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Digital BW, The Print

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New and confused

New and confused

2008-07-08 by jthorner

I have an Epson 2200 and am very happy with the color results I've
been able to achieve with it, but now I wish to do more black & white
printing without setting up a wet darkroom.

Browsing earlier messages here there seems to be many who say "don't
bother" and others who point to exotic software and third party ink
sets.   Maybe it would be easier to set up a darkroom after all :(.

Is there a modestly priced printer for sizes up to 11x14 with which it
is relatively easy to achieve great B&W results?

Re: [Digital BW] New and confused

2008-07-08 by Richard Smallfield

Don't spend any more on printer for now.

I've been using a 2100 - same as the 2200 but for some reason America likes to have different names for everything (even Harry Potter books - it's one of the world's puzzles for me) ... with Quad Tone Rip ($50) you will get excellent BW results with Ultrachrome inks on mat paper.

If you want to use lustre paper you'll have to use spray to get rid of the bronzing.

It's a better printer than people give it credit for, with Epson inks.

I print for people who want A3+ exhibition prints and they're all happy.

I do need to upgrade, but more for size than anything. BW prints are perfectly good with Quadtone Rip.

Feel free to email me about  it.

Richard

At 08:21 a.m. Wednesday 9/07/2008, you wrote:

>I have an Epson 2200 and am very happy with the color results I've
>been able to achieve with it, but now I wish to do more black & white
>printing without setting up a wet darkroom.
>
>Browsing earlier messages here there seems to be many who say "don't
>bother" and others who point to exotic software and third party ink
>sets. Maybe it would be easier to set up a darkroom after all :(.
>
>Is there a modestly priced printer for sizes up to 11x14 with which it
>is relatively easy to achieve great B&W results?
>
> 

--
richard smallfield photography
http://smallfield.vze.com
http://www.photoforum-nz.org/gallery/thumbnails.php?pageID=19&showID=50 

   "You know, when I campaigned here in 2000, I said, I want 
   to be a war President. No President wants to be a war 
   President, but I am one."

   George W. Bush


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] New and confused

2008-07-08 by Richard Sintchak

I've been using my 2200 for years now printing either black-only or using
QTR and getting wonderful results.  Both methods easy as pie. I tried the
exotic third-party ink sets and found it more a pain than it was worth for
some incremental gain mostly seen only through a loupe at 1mm viewing
distance.

Black only info:

http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn3b.htm

QTR software:

http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRoverview.html

-- 
Richard S.
San Francisco

My New Photography Website
http://www.lightshadowandtone.com

My Flickr River
http://flickriver.com/photos/rich8155/popular-interesting/

My Commute Photo Blog
http://shootingonthefly.blogspot.com/



On 7/8/08, jthorner <jthorner@...> wrote:
>
>   I have an Epson 2200 and am very happy with the color results I've
> been able to achieve with it, but now I wish to do more black & white
> printing without setting up a wet darkroom.
>
> Browsing earlier messages here there seems to be many who say "don't
> bother" and others who point to exotic software and third party ink
> sets. Maybe it would be easier to set up a darkroom after all :(.
>
> Is there a modestly priced printer for sizes up to 11x14 with which it
> is relatively easy to achieve great B&W results?
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] New and confused

2008-07-08 by Richard Sintchak

>>>>I've been using a 2100 - same as the 2200 but for some reason America
likes to have different names for everything

Yes, I remember the street demonstrations in all the major cities where
masses of Americans were demanding Epson sell the 2100 here under a
different model number.  Those were intense times for sure...

>>>>If you want to use lustre paper you'll have to use spray to get rid of
the bronzing.

Actually using Ilford Gold Fibre Silk or Crane Museo Silver Rag I see nary a
sign of any bronzing.....


