Digital BW, The Print

I had successfully used black and white profiles created with QTR-Create-ICC.exe printing from Photoshop CS4 on Vista 64 PC.

Now I'm trying to do same same from Lightroom 2.3 64 but when I open list of profiles and check "show monitor profiles" I don't see my bw profiles.

Color profiles created with eye-one match3 are visible.

Any ideas what's wrong?

Thanks, Jacob

> >>I had successfully used black and white profiles created with QTR- 
> Create-ICC.exe printing from Photoshop CS4 on Vista 64 PC.
>
> Now I'm trying to do same same from Lightroom 2.3 64 but when I open  
> list of profiles and check "show monitor profiles" I don't see my bw  
> profiles.

Lightroom 2:   Print / Print Job / Color Management / Other / ...    
check the ones you want to appear.

Is that what you're doing?  It works for me when I add profiles,  
although I am working on a Mac.

Myron



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jacob,

I have exactly the same problem, and have not yet found a solution.  Every other ICC I install works just fine, but not the black and white ones.  (Lightroom 2.3 and Vista 64, same as you)

I've had this problem since lightroom 2.0, so it doesn't seem to be a 2.3 bug.

-Evan-

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jacob" <flashinet@...> wrote:

>
> I had successfully used black and white profiles created with QTR-Create-ICC.exe printing from Photoshop CS4 on Vista 64 PC.
> 
> Now I'm trying to do same same from Lightroom 2.3 64 but when I open list of profiles and check "show monitor profiles" I don't see my bw profiles.
> 
> Color profiles created with eye-one match3 are visible.
> 
> Any ideas what's wrong?
> 
> Thanks, Jacob
>

The problem could be due to the fact that Lightroom does not have a B&W
colorspace even when you do  B&W conversion.  Everything stays in the
specified RGB colorspace.  I don't know how it would map to a B&W output
profile..

 

Regards,

George

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of evanmc
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:34 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: black and white profiles doesn't show up in
Lightroom

 






Jacob,

I have exactly the same problem, and have not yet found a solution. Every
other ICC I install works just fine, but not the black and white ones.
(Lightroom 2.3 and Vista 64, same as you)

I've had this problem since lightroom 2.0, so it doesn't seem to be a 2.3
bug.

-Evan-

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jacob"
<flashinet@...> wrote:
>
> I had successfully used black and white profiles created with
QTR-Create-ICC.exe printing from Photoshop CS4 on Vista 64 PC.
> 
> Now I'm trying to do same same from Lightroom 2.3 64 but when I open list
of profiles and check "show monitor profiles" I don't see my bw profiles.
> 
> Color profiles created with eye-one match3 are visible.
> 
> Any ideas what's wrong?
> 
> Thanks, Jacob
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pretty sure that's the deal. If you still have your measurement text files, frop them on "QTR-Create-ICC-RGB" instead and see if Lightroom sees the resulting rgb profiles.
Tyler
http://www.custom-digital.com/

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "George Pappas" <george@...> wrote:

>
> The problem could be due to the fact that Lightroom does not have a B&W
> colorspace even when you do  B&W conversion.  Everything stays in the
> specified RGB colorspace.  I don't know how it would map to a B&W output
> profile..
> 
>  
> 
> Regards,
> 
> George
> 
>  
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of evanmc
> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:34 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: black and white profiles doesn't show up in
> Lightroom
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jacob,
> 
> I have exactly the same problem, and have not yet found a solution. Every
> other ICC I install works just fine, but not the black and white ones.
> (Lightroom 2.3 and Vista 64, same as you)
> 
> I've had this problem since lightroom 2.0, so it doesn't seem to be a 2.3
> bug.
> 
> -Evan-
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jacob"
> <flashinet@> wrote:
> >
> > I had successfully used black and white profiles created with
> QTR-Create-ICC.exe printing from Photoshop CS4 on Vista 64 PC.
> > 
> > Now I'm trying to do same same from Lightroom 2.3 64 but when I open list
> of profiles and check "show monitor profiles" I don't see my bw profiles.
> > 
> > Color profiles created with eye-one match3 are visible.
> > 
> > Any ideas what's wrong?
> > 
> > Thanks, Jacob
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Yes, it worked.
Does it mean that "QTR-Create-ICC.exe" automatically converts image from RGB  to grayscale mode?
Does anybody try to create profile for ABW with profilemaker? Did it work for Lightroom?



