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Digital BW, The Print

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Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-11 by SKID Photography

Daniel Perez wrote:

>  Hello list,
> I have a matted, framed, dry mounted print that is
> going to be auctioned off by a gallery in NYC.  Since
> the print was a mono-print the gallery said it must be
> signed to be auctioned at the reserve price they set.
>
>   Here's the thing..  They already have the framed
> print.  They got it from another gallery that was
> showing it.  I'm in Dallas. I suggested that I open it
> up and sign it when I go up to NYC for the opening
> reception.
>   My question is, where can I sign it?  There is some
> white space around the image on the paper, but the mat
> board covers it.  Anyone sign prints, then cover the
> signature with a mat?  What about signing the back of
> the board? (I usually leave space for this when
> matting, but I didn't think this one would end up
> getting auctioned!)
>
> Your help and suggestions are greatly appreciated!
> Thanks,
> Daniel Perez
> Dallas, TX

Daniel,
You should sign the print itself, whether it shows or not.  The point of signing
the print vs. the mat is that in the future, the mat might be changed and no
longer be part of the image.

By signing the image itself you are 'authenticating' it.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-11 by SKID Photography

Alan Zinn wrote:

>  At 03:19 AM 2/11/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >Daniel Perez wrote:
> >
> >>  Hello list,
> >> I have a matted, framed, dry mounted print that is
> >> going to be auctioned off by a gallery in NYC.  Since
> >> the print was a mono-print the gallery said it must be
> >> signed to be auctioned at the reserve price they set.
> >>
> >>   Here's the thing..  They already have the framed
> >> print.  They got it from another gallery that was
> >> showing it.  I'm in Dallas. I suggested that I open it
> >> up and sign it when I go up to NYC for the opening
> >> reception.
> >>   My question is, where can I sign it?  There is some
> >> white space around the image on the paper, but the mat
> >> board covers it.  Anyone sign prints, then cover the
> >> signature with a mat?  What about signing the back of
> >> the board? (I usually leave space for this when
> >> matting, but I didn't think this one would end up
> >> getting auctioned!)
> >>
> >> Your help and suggestions are greatly appreciated!
> >> Thanks,
> >> Daniel Perez
> >> Dallas, TX
> >
> >Daniel,
> >You should sign the print itself, whether it shows or not.  The point of
> signing
> >the print vs. the mat is that in the future, the mat might be changed and no
> >longer be part of the image.
> >
> >By signing the image itself you are 'authenticating' it.
> >
> >Harvey Ferdschneider
> >partner, SKID Photography, NYC
> >
> >
> Guys,
> That depends on how the print is mounted. I would never sign the face of a
> mounted print. Worse-case I might relent and sign the rebate with a pen. I
> speak from long experience having known people who make a living selling
> editions of mounted prints. You will see few photographs in museums, I
> believe, with writing on the front. Most photogs have a rubber stamp for the
> back of the mat. You could just sign the back or make a label to glue to the
> back.  On the other hand, I have seen editions signed with, would you
> believe, metallic ink on the face of the print!  But YOU would't do that,
> would you?
>
> AZ

My point about signing the print itself (front or back), but actually 'signing'
it, is purely a 'marketing' concept.

There has been a *huge* scandal in the fine art photo world recently over Lewis
Hine photos.  Someone who had access to Hine's negative made a bunch of prints
that were sold as authentic (as in 'made under Hine's direct supervision') when
in fact they were not.

The only difference between the two is price.  The 'authentic' Hine images sell
for thousands of dollars each, and mere 'copies' sell for hundreds of dollars.

In my opinion, it is a marketing 'thing', and you are being asked by a 'gallery'
to authenticate your own print by signing it, so that they can sell it for more
money (remember the 'reserve' they mentioned?).

And while eyes, signatures can be faked, it's harder to to do then fake a
'stamp' or no mark at all.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-11 by Martin Wesley

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "SKID Photography" <skid@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...



(snip)
>
> Daniel,
> You should sign the print itself, whether it shows or not.  The point of
signing
> the print vs. the mat is that in the future, the mat might be changed and
no
> longer be part of the image.
>
> By signing the image itself you are 'authenticating' it.
>
> Harvey Ferdschneider
> partner, SKID Photography, NYC
>

Daniel,

I agree with Harvey and would suggest that in the future you mat your prints
so the white border, with your signature, can be seen.

