Digital BW, The Print

Hello,

I have read through all of Paul Roarks pages and PDF's about B&W and the R1800, and I have a couple questions about this.

With the "3-MK" process for printing with the R1800 on matte paper somewhat solidified, could I for ILFORD GALLERIE SMOOTH PEARL paper printing use a "3-PK" setup filling all three with the MIS R1800 Photo Black?

I am curious because I have had great results for years with my Epson 1280-S and the UT2 set and ILFORD GALLERIE SMOOTH PEARL, but now my 1280 is dying and would like my R1800 to do both color and B&W for now.

If the "3-PK" could work, would I be able to run a  "3-PK" & "3-MK" in the R1800 simultaneously with a "glop" to make dual purpose B&W R1800? I do not really need a color printer.

Any insight will be of great help.

-- 
Cheers,
Johnny

"johnny_kurtz" <johnny@...> wrote:

>... could I for ILFORD GALLERIE SMOOTH PEARL paper printing 
> use a "3-PK" setup filling all three with the MIS R1800 Photo Black?

It would probably work.  The image would be very warm, and you'd have to make some new profiles.  The basic, manually-drawn 3 MK curve might be close enough to simply re-linearize it for the new ink-paper combination.

I think there are some on this forum that are or were doing something like this.

 
> I am curious because I have had great results for years with
> my Epson 1280-S and the UT2 set and ILFORD GALLERIE SMOOTH 
> PEARL, but now my 1280 is dying and would like my R1800 
> to do both color and B&W for now.

If you like a neutral image tone, try the HP Z3100/3200 Photo Black.

 
> If the "3-PK" could work, would I be able to run a  "3-PK" 
> & "3-MK" in the R1800 simultaneously with a "glop" to make 
> dual purpose B&W R1800? I do not really need a color printer.

I would think so.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

Thank you for your input, it is very much appreciated.

I will search these forums to flush out any other users trying this method, to see if there are any pitfalls to avoid.

Cheers,
Johnny

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> "johnny_kurtz" <johnny@> wrote:
> 
> >... could I for ILFORD GALLERIE SMOOTH PEARL paper printing 
> > use a "3-PK" setup filling all three with the MIS R1800 Photo Black?
> 
> It would probably work.  The image would be very warm, and you'd have to make some new profiles.  The basic, manually-drawn 3 MK curve might be close enough to simply re-linearize it for the new ink-paper combination.
> 
> I think there are some on this forum that are or were doing something like this.
> 
>  
> > I am curious because I have had great results for years with
> > my Epson 1280-S and the UT2 set and ILFORD GALLERIE SMOOTH 
> > PEARL, but now my 1280 is dying and would like my R1800 
> > to do both color and B&W for now.
> 
> If you like a neutral image tone, try the HP Z3100/3200 Photo Black.
> 
>  
> > If the "3-PK" could work, would I be able to run a  "3-PK" 
> > & "3-MK" in the R1800 simultaneously with a "glop" to make 
> > dual purpose B&W R1800? I do not really need a color printer.
> 
> I would think so.  
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Johnny,

I have been making some wonderful B&W prints with 3PK in the R1800 on Epson Exhibition Fiber paper.  But you need to leave the color inks in the printer to get a neutral tone.  The PK inks are warm without cooling them down a bit.

You could use MIS inks, but I am using all OEM inks.  I have too many problems with clogging, and lost time dealing with the clogs.  The 3K printing process isn't something I do every day and I did have clogging problems with third party inks that I do not have with Epson inks.

I use modified OEM Photo Black ink cartridges in all three slots.  I remove the chips on the cartridges that go into the MK and GO slots and replace them with reset chips from spent MK and GO cartridges.  I also cut the indexing pins off the cartridges, and label these cartridges as being modified to fit these slots.

You can do the same for 3MK printing as well, and change from glossy papers to matte and back again.  The ink supply in the head is small enough that no extra purging is necessary.  It is purged by the cartridge change cycle.

I have used this process with Ilford's Peril, but like the Epson paper better.  The ilford is a good choice if you would want a warmer print though.  It looks very nice for warm B&W portraits.

Check the old postings for more details about my process.  It works well with a very dark dMax.  I consider these prints every bit as good, if not better, as the ones I was making in the darkroom.

