Doepfer

hi

can anybody tell me which of A137 of doepfer or Bananalogue Serge WVX Wave Multiplier 
Module are more interesting and if WVX is wort of its price (it is much more expensive 
than doepfer stuff) 

any reflections?

thanks 
best
r

hello,

the a137 is my favorite wave multiplier, because it
has the most flexible sound. no other design has
as many parameters as the a137 has, not to mention
the extensive vc-capabilities. if i had to choose
only one wave multiplier for myself, then i would 
take the a137. the module incorporates one very complex
wave mutliplier and offers one output.

the bananalogue serge wvx is also a great module.
it can handle two input signals independently, it even
has three different wave mutlipliers inside (one complex and
two more simpler circuits) and it gives you up to five signal
outputs. but ... each multiplier has only one parameter,
so the wvx is not as flexible in sound as the a137 is,
even with it's three different wave mutliplier circuits.
imho it is also a bigger effort to patch up a wxv, because
it has no attenuators, so you will probably need some
additional modules to get the most out of the wvx.

both modules are worth having for me, because they are different.
the wvx is good if you want that classic serge sound and
if you want to derive more than one timbre at the same time.
the a137 is good if you want the most flexible sound and
extensive voltage control capabilities.

regarding the price, i guess the wvx is greater in price because
of the different ingrediences of the module, but also
because the wvx is hand-built in small quantities.

best wishes

ingo




--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "musicagenera" <rwert@...> wrote:
>
> hi
> 
> can anybody tell me which of A137 of doepfer or Bananalogue Serge 
WVX Wave Multiplier 
> Module are more interesting and if WVX is wort of its price (it is 
much more expensive 

> than doepfer stuff) 
> 
> any reflections?
> 
> thanks 
> best
> r
>

I could be wrong since I have no person. experience with the WVX and
only little with the A137. Anyhow, I used to think that the A137 works
best for signal with none or few harmonics while the WVX works equally
well on signals which are poor or rich in harmonics. Anyone to clarify?

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander
<Florian.Anwander@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> 
> > can anybody tell me which of A137 of doepfer or Bananalogue Serge
WVX Wave Multiplier 
> > Module are more interesting and if WVX is wort of its price (it is
much more expensive 
> > than doepfer stuff) 
> I don't own the Bananalogue/Serge, but I have experience with the 
> original serge module. The main difference to my knowledge is: The
Serge 

> contains two separate single stage Wave Multipliers.
> The Doepfer A-137 contains four stages which are connected fix in 
> series. I find the Doepfer much stronger and much more usefule for fast 
> and direct access. I don't see that there is much more flexibility in 
> haveing two separate stages.
> Also the controlvoltage inputs of the bananalogue do not offer control 
> pots which are extremely necessary.
> 
> Florian
>

Thanks!
--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander
<Florian.Anwander@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Ingo
> 
> > I could be wrong since I have no person. experience with the WVX and
> > only little with the A137. Anyhow, I used to think that the A137 works
> > best for signal with none or few harmonics while the WVX works equally
> > well on signals which are poor or rich in harmonics. Anyone to
clarify?
> Also the WVX works "best" with signals with poor harmonics. The
question 

> is, what you define as "best". The Doepfer works as a WVX if you don't 
> use the "multiples" control (or don't overload the input).
> 
> Florian
>

Hi

> can anybody tell me which of A137 of doepfer or Bananalogue Serge WVX Wave Multiplier 
> Module are more interesting and if WVX is wort of its price (it is much more expensive 
> than doepfer stuff) 
I don't own the Bananalogue/Serge, but I have experience with the 
original serge module. The main difference to my knowledge is: The Serge 
contains two separate single stage Wave Multipliers.
The Doepfer A-137 contains four stages which are connected fix in 
series. I find the Doepfer much stronger and much more usefule for fast 
and direct access. I don't see that there is much more flexibility in 
haveing two separate stages.
Also the controlvoltage inputs of the bananalogue do not offer control 
pots which are extremely necessary.