As well as authenticating the print, a visible signature is an advertising
issue as well. If one of your prints is sold and displayed somewhere that is
not a museum or gallery with a little identifying card, the only chance the
viewer may have of knowing the name of the photographer is by reading his
signature. So make it visible and legible (I have a hard time with the
legible part!)!

Martin

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-11 by Daniel Perez

No, I don't sign with metallic ink(I've seen it as
well).  Prob going to use pencil.  What do you guys
usually use? 
 Can you use a pencil on RC paper, though?  This print
is a LightJet print on RC paper made before I got into
archival b&w inkjet or geeecleee;) It was printed (and
framed) a year and a half ago.  I might have to use
black pen. Gasp!
 
  Daniel


--- Alan Zinn <AZinn@...> wrote:

>On the other hand, I have seen editions
> signed with, would you
> believe, metallic ink on the face of the print!  But
> YOU would't do that,
> would you?
> 
> AZ
>

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Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-11 by Steadman Uhlich

Blood, Sweat, or Tears...or even ink.

Steadman

(SNIP)
  What do you guys
  usually use? 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-11 by Todd Flashner

on 2/11/02 3:04 PM, Daniel Perez wrote:

> Can you use a pencil on RC paper, though?  This print
> is a LightJet print on RC paper made before I got into
> archival b&w inkjet or geeecleee;) It was printed (and
> framed) a year and a half ago.  I might have to use
> black pen. Gasp!


I think I'd try a Rapidograph with India Ink. I use it to write info on film
base.

Todd

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-11 by Alan Zinn

At 03:19 AM 2/11/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Daniel Perez wrote:
>
>>  Hello list,
>> I have a matted, framed, dry mounted print that is
>> going to be auctioned off by a gallery in NYC.  Since
>> the print was a mono-print the gallery said it must be
>> signed to be auctioned at the reserve price they set.
>>
>>   Here's the thing..  They already have the framed
>> print.  They got it from another gallery that was
>> showing it.  I'm in Dallas. I suggested that I open it
>> up and sign it when I go up to NYC for the opening
>> reception.
>>   My question is, where can I sign it?  There is some
>> white space around the image on the paper, but the mat
>> board covers it.  Anyone sign prints, then cover the
>> signature with a mat?  What about signing the back of
>> the board? (I usually leave space for this when
>> matting, but I didn't think this one would end up
>> getting auctioned!)
>>
>> Your help and suggestions are greatly appreciated!
>> Thanks,
>> Daniel Perez
>> Dallas, TX
>
>Daniel,
>You should sign the print itself, whether it shows or not.  The point of
signing
>the print vs. the mat is that in the future, the mat might be changed and no
>longer be part of the image.
>
>By signing the image itself you are 'authenticating' it.
>
>Harvey Ferdschneider
>partner, SKID Photography, NYC
>
>
Guys,
That depends on how the print is mounted. I would never sign the face of a
mounted print. Worse-case I might relent and sign the rebate with a pen. I
speak from long experience having known people who make a living selling
editions of mounted prints. You will see few photographs in museums, I
believe, with writing on the front. Most photogs have a rubber stamp for the
back of the mat. You could just sign the back or make a label to glue to the
back.  On the other hand, I have seen editions signed with, would you
believe, metallic ink on the face of the print!  But YOU would't do that,
would you?

AZ
Maker of Lookaround panoramic camera.

www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/8874/
         or
keyword.com lookaround

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-11 by SKID Photography

Daniel,
I second Todd's suggestion of India Ink, it's archival.  But any good art supply
store should be able to steer you to archival inks and pens.  There are
certainly enough of them in NYC.  ;-)

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography

>  No, I don't sign with metallic ink(I've seen it as
> well).  Prob going to use pencil.  What do you guys
> usually use?
> Can you use a pencil on RC paper, though?  This print
> is a LightJet print on RC paper made before I got into
> archival b&w inkjet or geeecleee;) It was printed (and
> framed) a year and a half ago.  I might have to use
> black pen. Gasp!
>
>   Daniel
>
>
> --- Alan Zinn <AZinn@...> wrote:
>
> >On the other hand, I have seen editions
> > signed with, would you
> > believe, metallic ink on the face of the print!  But
> > YOU would't do that,
> > would you?
> >
> > AZ
> >
>
> __________________________________________________


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-11 by Jerry Olson

You can use a Stabilo pencil to sign any print. Available at most art
stores. VERY soft lead!

