Digital BW, The Print

I need some advice. My 6 year old computer (WinXP) just crashed and I need a new one.  It was getting slow anyway. I'd consider a Mac, but all my software is PC and I have never even used a Mac (they also seem very expensive). I have a limited budget (like to keep it under $2000 if possible. I have monitors and external USB hard drives for backup). I don't need a "state of the art screamer" but I do need a faster, more powerful machine to comfortably process 21 MB RAW 5DmkII files and one that works well with my Canon 6100 printer. I figure 200-300 MB files will be a routine thing in Photoshop (currenty using PSCS2 and LR2.3) Color management MUST work properly.

I've never used Vista and am a bit gun shy. I have heard there are problems with its ability to retain monitor calibration data, etc, and that color management may be an issue. I have also read about problems getting the Canon drivers and plugins working. A new machine will have some flavor of Vista, but which one? And is XP compatibility mode part of the standard Vista system? Does Vista require any new software or can I use my old Windows XP software?

Suggestions on computer make, deals, CPU, amount and type of RAM, hard drive size and type, video card, etc, would be appreciated. I'd like the video card to have two connections and two video lookup tables for my two Samsung monitors. Any other advice would be appreciated. I'm way out of touch on what to buy and don't want to make a big mistake.

Thank You,

Lou Dina

 

p.s. I have posted this email to a few other forums.  Thanks for understanding.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Louis Dina" <lou@...> wrote:
>
> I need some advice. My 6 year old computer (WinXP) just crashed and I need a new one.  It was getting slow anyway. I'd consider a Mac, but all my software is PC and I have never even used a Mac (they also seem very expensive). I have a limited budget (like to keep it under $2000 if possible. I have monitors and external USB hard drives for backup). I don't need a "state of the art screamer" but I do need a faster, more powerful machine to comfortably process 21 MB RAW 5DmkII files and one that works well with my Canon 6100 printer. I figure 200-300 MB files will be a routine thing in Photoshop (currenty using PSCS2 and LR2.3) Color management MUST work properly.
> 
> I've never used Vista and am a bit gun shy. I have heard there are problems with its ability to retain monitor calibration data, etc, and that color management may be an issue. I have also read about problems getting the Canon drivers and plugins working. A new machine will have some flavor of Vista, but which one? And is XP compatibility mode part of the standard Vista system? Does Vista require any new software or can I use my old Windows XP software?
> 
> Suggestions on computer make, deals, CPU, amount and type of RAM, hard drive size and type, video card, etc, would be appreciated. I'd like the video card to have two connections and two video lookup tables for my two Samsung monitors. Any other advice would be appreciated. I'm way out of touch on what to buy and don't want to make a big mistake.
> 
> Thank You,
> 
> Lou Dina
> 
>  
> 
> p.s. I have posted this email to a few other forums.  Thanks for understanding.
>
If you can wait Windows 7 will be released in October. If you buy a Vista PC before Windows 7 is released, Microsoft may provide a free or low cost upgrade from Vista to 7. The cutoff date has not been firmed up but probably after July 1 will get you the free upgrade.

I just bought a custom built PC on EBAy - Intel i7 940, 12 meg RAM, RAID 0 15000 RPM drives, eVGA GTX 285 PCIe video for $1900 including Vista Ultimate 64 bit.

If you can afford it, go with a 64 bit capable system with at least 6 meg or more RAM

There are lots of deals out there. Just replaced my machine with a Dell 
laptop. If you buy one of their E series (the 6400 looks good to me) you 
can get a machine with the ability to revert from Vista to XP. If you're 
using external drives, the internal hard drive can be 160-250 GIG. 
Definitely get a Core 2 Duo processor and 4GIG of memory max. I assume 
you'll use an external monitor for critical work. I actually got a 
Studio XPS 16 machine with their RGBLED display--I hear it's garish at 
the factory setting, but it can be adjusted to meet color calibration 
standards. This machine is well within your budget at the sale prices 
Dell is quoting, but you can't downgrade to XP on it.

Roger

Louis Dina wrote:
>
> I need some advice. My 6 year old computer (WinXP) just crashed ... I 
> have a limited budget (like to keep it under $2000 if possible. I have 
> monitors and external USB hard drives for backup). I don't need a 
> "state of the art screamer" but I do need a faster, more powerful 
> machine to comfortably process 21 MB RAW 5DmkII files and one that 
> works well with my Canon 6100 printer. I figure 200-300 MB files will 
> be a routine thing in Photoshop (currenty using PSCS2 and LR2.3) Color 
> management MUST work properly.
>
> I've never used Vista and am a bit gun shy. I have heard there are 
> problems with its ability to retain monitor calibration data, etc, and 
> that color management may be an issue. I have also read about problems 
> getting the Canon drivers and plugins working. A new machine will have 
> some flavor of Vista, but which one? And is XP compatibility mode part 
> of the standard Vista system? Does Vista require any new software or 
> can I use my old Windows XP software?
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

One leaked Best Buy memo "puts a date on when people can start buying
Vista-based machines and qualify for a free upgrade to Windows 7. According
to the memo, June 26 is the magic date--and I'm hearing that date is
correct."

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10258259-56.html?tag=mncol;posts

 

I'll echo that 64 bit Vista would be the way to go now, with hardware
supporting well over the 4 GB limit in 32 bit OS's.  That's not exotic or
high end like it might've been a year or 2 ago.  You'll do better on the
computing power per dollar with a desktop over a laptop.  Not that I'm not
pleased with my T400 Thinkpad --  T9600 CPU with 4 GB now.  Maxing it to 8
GB requires RAM that's still quite expensive and disk drive performance is a
weak point in laptops. 

 

Bob

 

 

 

------------
If you can wait Windows 7 will be released in October. If you buy a Vista PC
before Windows 7 is released, Microsoft may provide a free or low cost
upgrade from Vista to 7. The cutoff date has not been firmed up but probably
after July 1 will get you the free upgrade.

I just bought a custom built PC on EBAy - Intel i7 940, 12 meg RAM, RAID 0
15000 RPM drives, eVGA GTX 285 PCIe video for $1900 including Vista Ultimate
64 bit.

If you can afford it, go with a 64 bit capable system with at least 6 meg or
more RAM

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/8/2009 8:51:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
lou@... writes:

A new  machine will have some flavor of Vista, but which one? And is XP 
compatibility  mode part of the standard Vista system? Does Vista require any 
new software or  can I use my old Windows XP software?



Vista is so full of problems of compatibility, I wouldn't touch it for the  
kind of work we do. That's why I bought refurbished machines with XP  
Professional. In addition, I bought a Windows XP Pro Disk so I could load my own  
(the computer was at a repair shop and they load their own disk version of 
Win  XP).
Dell has some good deals on refurbished machines with XP... mine is the XPS 
 410 with 4GB RAM and several PC slots (you want to know how many). There 
is a  XPS model above that you might want to look at. I don't worry about USB 
or  Firewire connections, 'cause they are cheap to add on. You'll re-use 
your memory  in the new machine, you just need to be sure you have sufficient 
slots.
 