Ben




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johnny_kurtz" <johnny@...> wrote:

>
> Hello,
> 
> I have read through all of Paul Roarks pages and PDF's about B&W and the R1800, and I have a couple questions about this.
> 
> With the "3-MK" process for printing with the R1800 on matte paper somewhat solidified, could I for ILFORD GALLERIE SMOOTH PEARL paper printing use a "3-PK" setup filling all three with the MIS R1800 Photo Black?
> 
> I am curious because I have had great results for years with my Epson 1280-S and the UT2 set and ILFORD GALLERIE SMOOTH PEARL, but now my 1280 is dying and would like my R1800 to do both color and B&W for now.
> 
> If the "3-PK" could work, would I be able to run a  "3-PK" & "3-MK" in the R1800 simultaneously with a "glop" to make dual purpose B&W R1800? I do not really need a color printer.
> 
> Any insight will be of great help.
> 
> -- 
> Cheers,
> Johnny
>

Hi,

First of all, many thanks to this group and special thanks to Paul to share all your knowledge and experience. Many times already I have achieved superior results in following your expertise and your guides on your website helped me to get started with my black and white printing.

A word about my setup: we have an Epson R2400 with CIS system (Lyson), replaced the black inks with HP Photo Black + Grey + Light Grey (Z3100) in order to achieve more neutral toned black and white prints. I mainly print on Canson Satin, Ilford Smooth Pearl + Gold Fibre and Harman FB AI Gloss, so mainly PK printing.

I have 2 problems:
1. printing through QTR RIP and using solely the 3 black (HP) inks without toner colors, we did notice quite some copperish, reflective "bronzing" with these HP Vivera carbon black pigment inks on our satin papers. This is somewhat a bummer.
2. using Epson's driver in ABW mode, we achieve a nice screening and no microbanding but we do not manage to print with only 3 black inks without toner colors (not in ABW, not in Black Only) whereas printing with QTR (in ordered and adaptive hybrid mode) does print 3PK only but gives a lot of microbanding: mainly in the first and last printing lines.

Do you have some recommendations for these 2 issues?

Kind Regards,

Tom


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> "johnny_kurtz" <johnny@> wrote:
> 
> >... could I for ILFORD GALLERIE SMOOTH PEARL paper printing 
> > use a "3-PK" setup filling all three with the MIS R1800 Photo Black?
> 
> It would probably work.  The image would be very warm, and you'd have to make some new profiles.  The basic, manually-drawn 3 MK curve might be close enough to simply re-linearize it for the new ink-paper combination.
> 
> I think there are some on this forum that are or were doing something like this.
> 
>  
> > I am curious because I have had great results for years with
> > my Epson 1280-S and the UT2 set and ILFORD GALLERIE SMOOTH 
> > PEARL, but now my 1280 is dying and would like my R1800 
> > to do both color and B&W for now.
> 
> If you like a neutral image tone, try the HP Z3100/3200 Photo Black.
> 
>  
> > If the "3-PK" could work, would I be able to run a  "3-PK" 
> > & "3-MK" in the R1800 simultaneously with a "glop" to make 
> > dual purpose B&W R1800? I do not really need a color printer.
> 
> I would think so.  
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

"sevendaysprinting" <destudio@...> wrote:
>
>...we have an Epson R2400 with CIS system (Lyson), replaced the black inks with HP Photo Black + Grey + Light Grey (Z3100) in order to achieve more neutral toned black and white prints. ... mainly PK printing.

> I have 2 problems:
> 1. printing through QTR RIP and using solely the 3 black (HP) inks without toner colors, we did notice quite some copperish, reflective "bronzing" with these HP Vivera carbon black pigment inks on our satin papers. This is somewhat a bummer.

Gloss optimizer helps but is less than a perfect solution.  Spraying the print later is more effective but not a step most like to take.

I've found that PK black only bronzes less.  You might try a profile with low ink limits on the midtone inks.  See if that helps.  You might end up balancing smoothness against bronzing.

MIS's use of a coating in the base as opposed to on the individual particles also results is less bronzing.  In fact, diluting HP PK with MIS glop resulted in midtone inks with lower bronzing.

> 2. using Epson's driver in ABW mode, we achieve a nice screening and no microbanding but we do not manage to print with only 3 black inks without toner colors (not in ABW, not in Black Only) whereas printing with QTR (in ordered and adaptive hybrid mode) does print 3PK only but gives a lot of microbanding: mainly in the first and last printing lines.

Three inks is marginal in some printers, and most of the modern printers seem to need both rollers engaged to get the best paper transport.  The Epson dithering pattern as well as more inks firing seems to hide the problems more effectively.  I use wider top and bottom margins for most prints now.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com