Jerry

Daniel Perez wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
>  No, I don't sign with metallic ink(I've seen it as
> well).  Prob going to use pencil.  What do you guys
> usually use?
>  Can you use a pencil on RC paper, though?  This print
> is a LightJet print on RC paper made before I got into
> archival b&w inkjet or geeecleee;) It was printed (and
> framed) a year and a half ago.  I might have to use
> black pen. Gasp!
> 
>   Daniel
> 
> --- Alan Zinn <AZinn@...> wrote:
> 
> >On the other hand, I have seen editions
> > signed with, would you
> > believe, metallic ink on the face of the print!  But
> > YOU would't do that,
> > would you?
> >
> > AZ
> >
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
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> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
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> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-11 by SKID Photography

Jerry,
We use Stabilos pencils for our matte surface prints, but it has been our
experience that they do not give acceptable results on glossy type substrates.
In those cases we use ink.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC

>  You can use a Stabilo pencil to sign any print. Available at most art
> stores. VERY soft lead!
>
> Jerry
>
> Daniel Perez wrote:
> >
> >  No, I don't sign with metallic ink(I've seen it as
> > well).  Prob going to use pencil.  What do you guys
> > usually use?
> >  Can you use a pencil on RC paper, though?  This print
> > is a LightJet print on RC paper made before I got into
> > archival b&w inkjet or geeecleee;) It was printed (and
> > framed) a year and a half ago.  I might have to use
> > black pen. Gasp!
> >
> >   Daniel
> >
> > --- Alan Zinn <AZinn@...> wrote:
> >
> > >On the other hand, I have seen editions
> > > signed with, would you
> > > believe, metallic ink on the face of the print!  But
> > > YOU would't do that,
> > > would you?
> > >
> > > AZ
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-11 by Daniel Perez

Thanks for the tips guys.  I've got plenty of
sharpies and rapidographs from my architecture days in
school.  Also some Staedtler pigment liner pens.  I'll
see what works best.
 If anyone is interested, the show is of selected
works from the 8th & 9th New York Digital Salons
presented by ArtLink with a simultaneous auction
through Sotheby's.  The Opening is next month on the
7th @ 6pm. ArtLink Gallery, 323 W. 39th st. 5th floor.
 It's all digital work (or art that utilized a
computer in some phase of it's creation).  There
should be some inkjet, lightjet and iris prints,
including image transfers and who knows what else. 
Should be interesting either way.
 I'll post the date again as the show nears.

 Daniel

--- Alan Zinn <AZinn@...> wrote:
> At 12:04 PM 2/11/2002 -0800, you wrote:
> > No, I don't sign with metallic ink(I've seen it as
> >well).  Prob going to use pencil.  What do you guys
> >usually use? 
> > Can you use a pencil on RC paper, though?  This
> print
> >is a LightJet print on RC paper made before I got
> into
> >archival b&w inkjet or geeecleee;) It was printed
> (and
> >framed) a year and a half ago.  I might have to use
> >black pen. Gasp!
> > 
> 
> Daniel,
> 
> A fine-point black "Sharpie" pen will write on
> anything. 
> My policy generally is not to sign unless asked to
> by the purchaser. But
> Harvey is probably right - it can't hurt to have
> your name out there. btw
> congratulations for getting your work in the show.
> 
> AZ
> Maker of Lookaround panoramic camera.
> 



__________________________________________________
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-12 by Alan Zinn

At 12:04 PM 2/11/2002 -0800, you wrote:
> No, I don't sign with metallic ink(I've seen it as
>well).  Prob going to use pencil.  What do you guys
>usually use? 
> Can you use a pencil on RC paper, though?  This print
>is a LightJet print on RC paper made before I got into
>archival b&w inkjet or geeecleee;) It was printed (and
>framed) a year and a half ago.  I might have to use
>black pen. Gasp!
> 

Daniel,

A fine-point black "Sharpie" pen will write on anything. 
My policy generally is not to sign unless asked to by the purchaser. But
Harvey is probably right - it can't hurt to have your name out there. btw
congratulations for getting your work in the show.

AZ
Maker of Lookaround panoramic camera.

www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/8874/
         or
keyword.com lookaround

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-12 by James E. Martz

At 02:04 PM 2/11/2002 -0600, Steadman wrote:
>Blood, Sweat, or Tears...or even ink.

