Doepfer

This is a dream waiting to happen...what do you say Dieter?

No one does euro miniwaves

How is the A-112 different than a miniwave?


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "cray5656" <amnesia@...> wrote:

>
> This is a dream waiting to happen...what do you say Dieter?
> 
> No one does euro miniwaves
>

these devices are very different.

the a112 is a sampler in the first place.
you can use your recorded sample as waveforms,
so you get a wavetable vco. the a112 is self-contained,
you can use it like a vco when sending a pitch-cv to
the a112.

the miniwave provides a nonlinear transfer function,
using a lookup table. the miniwave has built-in waveforms,
it has no ram and cannot be used as a sampler.
you need a vco to drive the miniwave, so it is not
self-contained. the miniwave is very flexible.
you are not limited to audio signals, it accepts
any input signal, even very slow control voltages.

imho the miniwave makes a much better wavetable vco
than the a112, but it is also more expensive,
especially if you have to add an extra vco to
drive it. 

best wishes

ingo





--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "mritenburg" <mritenburg@...> 
wrote:

>
> How is the A-112 different than a miniwave?
> 
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "cray5656" <amnesia@> wrote:
> >
> > This is a dream waiting to happen...what do you say Dieter?
> > 
> > No one does euro miniwaves
> >
>

hello dieter,

yes, i remember that pcb you're talking about.
i agree that it is a very difficult question what
to store in that eprom. imho standard waveforms don't
make much sense for such a device.

best wishes

ingo


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <hardware@...> wrote:
>
> > This is a dream waiting to happen...what do you say Dieter?
> >
> > No one does euro miniwaves
> 
> We developed kind of a miniwave many years ago. Its more than 7 
years ago as
> the pc board was made with our old Atari based pcb layout software 
(Ingo:
> maybe you remember this board with the two rotary switches to 
select the
> table group, I showed it to you at your last visit). We never 
released it as
> we wanted to have the original PPG wave set available but could not 
get the
> permission. The problem was to find out who is the owner of the 
copyrights
> (Wolfgang Palm or Waldorf or ???) and where we could get the valid
> permission. The most important part of a miniwave are the 
wavetables stored
> in the EPROM. The controlling electronics itself is very simple, 
nothing but
> ADCs that address the EPROM and a DAC that reads the EPROM data. 
E.g. we
> could release a miniwave without EPROM or with some basic 
wavetables only as
> I have no idea concerning the copyrights of wavetables. I don't 
want to deal

> with such judical affairs but develop modules ...
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>

> This is a dream waiting to happen...what do you say Dieter?
>
> No one does euro miniwaves

We developed kind of a miniwave many years ago. Its more than 7 years ago as
the pc board was made with our old Atari based pcb layout software (Ingo:
maybe you remember this board with the two rotary switches to select the
table group, I showed it to you at your last visit). We never released it as
we wanted to have the original PPG wave set available but could not get the
permission. The problem was to find out who is the owner of the copyrights
(Wolfgang Palm or Waldorf or ???) and where we could get the valid
permission. The most important part of a miniwave are the wavetables stored
in the EPROM. The controlling electronics itself is very simple, nothing but
ADCs that address the EPROM and a DAC that reads the EPROM data. E.g. we
could release a miniwave without EPROM or with some basic wavetables only as
I have no idea concerning the copyrights of wavetables. I don't want to deal
with such judical affairs but develop modules ...

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Is there a way to add the non-linear transfer function as an add-on 
module?


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "selfoscillate" 

> the miniwave provides a nonlinear transfer function,
> using a lookup table. the miniwave has built-in waveforms,
> it has no ram and cannot be used as a sampler.
> you need a vco to drive the miniwave, so it is not
> self-contained. the miniwave is very flexible.
> you are not limited to audio signals, it accepts
> any input signal, even very slow control voltages.

i don't think so. a112 and miniwave use different techniques.
it would make much more sense to have them completely separated.

best wishes

ingo



--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "mritenburg" <mritenburg@...> 
wrote:

>
> Is there a way to add the non-linear transfer function as an add-on 
> module?
> 
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "selfoscillate" 
> > the miniwave provides a nonlinear transfer function,
> > using a lookup table. the miniwave has built-in waveforms,
> > it has no ram and cannot be used as a sampler.
> > you need a vco to drive the miniwave, so it is not
> > self-contained. the miniwave is very flexible.
> > you are not limited to audio signals, it accepts
> > any input signal, even very slow control voltages.
>

hello dieter,

i believe that there are copyrights on the wavetables,
but i'm not 100% sure. maybe it is a good idea to ask
waldorf. since this year they are back in the business,
maybe they have a simple answer to the copyright question.