HTH
 
Mega
**************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your 
fingertips. 
(http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lou -

 

I struggle with the same issues.  First, before the Mac war lights up - I
have both Macs and PC's.  I keep the PCs a/ because of specialized software
in my industry and b/ because I have a load of older PC software that works
well for my business.  Macs are great - especially for graphics and
usability but if you want to retain the PC software that eliminates the Mac.
Second, do NOT get a Vista machine.   They are a disaster.  You can still
have XP Pro machines custom made or order XP Pro machines from Dell and
others.  The XP Pro is available in 64 bit which will allow more memory and
greater speed.  However, you may not be able to use all of the older
software on the 64 bit XP.  That leaves the 32 bit XP Pro as the only
alternative for a machine that will reliably use older PC based software.
Get the fastest processor that you can afford; the largest hard drive you
can find, an external hard drive for backup; a dual video card with the most
on-board memory you can afford; and 4 GB (max) of RAM.  The 32 bit XP can
only read a little over 3 GB of the RAM.

 

 

Tom

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, here are some ideas from a 5dmk2 Windows user.

I have a Vista 64-bit system, now service pack 2, and have very few problems. Mostly, a few old pieces of software that don't run perfectly (Cryptainer LE is one - it works, but needs a few extra clicks to get anywhere). I had no problems with Vista 32-bit but 64-bit is better for working with those big 5dmk2 files. Specifically I have no color management problems. (Be sure any Web posts identifying problems are recent - we are now on SP2 for Vista and it is a reasonably mature system. Some of the stupid things in it will be fixed in Windows 7, which will be coming in the next year or so.)

The issue moving from XP to Vista, and from 32-bit to 64-bit, is drivers for your hardware. Before you decide, go to the manufacturers' Web sites for each of your peripherals (don't forget the monitors if they, like the Eizos, don't use Windows native drivers) and download the appropriate Vista drivers just to be sure they are available.

I would then recommend you go to a good PC repair-and-sell store (make sure it is a good one) in your area and get a desktop system built to order. Get a quad-core processor if you can afford it and all the RAM you can afford - let them recommend amount and type. I also recommend you buy two big new internal hard drives, one for system and one for data, and have them install your old internal drives so you can get to the data including the downloaded Vista drivers and profiles, email, etc. from the old system drive. (Usually the cost of moving data is most of the price of a new hard drive.)

Hope this helps,

  - susan

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Louis Dina" <lou@...> wrote:

>
> I need some advice. My 6 year old computer (WinXP) just crashed and I need a new one.  It was getting slow anyway. I'd consider a Mac, but all my software is PC and I have never even used a Mac (they also seem very expensive). I have a limited budget (like to keep it under $2000 if possible. I have monitors and external USB hard drives for backup). I don't need a "state of the art screamer" but I do need a faster, more powerful machine to comfortably process 21 MB RAW 5DmkII files and one that works well with my Canon 6100 printer. I figure 200-300 MB files will be a routine thing in Photoshop (currenty using PSCS2 and LR2.3) Color management MUST work properly.
> 
> I've never used Vista and am a bit gun shy. I have heard there are problems with its ability to retain monitor calibration data, etc, and that color management may be an issue. I have also read about problems getting the Canon drivers and plugins working. A new machine will have some flavor of Vista, but which one? And is XP compatibility mode part of the standard Vista system? Does Vista require any new software or can I use my old Windows XP software?
> 
> Suggestions on computer make, deals, CPU, amount and type of RAM, hard drive size and type, video card, etc, would be appreciated. I'd like the video card to have two connections and two video lookup tables for my two Samsung monitors. Any other advice would be appreciated. I'm way out of touch on what to buy and don't want to make a big mistake.
> 
> Thank You,
> 
> Lou Dina
> 
>  
> 
> p.s. I have posted this email to a few other forums.  Thanks for understanding.
>

There is no Mac/PC war. That ended long ago. PC controls the general market
and Mac controls a very loyal but small niche market. The two problems with
a niche market are pricing and availability of software. As a business
necessity, software manufacturing generally shoots for the larger market and
fills the niche market if the demand warrants it. That is simple business
survival. Secondly, a lower volume in a niche market creates unreasonably
high pricing because of the captive audience. Having owned both platforms,
the most inconvenient experience was software availability for my Mac
systems. When upgrade decisions approached it became a matter of
practicality to look towards the available PC systems. The one experiment
that I have not tried has been with the dual platform Mac systems. Apple did
recognize the handicap which they were fighting regarding software and made
an effort to compete in that arena. Sadly, they did nothing about pricing.

Regarding Vista, Windows 7 has been announced for October of this year and
early beta testing has shown a lot of promise. I would expect that sometime
later this summer, if you purchase a system with Vista onboard, you will be
offered a reasonable , if not free upgrade. Otherwise, people would not buy
a system until 7 arrived. We run both XP Pro and Vista Business here and
Microsoft is advising that they plan to discontinue XP support in the near
future. Furthermore, XP is limited in the amount of RAM that it recognizes
and you will hit the wall at about 3gigs. I hope some of this helps you.

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom
Fielder
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:05 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re:New Computer Advice

 






Lou -

I struggle with the same issues. First, before the Mac war lights up - I
have both Macs and PC's. I keep the PCs a/ because of specialized software
in my industry and b/ because I have a load of older PC software that works
well for my business. Macs are great - especially for graphics and
usability but if you want to retain the PC software that eliminates the Mac.
Second, do NOT get a Vista machine. They are a disaster. You can still
have XP Pro machines custom made or order XP Pro machines from Dell and
others. The XP Pro is available in 64 bit which will allow more memory and
greater speed. However, you may not be able to use all of the older
software on the 64 bit XP. That leaves the 32 bit XP Pro as the only
alternative for a machine that will reliably use older PC based software.
Get the fastest processor that you can afford; the largest hard drive you
can find, an external hard drive for backup; a dual video card with the most
on-board memory you can afford; and 4 GB (max) of RAM. The 32 bit XP can
only read a little over 3 GB of the RAM.

Tom

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A very useful thing to do would be to visit a website that helps you design your own computer. This allows you to evaluate the cost of different designs such as the amount of RAM, type of hard drives, etc. 

I recently did this and purchased a computer from CyberPower, Inc,  www.cyberpowerpc.com. Their online design program was easy to use and instructive and it helped me avoid incompatibilities. If you order a computer from them, they will have a person evaluate your design and call you if they think your design has a problem. Their service was excellent. When I filled out their on-line survey after I received my computer, I complained about one small thing and a management person actually called me on the telephone to try to understand my complaint better. 

I paid $3,000 for a system which has:  800 watt power supply, extra internal cooling fans, a larger case (to allow for better air circulation - heat is the biggest killer of computers), a quad-core processor with liquid cooling, three hard drives (1Tb for storage; 64Gb solid state drive for system and Photoshop software; and 150Gb 10,000rpm Winchester for scratch disk space and other software), 8Gb DDR3 RAM (i.e. fast), 64-bit Vista, and the usual odds-n-ends such as a wireless terminal, 8 USB ports, optical mouse, etc. 

