > like the 1800
> > 3-MK approach can do along with color, they other 5
> > positions might
> > be color. (I have MIS k4 colors in my 260, for example.)
> > Or, if one
> > wanted super-smooth 100% carbon B&W, the other 5
> > positions could be
> > Eboni-6 dilute inks. (You never want in inkjet position to
> > be dry,
> > so some ink or glop or clear base has to be used.)
> >
> >
> > > 2)Did you have to modify the cover in order to install
> > the
> > > superjet CIS?
> >
> > I have not installed a CIS in the 1400. It looks like MIS
> > has theirs
> > rigged such that the cover stays on the printer.
> > See http://www.inksuppl y.com/cfs_ 1400.cfm 
> <http://www.inksupply.com/cfs_1400.cfm>
> >
> >
> > > 3)Anything new with regard to other possible
> > variations
> > > for `smoothness of print quality' using only a
> > portion of the EB6
> > > inks,such as just a K2 and/or a K3 mixture?
> >
> > I have not had time to do so yet, but I'm interested is
> > seeing what
> > the individual Eboni-6 dilutions print like with the 1400.
> > I think
> > it's possible that use of only some might lead to
> > interesting
> > possibilities.
> >
> > Frankly, so far I'm very impressed with the 1400. I
> > suspect it will
> > lend itself to lots of different configurations.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Regarding the C88+
> > >
> > > 1)Has anyone tried the MIS M and LC carbon inks in a
> > C88+, that
> > > is using the eboni-6 M in the K line and mixing the
> > eboni-6 M
> > > and LC (\ufffd M and \ufffd LC) to achieve the 13.5 carbon
> > equivalency
> > > for the 3 other lines?
> >
> > The Eboni-6 M is not dense enough to result in a good dmax.
> > It's
> > like an LK.
> >
> > > Can one simply pour one ink into the CIS, followed by
> > the
> > > other and then shake the inks in the cartridge, or is
> > > there another method for mixing the inks?
> > >
> >
> > They'll mix easily in almost any container. You
> > don't need any fancy
> > equipment. Just be sure things are clean. I think I'd
> > mix them
> > before pouring them into the CIS, however. I'm not
> > sure how accurate
> > MIS's measuring is when filling the 4 oz. bottles, but
> > I assume the
> > entire M and LC bottles could simply be poured into a
> > standard
> > kitchen type measuring cup -- probably 2 cup size safer --
> > stirred
> > and then poured into the CIS tanks.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark. com
>
>

For serious color work I wouldn't load MIS pigment inks in a dye
printer.  I did this with a R220 and the inks just aren't close enough
to what the driver expects and ultimately weren't profilable if you
want more than casually acceptable color.  

I now use a (pigment-based) R1800 with MIS color inks and it's fine
and profiles well.

Roger


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, jerry dungan
<jerry_4y@...> wrote:
>
> With respect to the BO + color inkset choices, has anyone set up a
1400 with the Eboni + MISPRO or K4 inksets that can comment on the
performance? Tech support at MIS says 'should' be fine as well as the
earlier message here with respect to the 260 setup. Information
though, from actual 1400 users experiences who have made the set up
would be most helpful. My new 1400 is indeed impressive with a few
initial OEM BO and color prints much to my liking, so once that set of
inks is exhausted, time to move to the MIS choices. (Of course with
cleaning carts and purging in between).

> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 6/5/08, pr_roark <pr_roark@...> wrote:
> 
> > From: pr_roark <pr_roark@...>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 1400: Choosing an inkset
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thursday, June 5, 2008, 11:18 PM
> > > Regarding the 1400. 
> > > 
> > > 1)May have missed this in the discussion but with the
> > K line 
> > > filled with EB6 {black carbon ink (eboni-6)} M are the
> > other five 
> > > lines in the CIS simply left empty - available for a
> > possible 
> > > changeover to the UT-14 (M, PK, glop formula) at a
> > later date?
> > 
> > The 1400 can be set up in a number of ways.  For example,
> > with Eboni 
> > in the K position, those who want a very flexible dedicated
> > B&W 
> > inkset in the printer might want the UT14 inkset in the
> > other 5 
> > positions.  If one only wanted 100% carbon matte prints
> > like the 1800 
> > 3-MK approach can do along with color, they other 5
> > positions might 
> > be color.  (I have MIS k4 colors in my 260, for example.) 
> > Or, if one 
> > wanted super-smooth 100% carbon B&W, the other 5
> > positions could be 
> > Eboni-6 dilute inks.  (You never want in inkjet position to
> > be dry, 
> > so some ink or glop or clear base has to be used.)
> > 
> >       
> > > 2)Did you have to modify the cover in order to install
> > the 
> > > superjet CIS?
> > 
> > I have not installed a CIS in the 1400.  It looks like MIS
> > has theirs 
> > rigged such that the cover stays on the printer.  
> > See http://www.inksupply.com/cfs_1400.cfm 
> > 
> > 
> > > 3)Anything new with regard to other possible
> > variations 
> > > for `smoothness of print quality' using only a
> > portion of the EB6 
> > > inks,such as just a K2 and/or a K3 mixture? 
> > 
> > I have not had time to do so yet, but I'm interested is
> > seeing what 
> > the individual Eboni-6 dilutions print like with the 1400. 
> > I think 
> > it's possible that use of only some might lead to
> > interesting 
> > possibilities.  
> > 
> > Frankly, so far I'm very impressed with the 1400. I
> > suspect it will 
> > lend itself to lots of different configurations.
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > Regarding the C88+
> > > 
> > > 1)Has anyone tried the MIS M and LC carbon inks in a
> > C88+, that 
> > > is using the eboni-6 M in the K line and mixing the
> > eboni-6 M 
> > > and LC (½ M and ½ LC) to achieve the 13.5 carbon
> > equivalency 
> > > for the 3 other lines?
> > 
> > The Eboni-6 M is not dense enough to result in a good dmax.
> >  It's 
> > like an LK.
> > 
> > > Can one simply pour one ink into the CIS, followed by
> > the 
> > > other and then shake the inks in the cartridge, or is 
> > > there another method for mixing the inks?    
> > > 
> > 
> > They'll mix easily in almost any container.  You
> > don't need any fancy 
> > equipment.  Just be sure things are clean.  I think I'd
> > mix them 
> > before pouring them into the CIS, however.  I'm not
> > sure how accurate 
> > MIS's measuring is when filling the 4 oz. bottles, but
> > I assume the 
> > entire M and LC bottles could simply be poured into a
> > standard 
> > kitchen type measuring cup -- probably 2 cup size safer --
> > stirred 
> > and then poured into the CIS tanks.
> > 
> > Paul   
> > www.PaulRoark.com
>

The 1400 is totally fine with Piezography K6 inks. Many are using them
for that.

john