Florian

Hi Ingo

> I could be wrong since I have no person. experience with the WVX and
> only little with the A137. Anyhow, I used to think that the A137 works
> best for signal with none or few harmonics while the WVX works equally
> well on signals which are poor or rich in harmonics. Anyone to clarify?
Also the WVX works "best" with signals with poor harmonics. The question 
is, what you define as "best". The Doepfer works as a WVX if you don't 
use the "multiples" control (or don't overload the input).

Florian

Hmmm.. I'd asked on this group previously about the A-137's behavior -
 needing a musical description more than a technical one.

So, along the lines of this discussion, and because the Bananalogue
page mentions that for the WVX "The signal from Out 1 of the top
section adds odd overtones.....The bottom section is a full wave
rectifier, transforming waves to positive voltage with even harmonics."

... what is going on in the A-137 re: odd and even harmonics?

- this is useful to know because, for example.. tube amplifiers only
add even harmonics... the sounds of closed-tube instruments such as
organs only have odd harmonics... etc..

????

thanks. -bryan

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "ilanode" <techmeier@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks!
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander
> <Florian.Anwander@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ingo
> > 
> > > I could be wrong since I have no person. experience with the WVX and
> > > only little with the A137. Anyhow, I used to think that the A137
works
> > > best for signal with none or few harmonics while the WVX works
equally
> > > well on signals which are poor or rich in harmonics. Anyone to
> clarify?
> > Also the WVX works "best" with signals with poor harmonics. The
> question 
> > is, what you define as "best". The Doepfer works as a WVX if you
don't 

> > use the "multiples" control (or don't overload the input).
> > 
> > Florian
> >
>

hello bryan,

i'm not quite sure, but i believe that the a137 can do both,
it just depends on the knob settings. but as said, i'm not
sure about this, maybe someone else can verify this?

best wishes

ingo



--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "untiedstates" 
<untiedstates@...> wrote:
>
> Hmmm.. I'd asked on this group previously about the A-137's 
behavior -
>  needing a musical description more than a technical one.
> 
> So, along the lines of this discussion, and because the Bananalogue
> page mentions that for the WVX "The signal from Out 1 of the top
> section adds odd overtones.....The bottom section is a full wave
> rectifier, transforming waves to positive voltage with even 
harmonics."
> 
> ... what is going on in the A-137 re: odd and even harmonics?
> 
> - this is useful to know because, for example.. tube amplifiers only
> add even harmonics... the sounds of closed-tube instruments such as
> organs only have odd harmonics... etc..
> 
> ????
> 
> thanks. -bryan
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "ilanode" <techmeier@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks!
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander
> > <Florian.Anwander@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Ingo
> > > 
> > > > I could be wrong since I have no person. experience with the 
WVX and
> > > > only little with the A137. Anyhow, I used to think that the 
A137

> works
> > > > best for signal with none or few harmonics while the WVX works
> equally
> > > > well on signals which are poor or rich in harmonics. Anyone to
> > clarify?
> > > Also the WVX works "best" with signals with poor harmonics. The
> > question 
> > > is, what you define as "best". The Doepfer works as a WVX if you
> don't 
> > > use the "multiples" control (or don't overload the input).
> > > 
> > > Florian
> > >
> >
>

> ... what is going on in the A-137 re: odd and even harmonics?
>
> - this is useful to know because, for example.. tube amplifiers only
> add even harmonics... the sounds of closed-tube instruments such as
> organs only have odd harmonics... etc..
>
> ????

Dave Pensado in last months Electronic Musician on tube-gear:

"I have noticed that different keys and tempos affect the kind of gear I
like using. For example, F#, A, and E are bright keys and best with tube
gear, while Bb, Eb, and some of the slow tempos sound best with newer gear
and plug-ins.”"