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote:

>
> pretty sure that's the deal. If you still have your measurement text files, frop them on "QTR-Create-ICC-RGB" instead and see if Lightroom sees the resulting rgb profiles.
> Tyler
> http://www.custom-digital.com/
>

profilemaker will make profiles that Lightroom can utilize, since it makes RGB profiles. QTR Create ICC tools are the sole single channel luminance correction only profile making tools out there.
Your profilemaker profile may also do some decent luminance correction, but it will be primarily mapping one rgb color space to another, much of that work unnecessary to the task at hand since ABW will turn it to sigle channel anyway. In fact, I've seen mixed info on various version's of Adobe, Epson, and OS, that may limit the ability to even select an rgb profile on the way out to the ABW driver ...

Regarding the conversion question, selection of any single channel profile in the conversion chain converts the file from rgb to grayscale, no matter what the driver selections down the line are. So yes, a normal non-rgb created qtr profile conversion changes the file to grayscale.

The QTR rgb tools create an actual rgb profile however, not single channel grayscale, but no color remapping is done to best match one color sapce to another in this instance, it simply creates an rgb profile with 3 equal channels, with the desired luminance correction and preview, for workflows that require an rgb data path, and think Qimage is like this as well?

Hope that helps.
Tyler
http://www.custom-digital.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jacob" <flashinet@...> wrote:

>
> Yes, it worked.
> Does it mean that "QTR-Create-ICC.exe" automatically converts image from RGB  to grayscale mode?
> Does anybody try to create profile for ABW with profilemaker? Did it work for Lightroom?
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@> wrote:
> >
> > pretty sure that's the deal. If you still have your measurement text files, frop them on "QTR-Create-ICC-RGB" instead and see if Lightroom sees the resulting rgb profiles.
> > Tyler
> > http://www.custom-digital.com/
> >
>

Jacob schreef:
> Yes, it worked.
> Does it mean that "QTR-Create-ICC.exe" automatically converts image from RGB  to grayscale mode?
> Does anybody try to create profile for ABW with profilemaker? Did it work for Lightroom?

As I understand it:

No, but it will convert both greyscale and  neutral R=G=B to a changed 
tonal curve neutral R=G=B image and depending on the printer driver used 
the driver will accept the R=G=B data as it is (ABW mode) or convert it 
on the fly to greyscale (QTR driver) and in both cases make a B&W print.

With the greyscale ICC profile  in for example Photoshop the same 
happens for both types but the outcome is then a changed tonal curve 
greyscale image that will be converted to R=G=B data or not in the last 
step, again depending on what the printer driver likes to have.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Tyler Boley schreef:

>  with the desired luminance correction and preview, for workflows that require an rgb data path, and think Qimage is like this as well?

Correct Qimage only knows an RGB path. But it will convert greyscale 
data to neutral R=G=B on the fly like QTR does the opposite on the fly. 
That is what probably all the drivers do that do not know more paths 
like some RIPs have. With QTR ICC profiles the greyscale or the RGB 
version I prefer to do the conversion in Photoshop instead of Qimage, 
Roy once discussed it with Mike Chaney of Qimage and the man Marty?of 
LCMS that Qimage uses for its color management, so the RGB type profile 
should work but I have seen shifts that were not normal. Printing from 
Picture Window Pro with QTR profiles was even worse.

I'm not familiar with Lightroom but I would advise to test it thoroughly 
too by comparing targets printed through PS and LR. As I understand it 
Lightroom has Prophoto as its basic color space, a 1.8 Gamma type. 
Whether everything goes through an extra conversion as a result of that 
is something I'm curious about. If so16 bit may be a better choice than 
8 bit. There were some rudimentary CM controls on the printing output in 
early versions like BPC missing or automatically applied. I have no 
complaints about Qimage's CM of color but with less often used B&W CM 
workflows there just isn't enough discussion to get it on the rails, 
might be the same for Lightroom.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Why is one printing out of Lightroom in the first place, as apposed to the Q-Image interface?

john

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> wrote:
>
> Why is one printing out of Lightroom in the first place, as apposed to the Q-Image interface?
> 
> john
>

becoming the norm, problematic in some ways, but many are simply getting on board...
Tyler