On 7/8/08, Richard Smallfield <r.smallfield@...> wrote:
>
> Don't spend any more on printer for now.
>
> I've been using a 2100 - same as the 2200 but for some reason America likes
> to have different names for everything (even Harry Potter books - it's one
> of the world's puzzles for me) ... with Quad Tone Rip ($50) you will get
> excellent BW results with Ultrachrome inks on mat paper.
>
> If you want to use lustre paper you'll have to use spray to get rid of the
> bronzing.
>
> It's a better printer than people give it credit for, with Epson inks.
>
> I print for people who want A3+ exhibition prints and they're all happy.
>
> I do need to upgrade, but more for size than anything. BW prints are
> perfectly good with Quadtone Rip.
>
> Feel free to email me about  it.
>
> Richard
>
> At 08:21 a.m. Wednesday 9/07/2008, you wrote:
>
> >I have an Epson 2200 and am very happy with the color results I've
> >been able to achieve with it, but now I wish to do more black & white
> >printing without setting up a wet darkroom.
> >
> >Browsing earlier messages here there seems to be many who say "don't
> >bother" and others who point to exotic software and third party ink
> >sets. Maybe it would be easier to set up a darkroom after all :(.
> >
> >Is there a modestly priced printer for sizes up to 11x14 with which it
> >is relatively easy to achieve great B&W results?
> >
> >
>
> --
> richard smallfield photography
> http://smallfield.vze.com
> http://www.photoforum-nz.org/gallery/thumbnails.php?pageID=19&showID=50
>
>   "You know, when I campaigned here in 2000, I said, I want
>   to be a war President. No President wants to be a war
>   President, but I am one."
>
>   George W. Bush
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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>
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-- 
Richard S.
San Francisco

My New Photography Website
http://www.lightshadowandtone.com

My Flickr River
http://flickriver.com/photos/rich8155/popular-interesting/

My Commute Photo Blog
http://shootingonthefly.blogspot.com/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] New and confused

2008-07-09 by John Horner

Thank you Richard!   I appreciate the pointers.  Hopefully you have saved me
some time wandering in the wilderness and some cash as well!
John
 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Sintchak




I've been using my 2200 for years now printing either black-only or using
QTR and getting wonderful results. Both methods easy as pie. I tried the
exotic third-party ink sets and found it more a pain than it was worth for
some incremental gain mostly seen only through a loupe at 1mm viewing
distance.

Black only info:

http://www.cjcom. <http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn3b.htm>
net/articles/digiprn3b.htm

QTR software:

http://www.quadtone <http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRoverview.html>
rip.com/html/QTRoverview.html

-- 
Richard S.
San Francisco


.
 
<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=3702311/grpspId=1705019182/msgId
=92603/stime=1215559991/nc1=5008816/nc2=3848621/nc3=4507179> 
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] New and confused

2008-07-09 by Tyler Boley

I'm with Richard on this, download QTR and use it as a demo for a
while. Probably comes with some great canned 2200 curves already, it
being a tried and true printer for years.
You'll learn a lot about B&W ink printing, and may wind up not needing
to spend any more... except you should give Roy the $50 for shareware
at that point... 
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Horner"
<jthorner@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you Richard!   I appreciate the pointers.  Hopefully you have
saved me
> some time wandering in the wilderness and some cash as well!
> John
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Richard
> Sintchak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been using my 2200 for years now printing either black-only or
using
> QTR and getting wonderful results. Both methods easy as pie. I tried the
> exotic third-party ink sets and found it more a pain than it was
worth for
> some incremental gain mostly seen only through a loupe at 1mm viewing
> distance.
> 
> Black only info:
> 
> http://www.cjcom. <http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn3b.htm>
> net/articles/digiprn3b.htm
> 
> QTR software:
> 
> http://www.quadtone <http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRoverview.html>
> rip.com/html/QTRoverview.html
> 
> -- 
> Richard S.
> San Francisco
> 
> 
> .
>  
>
<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=3702311/grpspId=1705019182/msgId
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> =92603/stime=1215559991/nc1=5008816/nc2=3848621/nc3=4507179> 
>  
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] New and confused

2008-07-09 by jthorner

I'm trying the black ink only method first and then will progress to
QTR.  I've downloaded QTR, but it seems that there is yet another
learning curve to climb.  In principle it reminds me of the Vuescan
independent scanner control software I use.  I continue to be amazed
at the quality of shareware specialty software created by highly
talented enthusiasts.  Thank you!