That is a heck of a system for only $3,000. My 1Gb raw files are drum-scanned (16-bit pixel depth) 4x5 negatives. Adding several layers increases the file size a lot. Basically, my computer can run about as fast as I can click during Photoshop editing. 

Personally, I would not buy a Photoshop system without using both a 64-bit operating system and 64-bit Photoshop. The combination is a real winner and will become more standard in the near future. I have had no problems with Vista, by the way. 

I may make one change to my computer system. I may add another 64Gb solid state hard drive which I would dedicate solely as a Photoshop scratch disk. The solid state drive would be considerably faster than a spinning hard drive, even one spinning at 10,000rpm. This might even be more cost effective and just about as good as adding more RAM. 

At any rate, visit a website that will allow you to look at different computer designs and you probably will benefit a lot and be more apt to get the computer you really need. 

Good luck. 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Louis Dina" <lou@...> wrote:

>
> I need some advice. My 6 year old computer (WinXP) just crashed and I need a new one.  It was getting slow anyway. I'd consider a Mac, but all my software is PC and I have never even used a Mac (they also seem very expensive). I have a limited budget (like to keep it under $2000 if possible. I have monitors and external USB hard drives for backup). I don't need a "state of the art screamer" but I do need a faster, more powerful machine to comfortably process 21 MB RAW 5DmkII files and one that works well with my Canon 6100 printer. I figure 200-300 MB files will be a routine thing in Photoshop (currenty using PSCS2 and LR2.3) Color management MUST work properly.
> 
> I've never used Vista and am a bit gun shy. I have heard there are problems with its ability to retain monitor calibration data, etc, and that color management may be an issue. I have also read about problems getting the Canon drivers and plugins working. A new machine will have some flavor of Vista, but which one? And is XP compatibility mode part of the standard Vista system? Does Vista require any new software or can I use my old Windows XP software?
> 
> Suggestions on computer make, deals, CPU, amount and type of RAM, hard drive size and type, video card, etc, would be appreciated. I'd like the video card to have two connections and two video lookup tables for my two Samsung monitors. Any other advice would be appreciated. I'm way out of touch on what to buy and don't want to make a big mistake.

I am a Mac user who has rarely needed software which was not available  
for the Mac, but there has been some, and so for a couple of  
specialized apps I've had to buy Windows machines, and so now I own  
three, actually.  I bought them from a Texas outfit which seemed to  
have better prices and warranties and inhouse service than some other  
outlets, although granted I didn't do an exhaustive search, and were  
available with full versions of XP.  I don't know much about Windows,  
but I knew I didn't want Vista.

www.altex.com

if you want to check them out.

James

You may want to reconsider solid state drives for use in write  
intensive operations such as Photoshop scratch disk.
According to Wikipedia solid state drives have slower write speeds  
than the conventional spinning type.

Go here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive) and scroll  
halfway down the article to the section on "Disadvantages". There are  
some other issues to be aware of as well.

Best,
Dale Hoffman

On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:02 PM, rcoolbreeze2000 wrote:
>
>
> I may make one change to my computer system. I may add another 64Gb  
> solid state hard drive which I would dedicate solely as a Photoshop  
> scratch disk. The solid state drive would be considerably faster  
> than a spinning hard drive, even one spinning at 10,000rpm. This  
> might even be more cost effective and just about as good as adding  
> more RAM.
>

I was under the impression that read/write speeds for solid state drives are extremely fast. I also thought that the problem with their relatively short lifetimes was solved. 

I'll keep an eye out for more information. Thanks for supplying the link. 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Dale Hoffman <dhoff@...> wrote:

>
> You may want to reconsider solid state drives for use in write  
> intensive operations such as Photoshop scratch disk.
> According to Wikipedia solid state drives have slower write speeds  
> than the conventional spinning type.
> 
> Go here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive) and scroll  
> halfway down the article to the section on "Disadvantages". There are  
> some other issues to be aware of as well.
> 
> Best,
> Dale Hoffman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:02 PM, rcoolbreeze2000 wrote:
> >
> >
> > I may make one change to my computer system. I may add another 64Gb  
> > solid state hard drive which I would dedicate solely as a Photoshop  
> > scratch disk. The solid state drive would be considerably faster  
> > than a spinning hard drive, even one spinning at 10,000rpm. This  
> > might even be more cost effective and just about as good as adding  
> > more RAM.

Here's something to think about. Yesterday I bought my mother an 
eMachines computer at Bestbuy. For $403 including tax, she got a 
computer with the following:

#AMD Athlon\ufffd X2 dual-core processor 4050e, 3GB DDR2 memory, double-layer 
DVD\ufffdRW/CD-RW drive with Labelflash support, 320GB hard drive, NVIDIA 
GeForce 6150 SE graphics, 15-in-1 media reader and Windows Vista Home 
Premium with SP1
# 18.5" flat-panel widescreen LCD monitor with ultrafast 5 ms response 
time, 10,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio and antiglare screen treatment; 2 
built-in speakers.

This type of computer is perfectly fine for word processing, emailing, 
and web use.

I mention this because you might want to have separate computers for 
web/general use and for Photoshop use. If you're Photoshop computer is 
not connected to the internet, you won't need anti-virus or anti spyware 
software running all the time which can sap computer speed. You also 
maximize compatibility, as your web machine can have a 32 bit operating 
system, and you can also keep a back-up copy of your digital files on it.

For the Photoshop computer, lots of ram makes the biggest difference. 
Hence, you'll want XP, Vista, or Windows 7 64 bit system with 8 gigs or 
more of ram. You'll want a dedicated hard drive for a Photoshop scratch 
disk. Solid state would be best, but even just a dedicated drive helps. 
An 8-core processor probably won't be that big of an improvement over a 
quad core one. The latest version of photoshop does use a video card for 
some operations, but getting a super fast gaming video card, or two 
video cards, isn't cost effective.

My nephew, who has a computer science degree, recently bought a computer 
from:

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/

He certainly could've put together his own computer, but he said he 
couldn't do so for as cheaply as cyberpowerpc did. And they allow lots 
of customization. You might try emailing them what you want to do and 
see what they recommend.

Btw., getting a good battery power backup system, such as an APC UPS, is 
very important. Most computer crashes are hard drive crashes, and 
blackouts are one of the biggest causes of hard drive failures.


Hope this helps,
Peter

Test

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Hoffman
Sent: 08 June 2009 19:37
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New Computer Advice

 






You may want to reconsider solid state drives for use in write 
intensive operations such as Photoshop scratch disk.
According to Wikipedia solid state drives have slower write speeds 
than the conventional spinning type.

Go here (http://en.wikipedia
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive>
.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive) and scroll 
halfway down the article to the section on "Disadvantages". There are 
some other issues to be aware of as well.

Best,
Dale Hoffman

On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:02 PM, rcoolbreeze2000 wrote:
>
>
> I may make one change to my computer system. I may add another 64Gb 
> solid state hard drive which I would dedicate solely as a Photoshop 
> scratch disk. The solid state drive would be considerably faster 
> than a spinning hard drive, even one spinning at 10,000rpm. This 
> might even be more cost effective and just about as good as adding 
> more RAM.
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wow....Thanks for all the suggestions.  I really appreciate the flood of informed advice from people who do what I do and know what is needed.  