http://emusician.com/tutorials/emusic_mixing_down_speaking/

>
> thanks. -bryan
>
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "ilanode" <techmeier@...> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks!
>> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander
>> <Florian.Anwander@> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Ingo
>> >
>> > > I could be wrong since I have no person. experience with the WVX and
>> > > only little with the A137. Anyhow, I used to think that the A137
> works
>> > > best for signal with none or few harmonics while the WVX works
> equally
>> > > well on signals which are poor or rich in harmonics. Anyone to
>> clarify?
>> > Also the WVX works "best" with signals with poor harmonics. The
>> question
>> > is, what you define as "best". The Doepfer works as a WVX if you
> don't
>> > use the "multiples" control (or don't overload the input).
>> >
>> > Florian
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

How about the sound examples on our website (www.doepfer.com) and on Ingo's
website http://www.selfoscillate.de/modularexamples.htm.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von untiedstates
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. August 2006 08:44
> An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] Re: a 138 vs WVX
>
>
> Hmmm.. I'd asked on this group previously about the A-137's behavior -
>  needing a musical description more than a technical one.
>
> So, along the lines of this discussion, and because the Bananalogue
> page mentions that for the WVX "The signal from Out 1 of the top
> section adds odd overtones.....The bottom section is a full wave
> rectifier, transforming waves to positive voltage with even harmonics."
>
> ... what is going on in the A-137 re: odd and even harmonics?
>
> - this is useful to know because, for example.. tube amplifiers only
> add even harmonics... the sounds of closed-tube instruments such as
> organs only have odd harmonics... etc..
>
> ????
>
> thanks. -bryan
>
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "ilanode" <techmeier@...> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks!
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander
> > <Florian.Anwander@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Ingo
> > >
> > > > I could be wrong since I have no person. experience with the WVX and
> > > > only little with the A137. Anyhow, I used to think that the A137
> works
> > > > best for signal with none or few harmonics while the WVX works
> equally
> > > > well on signals which are poor or rich in harmonics. Anyone to
> > clarify?
> > > Also the WVX works "best" with signals with poor harmonics. The
> > question
> > > is, what you define as "best". The Doepfer works as a WVX if you
> don't
> > > use the "multiples" control (or don't overload the input).
> > >
> > > Florian
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Oh, I know what it sounds like - I have an A-137 and I love it.

If I had a spectrum analyzer I'd figure my question out on my own..
maybe I can find a spectrum analyzer online ???

thanks anyway.. bryan

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <hardware@...> wrote:
>
> How about the sound examples on our website (www.doepfer.com) and on
Ingo's
> website http://www.selfoscillate.de/modularexamples.htm.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
> 
> > -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von untiedstates
> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. August 2006 08:44
> > An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> > Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] Re: a 138 vs WVX
> >
> >
> > Hmmm.. I'd asked on this group previously about the A-137's behavior -
> >  needing a musical description more than a technical one.
> >
> > So, along the lines of this discussion, and because the Bananalogue
> > page mentions that for the WVX "The signal from Out 1 of the top
> > section adds odd overtones.....The bottom section is a full wave
> > rectifier, transforming waves to positive voltage with even
harmonics."
> >
> > ... what is going on in the A-137 re: odd and even harmonics?
> >
> > - this is useful to know because, for example.. tube amplifiers only
> > add even harmonics... the sounds of closed-tube instruments such as
> > organs only have odd harmonics... etc..
> >
> > ????
> >
> > thanks. -bryan
> >
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "ilanode" <techmeier@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander
> > > <Florian.Anwander@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Ingo
> > > >
> > > > > I could be wrong since I have no person. experience with the
WVX and

> > > > > only little with the A137. Anyhow, I used to think that the A137
> > works
> > > > > best for signal with none or few harmonics while the WVX works
> > equally
> > > > > well on signals which are poor or rich in harmonics. Anyone to
> > > clarify?
> > > > Also the WVX works "best" with signals with poor harmonics. The
> > > question
> > > > is, what you define as "best". The Doepfer works as a WVX if you
> > don't
> > > > use the "multiples" control (or don't overload the input).
> > > >
> > > > Florian
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Hi

> If I had a spectrum analyzer I'd figure my question out on my own..
> maybe I can find a spectrum analyzer online ???
If you have an oszilloscope which can take an external voltage for 
horitzontal control, you can use the A-100 to behave as an poormans 
spectrumanalyser:

Feed the signal to analyse through a vcf in bandpass mode and put it to 
scope channel a.