If it's gonna be "geeecleee", maybe you should sign it with urine ;-)



****************
James E. Martz
Milan, OH
jemartz@...
*****************

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-12 by SKID Photography

Michael Kravit wrote:

>  Over the past 6 months I purchaed two silver prints. One by Michael Kennerly
> and by mark Klett. Both are signed differently. Mark Klett writes the
> title,date and his signature in silver ink along the bottom of the print in
> the image area. Much like the old photographers of the early 1800's. He also
> signs and dates the back of the print in pencil.  Michael Kennerly signed
> his print on the front bottom right on the mounting board.
>
> Mike
>

Mike,
Was the Kennerly 'dry mounted' to the mounting board?

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-12 by SKID Photography

Michael,
Well, of course it's just my opinion.  :-)

And unless the 'art police are reinstated', it will (and should) always be that
way.  There is *never* a right or wrong, just opinions.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC

>  Harvey,
>
> With all due respect, ther are many ways to sign a photographic print. They
> way you sugggest is surely an accptable well used technique, but I believe
> that it is not the only way. To tell some one that they "should" sign it in
> a certain way is your opinion, although valid, as I noted not the only way.
>
> Mike
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "SKID Photography" <skid@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 2:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...
>
>
> > Daniel Perez wrote:
> >
> > >  Hello list,
> > > I have a matted, framed, dry mounted print that is
> > > going to be auctioned off by a gallery in NYC.  Since
> > > the print was a mono-print the gallery said it must be
> > > signed to be auctioned at the reserve price they set.
> > >
> > >   Here's the thing..  They already have the framed
> > > print.  They got it from another gallery that was
> > > showing it.  I'm in Dallas. I suggested that I open it
> > > up and sign it when I go up to NYC for the opening
> > > reception.
> > >   My question is, where can I sign it?  There is some
> > > white space around the image on the paper, but the mat
> > > board covers it.  Anyone sign prints, then cover the
> > > signature with a mat?  What about signing the back of
> > > the board? (I usually leave space for this when
> > > matting, but I didn't think this one would end up
> > > getting auctioned!)
> > >
> > > Your help and suggestions are greatly appreciated!
> > > Thanks,
> > > Daniel Perez
> > > Dallas, TX
> >
> > Daniel,
> > You should sign the print itself, whether it shows or not.  The point of
> signing
> > the print vs. the mat is that in the future, the mat might be changed and
> no
> > longer be part of the image.
> >
> > By signing the image itself you are 'authenticating' it.
> >
> > Harvey Ferdschneider
> > partner, SKID Photography, NYC
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-12 by SKID Photography

Michael,
Then we are in compete agreement.  It never occurred to me that anyone was still
dry mounting images because of the conservation problems that might occur.  But
for all intents and purposes, the Kennerly print is signed on the 'paper'
itself, as it was dry mounted and is now 'one' with the mounting board..

Perhaps I did not make myself clear, on my previous post.  What I was trying to
get across was the importance of having an identifiable unique 'mark', (usually
a signature) on the same piece of paper that the image will *always* be attached
to.  It does not matter, as far as I am concerned if the print is signed on the
'live image area' (the picture if you will), on the substrate border, or the
back of the print.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC

>  Harvey,
>
> Yes, Michael Kennerly dry mounted his print on Museum Board.
>
> Mike
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "SKID Photography" <skid@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 8:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...
>
>
> > Michael Kravit wrote:
> >
> > >  Over the past 6 months I purchaed two silver prints. One by Michael
> Kennerly
> > > and by mark Klett. Both are signed differently. Mark Klett writes the
> > > title,date and his signature in silver ink along the bottom of the print
> in
> > > the image area. Much like the old photographers of the early 1800's. He
> also
> > > signs and dates the back of the print in pencil.  Michael Kennerly
> signed
> > > his print on the front bottom right on the mounting board.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> >
> > Mike,
> > Was the Kennerly 'dry mounted' to the mounting board?
> >
> > Harvey Ferdschneider
> > partner, SKID Photography, NYC
> >


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-12 by Michael Kravit

Harvey,

With all due respect, ther are many ways to sign a photographic print. They
way you sugggest is surely an accptable well used technique, but I believe
that it is not the only way. To tell some one that they "should" sign it in
a certain way is your opinion, although valid, as I noted not the only way.

Mike


----- Original Message -----
From: "SKID Photography" <skid@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...