I'm still weighing my options.  I've not been unhappy with my old PC or WinXP, and fact they have worked well for me.  After 6 plus years, it got tired and probably overloaded with garbage.  I'm just a tad concerned about Vista 64 and whether my devices, drivers and software will all work well.  

I'm equally open to a Mac, but they are pricey and all my software is windows based, so that will add extra expense.  I'd also have to run WinXP on the Mac, at least until I gradually weaned myself to all Mac software.  

I may come back with more questions.  All other thoughts are welcome.

Regards, and thanks,

Lou Dina

Lou,
Especially if you don't have to purchase a new monitor, I don't think a Mac is out of your price range of $2,000 or less.  My son got into the Macs about 5 years ago and eventually converted me to a used Power Mac G4 for our "everyday" computer.  My wife was tired of/frustrated with my frequently having to run cleanup software to make the Windows XP PC run acceptably.  I haven't had to do that on the Mac.  Recently I upgraded the first one (733 mhz single PPC) for a dual 1.25 PPC G4 with 2 meg of RAM.  Even on the 733 G4 I was able to run PS CS2 to my satisfaction.  Now, I don't consider myself a power PS user and rarely have more than one image open at a time and rarely have more than one program running at a time, so others' mileages may vary.
Now my son is a Genius (Tech Support staff) at Apple!  Just for fun I'll forward your email to him for a ballpark technology/price recommendation on a Mac.  I would think a Mac with an Intel Core 2 Duo CPU and 2-3 gig of RAM would meet your needs. 
I still use my XP PC for programs that don't run on the Mac like the SSCC printer utility among others.  I rarely have it connect to the internet, and that seems to have helped it be a bit more stable.  And with my wife used to using the Mac I don't get the complaints about the computer not working.
Mike Brubaker   
--- On Mon, 6/8/09, Louis Dina <lou@...> wrote:

From: Louis Dina <lou@...>
Subject: [Digital BW] New Computer Advice
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 8:51 AM











 






    
            
            


      
      I need some advice. My 6 year old computer (WinXP) just crashed and I need a new one.  It was getting slow anyway. I'd consider a Mac, but all my software is PC and I have never even used a Mac (they also seem very expensive). I have a limited budget (like to keep it under $2000 if possible. I have monitors and external USB hard drives for backup). I don't need a "state of the art screamer" but I do need a faster, more powerful machine to comfortably process 21 MB RAW 5DmkII files and one that works well with my Canon 6100 printer. I figure 200-300 MB files will be a routine thing in Photoshop (currenty using PSCS2 and LR2.3) Color management MUST work properly.



I've never used Vista and am a bit gun shy. I have heard there are problems with its ability to retain monitor calibration data, etc, and that color management may be an issue. I have also read about problems getting the Canon drivers and plugins working. A new machine will have some flavor of Vista, but which one? And is XP compatibility mode part of the standard Vista system? Does Vista require any new software or can I use my old Windows XP software?



Suggestions on computer make, deals, CPU, amount and type of RAM, hard drive size and type, video card, etc, would be appreciated. I'd like the video card to have two connections and two video lookup tables for my two Samsung monitors. Any other advice would be appreciated. I'm way out of touch on what to buy and don't want to make a big mistake.



Thank You,



Lou Dina



p.s. I have posted this email to a few other forums.  Thanks for understanding.




 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	


	


	
	
	
	
	




      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 09/06/2009 00:04, "Tom Fielder" <tfielder@...> wrote:

> but if you want to retain the PC software that eliminates the Mac.

Actually, that is no longer true with the intel dual processor machines.
These can operate windows software as well as Mac software, thus the best of
both worlds is available. The machine has bootcamp software installed which
allows starting up windows OS/windows software. There are more sophisticated
versions of this on Open Source Mac software. So, if macs offer better
graphics performance and this is a computer to work with photographs, then
there is less reason not to choose a mac for that purpose. (Also, macs have
less of an issue with viruses and other attacks, less not 100% less, but
less.)

Toodle-pip,

Allan.

Here's my son's advice:
"It seems like he is the ideal candidate for a Mac Pro, with the external monitors and desire to set them up in tandem.  The base model is currently priced at $2499, so it's a bit higher than what he wanted to pay, but it's a quad-core 2.66 GHz Xeon with 3 GB or memory (expandable to 32 GB), a 640 GB hard drive and an NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 512 MB VRAM.  It's got four hard drive bays, so he's good to go for expansion there, and it can accommodate multiple graphics cards as well.  As it is, the built in video card should amply handle the two monitors he wants to use.
If that's a little more than he'd like to spend, which I can certainly understand, there are plenty of older models (all of which should meet his requirements) linked for sale here.  My advice would be to purchase one that can be registered with Apple Care, since the components are expensive.
Also, if he is willing to consider an iMac, there are currently two 24" models that would fit his needs nicely - the 2.66 and 2.93 GHz models at $	1499 and $1799 respectively.  He would be able to run an external monitor with a Mini Display Port to DVI adapter, and he would have the built-in 24" display as well.  While the iMac isn't as expandable internally, it can be used with external hard drives for scratch disks, and it supports up to 8 GB of memory, which is customer-installable.  I know a number of graphics professionals who use them as their main workstations."
Mike Brubaker
--- On Mon, 6/8/09, Allan Sutherland <allan@...> wrote:

From: Allan Sutherland <allan@...>
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re:New Computer Advice
To: "Digital Black&White" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 9:53 PM











 






    
            
            


      
      On 09/06/2009 00:04, "Tom Fielder" <tfielder@fieldergro up.com> wrote:



> but if you want to retain the PC software that eliminates the Mac.



Actually, that is no longer true with the intel dual processor machines.

These can operate windows software as well as Mac software, thus the best of

both worlds is available. The machine has bootcamp software installed which

allows starting up windows OS/windows software. There are more sophisticated

versions of this on Open Source Mac software. So, if macs offer better

graphics performance and this is a computer to work with photographs, then

there is less reason not to choose a mac for that purpose. (Also, macs have

less of an issue with viruses and other attacks, less not 100% less, but

less.)



Toodle-pip,



Allan.




 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	


	


	
	
	
	
	




      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I'm still weighing my options.  I've not been unhappy with my old PC or WinXP, and fact they have worked well for me.  After 6 plus years, it got tired and probably overloaded with garbage.  I'm just a tad concerned about Vista 64 and whether my devices, drivers and software will all work well.  

> Lou Dina

Some thoughts:

A Windows machine is more compatible with Qimage.

The Beta version of Windows 7 may bridge the time till 7 becomes 
available for sale.

Two months ago I came to the conclusion that a Raid with Veloci Raptors 
still beats solid state harddiscs on price/performance.

There has been a time that I followed computer technology on a weekly 
base, not any longer, if I need a new system now I go to a Dutch nerds 
site and see what they advise, there must be a US site like that.

http://tweakers.net/archieven/tag/best+buy+guide/reviews/


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

It seems to me as long as we discuss computers on printing forum the most important question is: what computer is easier to print with and to get better quality from?
I'm not sure myself but it looks like Mac can print colors in 16 bit, PC can only print 8 bit. They have different print engines, Mac is based on Unix engine.
What do you think about the difference between Mac and PC printing?