 --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
<tyler@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I'm with Richard on this, download QTR and use it as a demo for a
> while. Probably comes with some great canned 2200 curves already, it
> being a tried and true printer for years.
> You'll learn a lot about B&W ink printing, and may wind up not needing
> to spend any more... except you should give Roy the $50 for shareware
> at that point... 
> Tyler
>

Re: [Digital BW] New and confused

2008-07-09 by Richard Smallfield

Hi,
I think you'll find BO printing a bit dotty if you like darkroom prints.

QTR made simple in ten easy steps:

1. Convert image to QTR Grey Matte profile in Photoshop if you're printing on matte paper. 
2. Save image in a folder called 'QTR Temp'.
3. Open QTR, select the curve nearest to the paper type you're using. Two good matte papers I recommend that have curves in QTR for the 2200 are Entrada Natural and PremierArt Mat BW (though QTR calls it PremierArt Fine Art Matte - don't you wish these companies would just settle on one name? You just about need a degree in taxonomy these days just to know what paper you're using:)   ).
4. In QTR, blend the cool and warm curves for the paper you've chosen to achieve whatever tone you want - ranging from cool to warm. For neutral, start with 50/50%.
5. Dithering - choose 'Ordered' - I don't know what advantage other algorithms offer and ordered works fine.
6. Choose  Speed 'Uni-directional' for best quality (though Bi-directional is pretty good too and fine for proofs).
7. Load the image from the File menu and print out a small proof. You might want to tweak the gamma or ink limit to get a better match to your calibrated monitor.
8. Try again. You  should be able to get a good result quite quickly.
9. Put on Bach's Goldberg Variations, go and make a cup of tea and think 'That was easy'! (1,2)
10. Send Roy Harrington a payment of $50.

Footnotes
(1.) The Bach CD is optional and may not have a discernable effect on print quality, but it works well for me at any rate.
(2.) The cup of tea likewise has little effect on print quality unless you spill it on the print. Of course, silver gelatin prints can be toned with Oolong tea - but these are inkjet prints and toning can be achieved in QTR without needing to spill any tea.

Good luck,
Richard

At 02:56 p.m. Wednesday 9/07/2008, you wrote:
>I'm trying the black ink only method first and then will progress to
>QTR. I've downloaded QTR, but it seems that there is yet another
>learning curve to climb. In principle it reminds me of the Vuescan
>independent scanner control software I use. I continue to be amazed
>at the quality of shareware specialty software created by highly
>talented enthusiasts. Thank you!
>
>--- In <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
><tyler@...> wrote:
>>
>> I'm with Richard on this, download QTR and use it as a demo for a
>> while. Probably comes with some great canned 2200 curves already, it
>> being a tried and true printer for years.
>> You'll learn a lot about B&W ink printing, and may wind up not needing
>> to spend any more... except you should give Roy the $50 for shareware
>> at that point... 
>> Tyler
>> 
>
> 

--
richard smallfield photography
http://smallfield.vze.com
http://www.photoforum-nz.org/gallery/thumbnails.php?pageID=19&showID=50 

   "I am not young enough to know everything." 
   --Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: New and confused

2008-07-15 by pr_roark

> Is there a modestly priced printer for sizes up to 11x14 with which it
> is relatively easy to achieve great B&W results?


I use an old 2200 with Carbon-6 in a SuperJetUSA (eBay) CIS regularly.  
It's hard to find a less expensive or more stable combination.

See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

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