> Daniel Perez wrote:
>
> >  Hello list,
> > I have a matted, framed, dry mounted print that is
> > going to be auctioned off by a gallery in NYC.  Since
> > the print was a mono-print the gallery said it must be
> > signed to be auctioned at the reserve price they set.
> >
> >   Here's the thing..  They already have the framed
> > print.  They got it from another gallery that was
> > showing it.  I'm in Dallas. I suggested that I open it
> > up and sign it when I go up to NYC for the opening
> > reception.
> >   My question is, where can I sign it?  There is some
> > white space around the image on the paper, but the mat
> > board covers it.  Anyone sign prints, then cover the
> > signature with a mat?  What about signing the back of
> > the board? (I usually leave space for this when
> > matting, but I didn't think this one would end up
> > getting auctioned!)
> >
> > Your help and suggestions are greatly appreciated!
> > Thanks,
> > Daniel Perez
> > Dallas, TX
>
> Daniel,
> You should sign the print itself, whether it shows or not.  The point of
signing
> the print vs. the mat is that in the future, the mat might be changed and
no
> longer be part of the image.
>
> By signing the image itself you are 'authenticating' it.
>
> Harvey Ferdschneider
> partner, SKID Photography, NYC
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-12 by Michael Kravit

Over the past 6 months I purchaed two silver prints. One by Michael Kennerly
and by mark Klett. Both are signed differently. Mark Klett writes the
title,date and his signature in silver ink along the bottom of the print in
the image area. Much like the old photographers of the early 1800's. He also
signs and dates the back of the print in pencil.  Michael Kennerly signed
his print on the front bottom right on the mounting board.

Mike

Re: Signing a matted print (& mounting)...

2002-02-12 by lyonscox

In my microscopic experience about signing and/or mounting 
techniques.  

Historians are looking for consistency and changes.
It helps them date pieces.

>It never occurred to me that anyone was still dry mounting images 
>because of the conservation problems that might occur.

I drymount certain formats, especially contact prints and will 
continue to do so.  

This "not dry mounting" thing is absolutely the equivalent in 
argument to archival inks.  It's the archivists pre-occupation.  I 
know personally of a museum curator suggesting removing a silver 
image from a dry mount.  To do so would have DESTROYED the value of 
the artwork from an investment standpoint.  This was an educated 
individual in conservation, NOT in the particular PHOTOGRAPHERS 
habits.  The particulars are more important in the long run.

Edward Weston's work is a good example.  He used a variety of backing 
boards which, therefore, are in various states.  However the shellac 
used to drymount turns out to have been THE BEST barrier from that 
era, so prints can be in fantastic condition and just need the 
attention of a good framer.

A note on signing...again consitency and changes are what becomes 
noted.  Atget rarely, if ever, signed things.  He was not an artist.  
Weston signed front and/or back.  Frederick Sommer for years didn't 
sign images (never on the front, it distracts) until they were to 
leave the house - therefore something unsigned gets further 
examination since his copy prints were so beautiful and were more 
often kept than returned (much to his dissatisfaction).

Cleavis

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-12 by Michael Kravit

Harvey,

Yes, Michael Kennerly dry mounted his print on Museum Board.

Mike


----- Original Message -----
From: "SKID Photography" <skid@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...


> Michael Kravit wrote:
>
> >  Over the past 6 months I purchaed two silver prints. One by Michael
Kennerly
> > and by mark Klett. Both are signed differently. Mark Klett writes the
> > title,date and his signature in silver ink along the bottom of the print
in
> > the image area. Much like the old photographers of the early 1800's. He
also
> > signs and dates the back of the print in pencil.  Michael Kennerly
signed
> > his print on the front bottom right on the mounting board.
> >
> > Mike
> >
>
> Mike,
> Was the Kennerly 'dry mounted' to the mounting board?
>
> Harvey Ferdschneider
> partner, SKID Photography, NYC
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-12 by Jerry Olson

I used to sign glossy prints with a stabilo years ago. It worked fine
then, what do you find not acceptable? Unless they changed the
composition of the pencil....