Take a LFO with saw (ramp) as wave form and feed it to a multiple.

One connection from the multiple feeds the control voltage input of the 
cutoff frequencyof the filter over the complete audiorange.

The other connection from the multiple is used as horizontal control of 
the scope.

Done.

Florian

hello

thanks a lot for all comments regarding this subject

best
r

If there are others actually interested in this other than me....

download a spectrum analyzer here:

http://www.brownbear.de/

it works off your computer's soundcard and is free for a trial.

What I found was that the A-137 can emphasize the odd harmonics or the
even harmonics. By just listening you will hear a full sound when even
harmonics are emphasized, and a "pinched" sound when the odd harmonics
are emphasized... this was clearly seen with the spectrum analyzer.

the spectrum analyzer program is very helpful to visualize what's
going on here, and some high frequency harmonics are especially
prominent with certain symmetry settings.. with a fundamental at
1000Hz for convenience, I could get a very loud harmonic that was
almost in ultrasound range at certain settings.

fun.

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander
<Florian.Anwander@...> wrote:

>
> Hi
> 
> > If I had a spectrum analyzer I'd figure my question out on my own..
> > maybe I can find a spectrum analyzer online ???
> If you have an oszilloscope which can take an external voltage for 
> horitzontal control, you can use the A-100 to behave as an poormans 
> spectrumanalyser:
> 
> Feed the signal to analyse through a vcf in bandpass mode and put it to 
> scope channel a.
> 
> Take a LFO with saw (ramp) as wave form and feed it to a multiple.
> 
> One connection from the multiple feeds the control voltage input of the 
> cutoff frequencyof the filter over the complete audiorange.
> 
> The other connection from the multiple is used as horizontal control of 
> the scope.
> 
> Done.
> 
> Florian
>

I'm wondering if any of you out there are using the AS RS510e and, RS510e modules. At £225 for two modules these are not exactly cheap. I do like EMS sounds.... but could i do the job just as well with cheaper doepfer modules? Just how unique is that EMS filter? I wonder if they what they would  give me is really that much different from doepfer and AS low pass filters  and VCAs, EGs and LFOs  - all of which which I already have?



Richard



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wow I was looking at these 2 modules myself today and wondering the same 
thing :-)


Richard wrote:

>
> I'm wondering if any of you out there are using the AS RS510e and, 
> RS510e modules. At £225 for two modules these are not exactly cheap. I 
> do like EMS sounds.... but could i do the job just as well with 
> cheaper doepfer modules? Just how unique is that EMS filter? I wonder 
> if they what they would give me is really that much different from 
> doepfer and AS low pass filters and VCAs, EGs and LFOs - all of which 
> which I already have?
>
> Richard
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, amnesia <amnesia@...> wrote:
>
> Wow I was looking at these 2 modules myself today and wondering the same 
> thing :-)
> 
> 
> Richard wrote:
> >
> > I'm wondering if any of you out there are using the AS RS500e and, 
> > RS510e modules. At £225 for two modules these are not exactly cheap. I 
> > do like EMS sounds.... but could i do the job just as well with 
> > cheaper doepfer modules? Just how unique is that EMS filter? I wonder 
> > if they what they would give me is really that much different from 
> > doepfer and AS low pass filters and VCAs, EGs and LFOs - all of which 
> > which I already have?
> >
> > Richard
> >

I have both modules, the RS-95 VCO (just one and an older RS-90) ...and an AKS ;-)

Though I got them about a months ago and didn't do anything real critical other than 
checking them out for any problems. 

Clearly the Trapezoid generator is more unique and something I wanted another one of.  
Given a lot of modules I'm sure one could recreate it's function, but you are talking about 
quite a few modules to recreate everything on it. The Bananalogue Serge VCS has 
numerous differences, but in it's own way I'd say does even more. But anyway I really 
wanted a trapezoid generator I could easily plug other modules into and actually wrote 
Analogue Systems years ago to complain when they removed it from the "coming soon" 
module list... but yes, while you do get a VCA inside it is pretty costly.