Regarding operating system choice there is no one that fits everybody.
The most practical is PC with Vista64 which allows to use a lot of memory, memory is cheap now. When you resize image for printing sometimes it can reach 1 gig in size, my PC with with 16 gig of RAM handles it easily.

Not all programs run under Vista64, so I've installed Vista32 and Windows XP  on my machine and use multi boot manager. This way I can use any software I need.

But sometimes PC is not enough, so I added to my system print server based on Mac Mini. Mac Mini is pretty powerful now, Core 2 Duo processor, up to 4 gig of RAM and up to 500 gig hard drive. It also supports dual monitor setup. To avoid clutter on my desk I use the same keyboard and mouse for PC and Mac switching them with USB switch (cheaper than KVM), my monitors have two inputs so I just switch source on them. Also Mac Mini is pretty cheap.

This way I can run software that is for Mac only and print in 16 bit.

If somebody has information to compare printing engines of Mac and PC it would be interesting reading.

Jacob Mann
http://www.photo3dart.com

> It seems to me as long as we discuss computers on printing forum the most important question is: what computer is easier to print with and to get better quality from?
> I'm not sure myself but it looks like Mac can print colors in 16 bit, PC can only print 8 bit. They have different print engines, Mac is based on Unix engine.
> What do you think about the difference between Mac and PC printing?

> 
> Jacob Mann
> http://www.photo3dart.com

I don't think that the Mac has an advantage right now on 16bit 
processing for workflows in photography.
It would be interesting to set the editing applications etc and drivers 
next to one another and see if there is a 16 bit chain for both systems.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Look at the number of RIPs for PC and the number for Mac, then look at what many people are using for their RIP and where you might get help if a question arises.

If you are always going to just use the driver that comes with the printer, then get whichever platform you are most comfortable with, and is most cost effective.

You are better off with Vista 64 or a big RAM disk. 


----- "Steve Woolfenden" <swoolf@...> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Test 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Dale 
> Hoffman 
> Sent: 08 June 2009 19:37 
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New Computer Advice 
> 
> You may want to reconsider solid state drives for use in write 
> intensive operations such as Photoshop scratch disk. 
> According to Wikipedia solid state drives have slower write speeds 
> than the conventional spinning type. 
> 
> Go here ( http://en.wikipedia 
> < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive > 
> .org/wiki/Solid-state_drive) and scroll 
> halfway down the article to the section on "Disadvantages". There are 
> some other issues to be aware of as well. 
> 
> Best, 
> Dale Hoffman 
> 
> On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:02 PM, rcoolbreeze2000 wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > I may make one change to my computer system. I may add another 64Gb 
> > solid state hard drive which I would dedicate solely as a Photoshop 
> > scratch disk. The solid state drive would be considerably faster 
> > than a spinning hard drive, even one spinning at 10,000rpm. This 
> > might even be more cost effective and just about as good as adding 
> > more RAM. 
> > 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 
> 
> 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We're using two WD Velociraptor 300gb/10krpm drives in a Gateway FX6800.  The drives have been tested to be quite comparable to SSDs without the expense.  You will find them on eBay for about $179 or so.  The drives each have a 30gb scratch file partition set up and the balance for PS and Painter files.  They're working GREAT!  Soon, the two will be tied together as a RAID1 system for mirroring and backup combo.

Good Luck!  Mike


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Dale Hoffman <dhoff@...> wrote:

>
> You may want to reconsider solid state drives for use in write  
> intensive operations such as Photoshop scratch disk.
> According to Wikipedia solid state drives have slower write speeds  
> than the conventional spinning type.
> 
> Go here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive) and scroll  
> halfway down the article to the section on "Disadvantages". There are  
> some other issues to be aware of as well.
> 
> Best,
> Dale Hoffman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:02 PM, rcoolbreeze2000 wrote:
> >
> >
> > I may make one change to my computer system. I may add another 64Gb  
> > solid state hard drive which I would dedicate solely as a Photoshop  
> > scratch disk. The solid state drive would be considerably faster  
> > than a spinning hard drive, even one spinning at 10,000rpm. This  
> > might even be more cost effective and just about as good as adding  
> > more RAM.
> >
>

"Louis Dina" <lou@...> wrote:
>
> I need some advice. My 6 year old computer (WinXP) just crashed ...

I'm going to be in the same position soon.

One issue that bothers me is the printer driver compatibility for my old 7500 and probably other printers.  I haven't even checked the situation for my Nikon 8000 scanner.  But if Vista can't run these things, a Mac that can run XP or a cheap XP laptop might be needed.

It turns out there is a way to run the 7500 with Vista 32.  Bob Shram on the Epson Wide Format forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EpsonWideFormat/message/88351 published a clever work-around that allows my Vista 32 laptop to driver the old printer.  Whether there is a similar work-around for Vista 64 is something I'd like to know.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I recently got a quote from a local computer shop for a purpose-built 
desktop box (I'll keep keyboard and monitor, plus all external drives 
and probably will also move one of my internal drives which contains 
most of my images from current to new machine.)  They were able to 
provide a new box with XP installed - no Vista/downgrade process, just a 
new XP operating system from the get go.  This is a local operation, not 
a national chain or franchise.  You might be able to find the same thing 
if you ask.


pr_roark wrote:
>
>
>
>
> One issue that bothers me is the printer driver compatibility for my 
> old 7500 and probably other printers. I haven't even checked the 
> situation for my Nikon 8000 scanner. But if Vista can't run these 
> things, a Mac that can run XP or a cheap XP laptop might be needed.
>
> It turns out there is a way to run the 7500 with Vista 32. Bob Shram 
> on the Epson Wide Format forum at 
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EpsonWideFormat/message/88351 
> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EpsonWideFormat/message/88351> 
> published a clever work-around that allows my Vista 32 laptop to 
> driver the old printer. Whether there is a similar work-around for 
> Vista 64 is something I'd like to know.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
> 
>
>
> __,_._,__


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" 
> One issue that bothers me is the printer driver compatibility for my old 7500 and probably other printers.  I haven't even checked the situation for my Nikon 8000 scanner.  But if Vista can't run these things, a Mac that can run XP or a cheap XP laptop might be needed.
> 
> It turns out there is a way to run the 7500 with Vista 32.  Bob Shram on the Epson Wide Format forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EpsonWideFormat/message/88351 published a clever work-around that allows my Vista 32 laptop to driver the old printer.  Whether there is a similar work-around for Vista 64 is something I'd like to know.


Windows7 is supposed to have a virtualization to run XP apps. I haven't kept up on the discussions to see if it really works though. I think that anyone can still download the win7RC1 and give it a try.

For fast disks I would suggest a good fast hardware RAID card and the 2.5inch Velociraptor drives in some form of RAID 0 array. More drives equals faster speeds but minimum of 2 drives to build the array. I use 3ware cards at work and they are generally great, we also have some Adaptec cards in a couple of the servers that work well too, but most of our arrays are either RAID5 or RAID6 for data protection.

> I haven't even checked the situation for my Nikon 8000 scanner.

> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 

Vuescan and Vista 64 with a Coolscan 9000 should work so I guess the 
8000 too. A trick with NikonScan but using Vuescan was mentioned on 
Nikonians.org.

There's a Vista system here but the 8000 is connected to an XP 32bit 
machine running Vuescan.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Lou, you really need to determine at what level you're working at and whether or not you need a low, mid or high spec. machine. The lower end machines of today that people say are ok for email, writing letters, etc., just two years ago were considered screaming machines. One of the best times to buy is during the runup to the Christmas holiday. Another idea is to check out tigerdirect.com or compusa.com for some great deals on recertified boxes; get on their mailing list for the frequent specials. Still, you could clean out your old box with a free program like AdvancedSystemCare from iobit.com. Then pick up on Ebay the highest spec cpu your motherboard can take (probably $20) max the ram and you may be happy for another year or two. By then Windows 7 will have a service pack out and there'll be lots of info on whether it works well with PS or not. Finally take the $2k plus this method will save you and invest it in gdx, an etf of goldmining companies and you'll likely double your money. Really.
-MK

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Louis Dina" <lou@...> wrote:
>
> I need some advice. My 6 year old computer (WinXP) just crashed and I need a new one.  

Either build your own for about 1/4 to 1/2 the price of prebuilt.

OR...

Buy this one...you get a lot for your money. Just make sure you can add more RAM.

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Gamer_Xtreme_XE-K/

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Vitollo" <jvlist@...> wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Louis Dina" <lou@> wrote:
> >
> > I need some advice. My 6 year old computer (WinXP) just crashed and I need a new one.  
> 
> Either build your own for about 1/4 to 1/2 the price of prebuilt.
> 
> OR...
> 
> Buy this one...you get a lot for your money. Just make sure you can add more RAM.
> 
> http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Gamer_Xtreme_XE-K/
>


That one looks pretty good, except for the stupid lights.

I want to thank everyone for their expertise and advice.  It was a tough decision.  After long deliberation, I finally decided to try a Mac and ordered a Mac Pro tower, dual quad core Xeon processor, 16 GB RAM, 640GB and 1TB HDD drives, etc.  Hopefully, it will kick some serious butt.  I'll want that with my 5dmkII files, since I tend to have LOTS of layers in 16 bit mode.  

I have never owned a Mac so this will be a true learning experience for me.  I have to buy CS4 for Mac, but will run a lot of my older Windows software using Parallels software, which allows me to install them under windows.  

Should be interesting and I am ready for a new adventure.  This forum is so loaded with talented, experienced professionals who do what I do, and this particular thread brought that home to me.  It's a fantastic community and resource.  

Thanks again for your generous contributions.  I really appreciate it.

Regards, 

Lou Dina

On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:14 PM, Louis Dina wrote:

> I want to thank everyone for their expertise and advice.  It was a  
> tough decision.  After long deliberation, I finally decided to try a  
> Mac and ordered a Mac Pro tower, dual quad core Xeon processor, 16  
> GB RAM, 640GB and 1TB HDD drives, etc.  Hopefully, it will kick some  
> serious butt.  I'll want that with my 5dmkII files, since I tend to  
> have LOTS of layers in 16 bit mode.
>
> I have never owned a Mac so this will be a true learning experience  
> for me.  I have to buy CS4 for Mac, but will run a lot of my older  
> Windows software using Parallels software, which allows me to  
> install them under windows.

Ask Adobe about a "crossgrade", Lou. If they still do them, you can  
upgrade to the other platform at little if any more expense.


> Should be interesting and I am ready for a new adventure.

Yes indeed, Lou, and welcome to the Mac community.

One great resource in it is MacInTouch.com, and you might want to read  
its review of Fusion before you go with Parallels unless you're  
already familiar with both.
--
Sam

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Louis Dina" <lou@...> wrote:
>
> I want to thank everyone for their expertise and advice.  It was a tough decision.  After long deliberation, I finally decided to try a Mac and ordered a Mac Pro tower, dual quad core Xeon processor, 16 GB RAM, 640GB and 1TB HDD drives, etc.  Hopefully, it will kick some serious butt.  I'll want that with my 5dmkII files, since I tend to have LOTS of layers in 16 bit mode.  

Whoa! Holy Smokes! It's going to kick some major Canon full frame butt!!

Congrats Man!

For what that costs it ought to kick serveral serious butts at the same time!
Tom Baker

--- On Tue, 6/9/09, John Vitollo <jvlist@...> wrote:

From: John Vitollo <jvlist@...>
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: New Computer Advice
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 7:38 PM











 






    
            
            


      
      --- In DigitalBlackandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com, "Louis Dina" <lou@...> wrote:

>

> I want to thank everyone for their expertise and advice.  It was a tough decision.  After long deliberation, I finally decided to try a Mac and ordered a Mac Pro tower, dual quad core Xeon processor, 16 GB RAM, 640GB and 1TB HDD drives, etc.  Hopefully, it will kick some serious butt.  I'll want that with my 5dmkII files, since I tend to have LOTS of layers in 16 bit mode.  



Whoa! Holy Smokes! It's going to kick some major Canon full frame butt!!



Congrats Man!




 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	


	


	
	
	
	
	



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Johnny's right. It will kick serious butt and hopefully last many years. Congrats. You devil. We all want one. Smart investing in the ram with that rig. Also make sure you have Photoshop CS4 to take advantage of the processor.

john

Unless they have changed their policy, Adobe will allow you to change
platforms for a fraction of the original cost. You might want to give them a
call and see what they are willing to do.

Roger

From: Louis Dina <lou@loudina.com>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 02:14:09 -0000
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: New Computer Advice

 
  

  

I want to thank everyone for their expertise and advice.  It was a tough
decision.  After long deliberation, I finally decided to try a Mac and
ordered a Mac Pro tower, dual quad core Xeon processor, 16 GB RAM, 640GB and
1TB HDD drives, etc.  Hopefully, it will kick some serious butt.  I'll want
that with my 5dmkII files, since I tend to have LOTS of layers in 16 bit
mode.  

I have never owned a Mac so this will be a true learning experience for me.
I have to buy CS4 for Mac, but will run a lot of my older Windows software
using Parallels software, which allows me to install them under windows.

Should be interesting and I am ready for a new adventure.  This forum is so
loaded with talented, experienced professionals who do what I do, and this
particular thread brought that home to me.  It's a fantastic community and
resource.  

Thanks again for your generous contributions.  I really appreciate it.

Regards, 

Lou Dina

  
    

> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Sam McCandless <samcc@...> wrote:
>I moved to a Mac a year ago and Adobe gave me a Mac version of CS3 for the cost of shipping the disc.  I had to promise to destroy my PC version, but that was all.  I was driven to the Mac by Vista. 