Jerry



SKID Photography wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Jerry,
> We use Stabilos pencils for our matte surface prints, but it has been our
> experience that they do not give acceptable results on glossy type substrates.
> In those cases we use ink.
> 
> Harvey Ferdschneider
> partner, SKID Photography, NYC
> 
> >  You can use a Stabilo pencil to sign any print. Available at most art
> > stores. VERY soft lead!
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > Daniel Perez wrote:
> > >
> > >  No, I don't sign with metallic ink(I've seen it as
> > > well).  Prob going to use pencil.  What do you guys
> > > usually use?
> > >  Can you use a pencil on RC paper, though?  This print
> > > is a LightJet print on RC paper made before I got into
> > > archival b&w inkjet or geeecleee;) It was printed (and
> > > framed) a year and a half ago.  I might have to use
> > > black pen. Gasp!
> > >
> > >   Daniel
> > >
> > > --- Alan Zinn <AZinn@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > >On the other hand, I have seen editions
> > > > signed with, would you
> > > > believe, metallic ink on the face of the print!  But
> > > > YOU would't do that,
> > > > would you?
> > > >
> > > > AZ
> >
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
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Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-12 by SKID Photography

Jerry,
I never found that the pencil put down an acceptable amount of lead on the
glossy prints for me.  Perhaps it's because I'm left handed and I 'push' my
pencils, and cannot put much pressure without tearing the surface.

This is not a big deal.  Idid not mean to imply that there was something *wrong*
with a pencil on a glossy surface....It just did not work for me.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC


>  I used to sign glossy prints with a stabilo years ago. It worked fine
> then, what do you find not acceptable? Unless they changed the
> composition of the pencil....
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> SKID Photography wrote:
> >
> > Jerry,
> > We use Stabilos pencils for our matte surface prints, but it has been our
> > experience that they do not give acceptable results on glossy type
> substrates.
> > In those cases we use ink.
> >
> > Harvey Ferdschneider
> > partner, SKID Photography, NYC
> >
> > >  You can use a Stabilo pencil to sign any print. Available at most art
> > > stores. VERY soft lead!
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > > Daniel Perez wrote:
> > > >
> > > >  No, I don't sign with metallic ink(I've seen it as
> > > > well).  Prob going to use pencil.  What do you guys
> > > > usually use?
> > > >  Can you use a pencil on RC paper, though?  This print
> > > > is a LightJet print on RC paper made before I got into
> > > > archival b&w inkjet or geeecleee;) It was printed (and
> > > > framed) a year and a half ago.  I might have to use
> > > > black pen. Gasp!
> > > >
> > > >   Daniel
> > > >
> > > > --- Alan Zinn <AZinn@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >On the other hand, I have seen editions
> > > > > signed with, would you
> > > > > believe, metallic ink on the face of the print!  But
> > > > > YOU would't do that,
> > > > > would you?
> > > > >
> > > > > AZ
> > >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-12 by Todd Flashner

Wouldn't graphite (or whatever that pencils "lead" is) be prone to smearing
on a glossy surface?

Todd
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Jerry,
> I never found that the pencil put down an acceptable amount of lead on the
> glossy prints for me.  Perhaps it's because I'm left handed and I 'push' my
> pencils, and cannot put much pressure without tearing the surface.
> 
> This is not a big deal.  Idid not mean to imply that there was something
> *wrong*
> with a pencil on a glossy surface....It just did not work for me.
> 
> Harvey Ferdschneider
> partner, SKID Photography, NYC
> 
> 
>> I used to sign glossy prints with a stabilo years ago. It worked fine
>> then, what do you find not acceptable? Unless they changed the
>> composition of the pencil....
>> 
>> Jerry
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> SKID Photography wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jerry,
>>> We use Stabilos pencils for our matte surface prints, but it has been our
>>> experience that they do not give acceptable results on glossy type
>> substrates.
>>> In those cases we use ink.
>>> 
>>> Harvey Ferdschneider
>>> partner, SKID Photography, NYC
>>> 
>>>> You can use a Stabilo pencil to sign any print. Available at most art
>>>> stores. VERY soft lead!
>>>> 
>>>> Jerry
>>>> 
>>>> Daniel Perez wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> No, I don't sign with metallic ink(I've seen it as
>>>>> well).  Prob going to use pencil.  What do you guys
>>>>> usually use?
>>>>> Can you use a pencil on RC paper, though?  This print
>>>>> is a LightJet print on RC paper made before I got into
>>>>> archival b&w inkjet or geeecleee;) It was printed (and
>>>>> framed) a year and a half ago.  I might have to use
>>>>> black pen. Gasp!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Daniel
>>>>> 
>>>>> --- Alan Zinn <AZinn@...> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On the other hand, I have seen editions
>>>>>> signed with, would you
>>>>>> believe, metallic ink on the face of the print!  But
>>>>>> YOU would't do that,
>>>>>> would you?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> AZ
>>>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
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Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-13 by Michael Kravit

From: <daschkenas@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Show quoted textHide quoted text
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...