There are fixed width standards on ASys modules, so it's a fairly wide module. It would 
have been cool if the other parameters had VC. You just get the decay time like on the 
EMS. You don't get 

Okay as for the filter, I guess the A-102 VCF9 is sort of like it, right? I don't have that one.

It's cool there are some mp3s of both online
http://www.selfoscillate.de/modularexamples.htm
(search for 9097 on the page)

I was interested in getting the both new and old versions of the EMS filter, which can be 
switched on the RS-500e. The VC resonance is something I was hoping for and I found. 

For those who don't know, the "trademark" EMS sound is variations on the the decay time 
being modulated with an LFO ramp shape and the the trapezoid repeating wave output 
controlling the filter cutoff with the filter in self oscillation. So part of the sound is the 
filter character, but arguably the the trapezoid with changing decay rates is what people 
spot as coming out of an EMS.

EMS wound up slewing the cutoff CV input so that's now a switchable effect making it 
another variation you can get out of the ASys module. (The Doepfer module is just a 
straight forward filter module using a similar topology to the 18db filter, no built in VC 
resonance)

As I've said, I've not really tried to see how close they sound to the real thing. It didn't 
strike me as indistinguishable. Though you definitely get the general functionality as the 
equivalent subsections of an EMS.

Hi all

I just bought my first Doepfers this week....I didn't want to ask for 
sounding stupid, but with the A149 can someone give me an example of a 
patch to use for this what is CVDin etc? oh and again adsrs i understand 
on my Jupiter 8 but can someone give me a patch example please? :-)\\

Harry Hopless
>
>

Hi Harry, tell me of the modules you have besides the A-149. I'm sure all of us can assist you!!
   
  William
  Hawaii

amnesia <amnesia@internode.on.net> wrote:
          Hi all

I just bought my first Doepfers this week....I didn't want to ask for 
sounding stupid, but with the A149 can someone give me an example of a 
patch to use for this what is CVDin etc? oh and again adsrs i understand 
on my Jupiter 8 but can someone give me a patch example please? :-)\\

Harry Hopless
>
> 



         

 		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> amnesia <amnesia@...> wrote:
>           Hi all
> 
> I just bought my first Doepfers this week....I didn't want to ask for 
> sounding stupid, but with the A149 can someone give me an example of a 
> patch to use for this what is CVDin etc? oh and again adsrs i understand 
> on my Jupiter 8 but can someone give me a patch example please? :-)\\
> 
> Harry Hopless

IMHO the legend on the front of the module isn't very obvious. It's for the lower right 
output next to "Man D" and not the more "obvious" output horizontally in line with the CV 
D In jack and knob. 

Okay so feed say a square LFO wave into the lower clock in. Take the lower right output 
and connect it to something you can easily  hear CV control changes in. Like a filter cutoff 
or VCO CV input. You should hear the sound changing randomly. Now try the Man D knob 
and see how it changes like the little bell curve illustration. It's showing the low middle 
and high settings superimposed but of course you can adjust between those illustrated 
settings.

So then as to answer your question, input 0-5 volts into CV D - perhaps an LFO of any 
shape lasting several seconds will work, something fast will make it hard to hear a change. 
What will happen is it will CV the distribution shape as the Man D knob will. Turn the CV D 
knob all the way up and the Man D all the way down to start since the Man D knob has a 
summing effect on your CV.

Also though it may be really obvious, keep in mind that the module is meant to output a 
control signal, so in other words, it's meant to randomly control just about anything else 
with a CV input (even itself) rather than for instance process or produce audio.

Actually I'm curious about any good tricks to use the A-149-2. I know the obvious use 
would be to trigger multiple envelopes or anything that uses a gate. And I guess one could 
feed some outputs into the Boolean module (if you own one) to get more semi-
randomness. I bet the intent would be to take advantage of But are there any other neat 
and less obvious uses anyone knows? I could guess that some A-129-3 vocoder slews or 
the vocoder Synthesis module would yield some good experiments.