Steve

> 
> On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:14 PM, Louis Dina wrote:
> 

> Ask Adobe about a "crossgrade", Lou. If they still do them, you can  
> upgrade to the other platform at little if any more expense.
> 
> 
> > Should be interesting and I am ready for a new adventure.
> 
> Yes indeed, Lou, and welcome to the Mac community.
> 
> One great resource in it is MacInTouch.com, and you might want to read  
> its review of Fusion before you go with Parallels unless you're  
> already familiar with both.
> --
> Sam
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Louis Dina" <lou@...> wrote:
>

> I have never owned a Mac so this will be a true learning experience for me.  I have to buy CS4 for Mac, but will run a lot of my older Windows software using Parallels software, which allows me to install them under windows.  
> 


Please note... Parallels takes resources from both "platforms" when it is running. You need to assign what percentage of processor and memory that it gets. So if you are thinking of moving from one application to another just keep in mind that the performance of both sides will be reduced.

For those times when you may want most of what that hardware can give in Windows, I suggest that you also make a partition and install Windows for a dual boot. Dual booting is hold down the option key while you turn the computer on, this will give you all bootable options (including optical disk if you have a bootable disk in the drive).

And when I said most of what the hardware can offer under WIndows it is based on what I see with our Mac Pro dual dual cores machines at work. They just don't seem to run WIndows as fast as they should, I attribute this to the bootcamp drivers. They run slower enough that I will not install Avid Media Composer on the Windows side because I don't think it will do as well as running on a single dual core "built for Windows" computer.

And I do hope you are not buying that RAM from Apple, they really rip you off on the RAM prices and you can do much better buying from someplace like Corsair or Kingston.

You should consider getting one or two more drives and connecting them in a RAID 0 array for the Photoshop swap file. You have a total of 4 SATA drive bays in that tower so that would be the system drive, a storage drive, and two smaller and faster drives for the array. Note that the 2.5inch Velociraptor drives will not fit, you need standard sized SATA2 with the 3GB interface to take full advantage. RAID arrays can be set up in Disk Utilities which is in the:

Finder --> system drive --> applications --> utilities --> disk utilities

or possibly from the GO tab and follow the same path down to it. With the level of hardware that you bought, having a fast swap array only seems fitting.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Louis Dina" <lou@...> wrote:
>
[snip]
> I have never owned a Mac so this will be a true learning experience for me.  I have to buy CS4 for Mac, but will run a lot of my older Windows software using Parallels software, which allows me to install them under windows.  
> 
> Should be interesting and I am ready for a new adventure.  This forum is so loaded with talented, experienced professionals who do what I do, and this particular thread brought that home to me.  It's a fantastic community and resource.  
[snip]
> Lou Dina

Nice rig, Lou. Steel yourself for the transition but don't give up. I helped a friend of mine—a photographer and national magazine photo editor—through same last year where initially he had to be talked off a few ledges but now couldn't be happier. That curve is steep, but short. Beats the heck out of a death by a thousand cuts. 

-Phil

The quotation attribution in Steve's post was mistakenly applied to  
me. It was Steve who was driven to the Mac by Vista: I am innocent of  
Vista but was seduced by the Mac IIci. 8)
--
Sam

On Jun 10, 2009, at 8:36 AM, Stephen Kobrin wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Sam McCandless  
> <samcc@...> wrote:
>> I moved to a Mac a year ago and Adobe gave me a Mac version of CS3  
>> for the cost of shipping the disc.  I had to promise to destroy my  
>> PC version, but that was all.  I was driven to the Mac by Vista.
>
> Steve
>>
>> On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:14 PM, Louis Dina wrote:
>>
>
>> Ask Adobe about a "crossgrade", Lou. If they still do them, you can
>> upgrade to the other platform at little if any more expense.
>>
>>
>>> Should be interesting and I am ready for a new adventure.
>>
>> Yes indeed, Lou, and welcome to the Mac community.
>>
>> One great resource in it is MacInTouch.com, and you might want to  
>> read
>> its review of Fusion before you go with Parallels unless you're
>> already familiar with both.
>> --
>> Sam
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
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>
>

Does anyone have a high confidence in the date when vendors/Microsoft 
will honor a free update to Windows 7 if you buy a Vista computer in the 
near term?

Roger

Given the many negative things many have had to say about Vista, I'm wondering why one would want to rush out and get Windows 7 before the first service pak.  I've got Vista 64, Vista 32, and XP PRO now.  They all work fine so I'm staying with them until SP1 version of Windows 7 is released.
Tom Baker

--- On Wed, 6/10/09, Roger <photo-1@...> wrote:

From: Roger <photo-1@...>
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New Computer Advice
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 10:23 AM











 






    
            
            


      
      Does anyone have a high confidence in the date when vendors/Microsoft 

will honor a free update to Windows 7 if you buy a Vista computer in the 

near term?



Roger


 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	


	


	
	
	
	
	



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <dfaprinting@...> wrote:
>

> Please note... Parallels takes resources from both "platforms" when it is running. You need to assign what percentage of processor and memory that it gets. So if you are thinking of moving from one application to another just keep in mind that the performance of both sides will be reduced.
> 
> For those times when you may want most of what that hardware can give in Windows, I suggest that you also make a partition and install Windows for a dual boot. Dual booting is hold down the option key while you turn the computer on, this will give you all bootable options (including optical disk if you have a bootable disk in the drive).
> 
> And when I said most of what the hardware can offer under WIndows it is based on what I see with our Mac Pro dual dual cores machines at work. They just don't seem to run WIndows as fast as they should, I attribute this to the bootcamp drivers. They run slower enough that I will not install Avid Media Composer on the Windows side because I don't think it will do as well as running on a single dual core "built for Windows" computer.
> 
> And I do hope you are not buying that RAM from Apple, they really rip you off on the RAM prices and you can do much better buying from someplace like Corsair or Kingston.
> 
> You should consider getting one or two more drives and connecting them in a RAID 0 array for the Photoshop swap file. You have a total of 4 SATA drive bays in that tower so that would be the system drive, a storage drive, and two smaller and faster drives for the array. Note that the 2.5inch Velociraptor drives will not fit, you need standard sized SATA2 with the 3GB interface to take full advantage. RAID arrays can be set up in Disk Utilities which is in the:
> 
> Finder --> system drive --> applications --> utilities --> disk utilities
> 
> or possibly from the GO tab and follow the same path down to it. With the level of hardware that you bought, having a fast swap array only seems fitting.
>
Thanks Greg.  Once I get my arms around the Mac I will revisit this post and look into your suggestions and all the other great suggestions in this thread.  

Phil, I have started a precautionary regimen of antidepressants in anticipation of the "short, but steep learning curve".  (kidding, of course).  I'm reading tutorials and will visit the Mac store for a 'getting started' primer so I am more prepared when the computer arrives.  

Everyone else....thank you!!!!!  Great stuff, great forum and great people.  Definitely one of the best I frequent.

Lou

I'd take the suggested date of June 26th as a "maybe" until there's an
official policy and things are out in the open.  Once it's official, there's
usually a form you'd get with the PC you buy that entitles you to the new OS
on its release.  Microsoft and the major suppliers have announced "free
upgrade" transition periods going back to the switch from NT4 to Windows2000
about 10 years ago (if not longer).   I've known several people who've
benefitted and not had any hassles.

Bob

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:23 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New Computer Advice

 






Does anyone have a high confidence in the date when vendors/Microsoft 
will honor a free update to Windows 7 if you buy a Vista computer in the 
near term?