> Michael, are you using buffered or unbuffered Westminster board?
> David Aschkenas

David,

I use Westminster 100% Cotton Fiber board. It is buffered with calcium
carbonate to a pH of 8.0.

Mike

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-13 by Michael Kravit

David,

Yes it was. I went through two boxes of Kennerly prints to select mine. I
looked at almost 80 prints. They were almost all 8x8 and all were over
matted and dry mounted on Westminster board.


Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: <DaMoenk@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...


> Mike,
>
> Was the Kennerly print dry mounted?
>
> David
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Re: Signing a matted print...

2002-02-13 by dellaellingson

Daniel,

Why don't you make it a habit of signing your prints so that in the
future this sort of thing does not happen again. You should become in
the habit of signing your works in a similar manner. These habits of
signing will enable people to authenticate your work one day when
there is a question in regards to it authenticity. Practice on reject
prints a manner of signature. Decide how you date. Decide if you
title the work. Then stick to it!


-Della


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., SKID Photography
<skid@b...> wrote:
> Daniel Perez wrote:
> 
> >  Hello list,
> > I have a matted, framed, dry mounted print that is
> > going to be auctioned off by a gallery in NYC.  Since
> > the print was a mono-print the gallery said it must be
> > signed to be auctioned at the reserve price they set.
> >
> >   Here's the thing..  They already have the framed
> > print.  They got it from another gallery that was
> > showing it.  I'm in Dallas. I suggested that I open it
> > up and sign it when I go up to NYC for the opening
> > reception.
> >   My question is, where can I sign it?  There is some
> > white space around the image on the paper, but the mat
> > board covers it.  Anyone sign prints, then cover the
> > signature with a mat?  What about signing the back of
> > the board? (I usually leave space for this when
> > matting, but I didn't think this one would end up
> > getting auctioned!)
> >
> > Your help and suggestions are greatly appreciated!
> > Thanks,
> > Daniel Perez
> > Dallas, TX
> 
> Daniel,
> You should sign the print itself, whether it shows or not.  The
point of signing
> the print vs. the mat is that in the future, the mat might be
changed and no
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> longer be part of the image.
> 
> By signing the image itself you are 'authenticating' it.
> 
> Harvey Ferdschneider
> partner, SKID Photography, NYC
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Signing a matted print...

2002-02-13 by Daniel Perez

I do sign the prints I sell.  
 This print was originally just part of a traveling
exhibition through Spain and then it was supposed to
get back to me.  Then some gallery sees it and next
thing I know it's being auctioned on Sotheby's.
 That's how I got into this whole mess, I never
intended, er, expected it to be sold, so I didn't sign
it. 
 But perhaps it's a lesson that I should sign all my
exhibited prints, not just the ones I sell..

 Daniel



--- dellaellingson <dellaellingson@...> wrote:
> Daniel,
> 
> Why don't you make it a habit of signing your prints
> so that in the
> future this sort of thing does not happen again. You
> should become in
> the habit of signing your works in a similar manner.
> These habits of
> signing will enable people to authenticate your work
> one day when
> there is a question in regards to it authenticity.
> Practice on reject
> prints a manner of signature. Decide how you date.
> Decide if you
> title the work. Then stick to it!
> 
> 
> -Della
> 
> 


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Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-13 by DaMoenk@aol.com

Mike,
Thanks for the reply. 

Pardon my newbie question, but what is over matting?
David


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...

2002-02-14 by Michael Kravit

David,

An over mat is a window mat (A mat with a hole cut to frame the image) that
is attached to a mounting board with a hinged spine made of archival linen
tape or some other archival material.

Mike


----- Original Message -----
From: <DaMoenk@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Signing a matted print...


> Mike,
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> Pardon my newbie question, but what is over matting?
> David
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
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> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Signing a matted print...

2002-02-14 by Michael Kravit

Mark planned a trip about a year ago to photograph Nevada off of Highway 50.
We are meeting near Salt lake and will end up in Reno. We are camping along
the way and yes, we will be shooting some Type 55 film. Mark has been doing
some 6x7 stuff with a Mamiya 7, but as far I know he still shoots Type 55. I
have a case of it coming with me.

Mike
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: <grdglass@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 7:22 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Signing a matted print...


> Mike,
>
> Sounds great.  What is the Highway 50 expedition?  Does he still use PN
55?

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