Roger

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom Baker wrote:

> Given the many negative things many have had to say about Vista, I'm 
> wondering why one would want to rush out and get Windows 7 before the 
> first service pak.  I've got Vista 64, Vista 32, and XP PRO now.  They 
> all work fine so I'm staying with them until SP1 version of Windows 7 is 
> released.

Vista SP2, at least in my case, has been very good.  It hasn't
solved all of the issues I trip over, such as terrible file copy
performance, but at least my printers work correctly now (for
example).

Windows 7 is very much an effort to salvage the image of Windows,
and, despite marketing attempts to portray it as a new OS, it's not.
Windows 7 is largely based on the same code as Vista - there's no way
that MS could really produce another major release of Windows in such
a relatively short time.

My speculation is that Microsoft realized that Vista was a poisoned
brand, but that the OS was fundamentally sound, it just needed a bit of
work.  So, instead of pushing to "fix Vista", they've scheduled the fixes
to Vista to be released as a new OS, a new brand.

In other words, Windows 7 is probably a lot like Vista SP3 :-)

Dana

One more thing... The latest rumor is that Apple will have the latest OS update out in September to 10.6 and this time the rumors say it will only cost you $30. About 2 months ago I just bought the upgrade to 10.5.x for our machines at work, going to have to hound them about that.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <dfaprinting@...> wrote:
>
> One more thing... The latest rumor is that Apple will have the latest OS update out in September to 10.6 and this time the rumors say it will only cost you $30. About 2 months ago I just bought the upgrade to 10.5.x for our machines at work, going to have to hound them about that.
>
It is not a rumor as it was announced by Apple this week.  Snow Leopard will be released in September at a cost of $29.

Steve

"Dana H. Myers" <dana.myers@...> wrote:
> ...
> Windows 7 ..., despite marketing attempts to portray it as 
> a new OS, it's not.  Windows 7 is largely based on the same
> code as Vista - ...

My nephew in MS is on the Windows 7 team, and it definitely sounds like a Vista-based OS.  Vista was really new code -- thus the problems.  Windows 7 sounds more like a cleaned up version, but it's also more than just a re-branding job.  It appears a lot of work went into the effort.  They certainly think it'll have fewer teething problems.  


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

pr_roark wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> "Dana H. Myers" <dana.myers@...> wrote:
>  > ...
>  > Windows 7 ..., despite marketing attempts to portray it as
>  > a new OS, it's not. Windows 7 is largely based on the same
>  > code as Vista - ...
> 
> My nephew in MS is on the Windows 7 team, and it definitely sounds like 
> a Vista-based OS.

How could it be anything else?

> Vista was really new code -- thus the problems. 
> Windows 7 sounds more like a cleaned up version, but it's also more than 
> just a re-branding job. It appears a lot of work went into the effort. 
> They certainly think it'll have fewer teething problems.

A lot of work went to fix the problems with Vista - they could have
called it Vista SP3, but they didn't.  Clearly a re-branding effort to
sever ties with Vista.

Dana

Lou-
The Yahoo group I/O MUG is a great resource for Mac owners. I am continually amazed at the responsiveness to both entry level and complex issues related to Macs. These folks truly want to help whenever possible. Feel free to ask any Mac related question, no matter how simple. It's also well worth lurking just to build you knowledge.

Joel

> Phil, I have started a precautionary regimen of antidepressants in anticipation of the "short, but steep learning curve".  (kidding, of course).  I'm reading tutorials and will visit the Mac store for a 'getting started' primer so I am more prepared when the computer arrives.  
> 
> Everyone else....thank you!!!!!  Great stuff, great forum and great people.  Definitely one of the best I frequent.
> 
> Lou
>

Since there has been so much discussion of Windows 7 - does anyone know
whether an upgrade from Vista 64-bit to Windows 7 will require
reinstallation of all software, or, even if there is a migration tool
provided, it is still a better idea to do a full clean new installation
(takes me usually about a week to go from new install to fully configured,
so is not a trivial task).

 

Thanks,  susan

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Joel Treadwell" <frodeaux@...> wrote:
>
> 
> Lou-
> The Yahoo group I/O MUG is a great resource for Mac owners. I am continually amazed at the responsiveness to both entry level and complex issues related to Macs. These folks truly want to help whenever possible. Feel free to ask any Mac related question, no matter how simple. It's also well worth lurking just to build you knowledge.
> 
> Joel

Thanks Joel.  

I will check it out right now.  I'm sure I have plenty of novice questions to ask.  

Lou

When I made the switch to a mac pro  from a pc I found ³Switching To The
Mac, Leopard Edition²  by David Pogue  to be very helpful when I had no idea
how some things were done. Available on Amazon and pretty much worth the
price.

Roger

From: Louis Dina <lou@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:53:19 -0000
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: New Computer Advice

 
  

  

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , "Joel Treadwell"
<frodeaux@...> wrote:
>
> 
> Lou-
> The Yahoo group I/O MUG is a great resource for Mac owners. I am continually
amazed at the responsiveness to both entry level and complex issues related to
Macs. These folks truly want to help whenever possible. Feel free to ask any Mac
related question, no matter how simple. It's also well worth lurking just to
build you knowledge.
> 
> Joel

Thanks Joel.  

I will check it out right now.  I'm sure I have plenty of novice questions
to ask.  

Lou

  
    

> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From what I've read, you should be able to "upgrade" to Win7, assuming there isn't significant corruption of the OS. 

However, I'm getting to believe that major OS upgrades should be done as a "clean" install, especially if you haven't done so in 2 or 3 years.

Yes, it's work, but in the end it should be worth it.

John Nollendorfs
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Chapin" <slchapin@...> wrote:

>
> Since there has been so much discussion of Windows 7 - does anyone know
> whether an upgrade from Vista 64-bit to Windows 7 will require
> reinstallation of all software, or, even if there is a migration tool
> provided, it is still a better idea to do a full clean new installation
> (takes me usually about a week to go from new install to fully configured,
> so is not a trivial task).
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,  susan
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Just get a Mac. Life's too short. Look at total cost of ownership  
before you play the price game.
There are probably better places than this forum to get the info you  
need. Check your local Macintosh Users  Group (MUG).

Peace and happy hunting.


On Jun 12, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Roger Sopher wrote:



When I made the switch to a mac pro from a pc I found �Switching To The
Mac, Leopard Edition� by David Pogue to be very helpful when I had no  
idea
how some things were done. Available on Amazon and pretty much worth the
price.

Roger

From: Louis Dina <lou@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:53:19 -0000
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: New Computer Advice

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , "Joel  
Treadwell"
<frodeaux@...> wrote:
 >
 >
 > Lou-
 > The Yahoo group I/O MUG is a great resource for Mac owners. I am  
continually
amazed at the responsiveness to both entry level and complex issues  
related to
Macs. These folks truly want to help whenever possible. Feel free to  
ask any Mac
related question, no matter how simple. It's also well worth lurking  
just to
build you knowledge.
 >
 > Joel

Thanks Joel.

I will check it out right now. I'm sure I have plenty of novice  
questions
to ask.

Lou

 >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]