best wishes

ingo



--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <hardware@...> wrote:
>
> > Is there a way to add the non-linear transfer function as an add-
on
> module?
> 
> The miniwave module does the non-linear transfer. And that's how 
it's
> working.
> 
> Analog Input #1 is converted by a 6 bit ADC (analog-to-digital 
converter)
> into a six bit "word" (range 0...63, the PPG waveforms were only 64 
in
> length). This is used to address the first 6 address inputs of a 
memory
> (normally a ROM or EPROM). If a standard sawtooth wave is used and 
the
> offset and amplification adusted accordingly one obtains the 
standard
> wavetable synthesis. But even other waveforms or not an accordingly 
adjusted
> sawtooth may be used to obtain special effects (e.g. picking out 
only a
> fraction of the complete wave). A second ADC (normally controlled 
by a
> modulation signal, e.g. from an ADSR or LFO or ...) is used to 
generate the
> higher addresses for the EPROM. This control voltage is used to 
scan through
> the different waves. Switching from one wave to the next can be 
independent
> from ADC#1 or triggered by ADC#1 (e.g. waveform switching is 
allowed only at
> the maximum or minimum value 0/63). In the first case the wave can 
be
> altered even in the middle of a waveform. In the second case the 
end of the
> wave has to be reached to allow the switching to a new wave.
> Finally a rotary switch (e.g. with 16 positions) can be used to 
select a
> waveform set.
> 
> The module could be used also as a CV processor if ADC#1 is fed not 
with an
> audio signal (e.g. sawtooth) but a slowly changing control voltage 
(e.g.
> ADSR or LFO).
> 
> As said before: not very complicated from the technical point of 
view. But
> without good wavetables it's nothing ...
> And we do not want to get troubles with wavetable copyrights 
(provided that

> there are copyright)
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
> 
> (P.S. Maybe we have a lawyer in the group who knows details)
>

> Is there a way to add the non-linear transfer function as an add-on
module?

The miniwave module does the non-linear transfer. And that's how it's
working.

Analog Input #1 is converted by a 6 bit ADC (analog-to-digital converter)
into a six bit "word" (range 0...63, the PPG waveforms were only 64 in
length). This is used to address the first 6 address inputs of a memory
(normally a ROM or EPROM). If a standard sawtooth wave is used and the
offset and amplification adusted accordingly one obtains the standard
wavetable synthesis. But even other waveforms or not an accordingly adjusted
sawtooth may be used to obtain special effects (e.g. picking out only a
fraction of the complete wave). A second ADC (normally controlled by a
modulation signal, e.g. from an ADSR or LFO or ...) is used to generate the
higher addresses for the EPROM. This control voltage is used to scan through
the different waves. Switching from one wave to the next can be independent
from ADC#1 or triggered by ADC#1 (e.g. waveform switching is allowed only at
the maximum or minimum value 0/63). In the first case the wave can be
altered even in the middle of a waveform. In the second case the end of the
wave has to be reached to allow the switching to a new wave.
Finally a rotary switch (e.g. with 16 positions) can be used to select a
waveform set.

The module could be used also as a CV processor if ADC#1 is fed not with an
audio signal (e.g. sawtooth) but a slowly changing control voltage (e.g.
ADSR or LFO).

As said before: not very complicated from the technical point of view. But
without good wavetables it's nothing ...
And we do not want to get troubles with wavetable copyrights (provided that
there are copyright)

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

(P.S. Maybe we have a lawyer in the group who knows details)

> As said before: not very complicated from the technical point of  
> view. But
> without good wavetables it's nothing ...

Between all the people on this group and maybe a contest of sorts on  
doepfer.de, I'm sure a healthy selection of good wavetables can be  
generated.

Just an idea!

Daniel Ornelas

Thank you for the detailed explanation!

Is this "non-linear transfer function"  different than using a 
wavetable as a waveshaper?


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <hardware@...> wrote:

>
> > Is there a way to add the non-linear transfer function as an add-on
> module?
> 
> The miniwave module does the non-linear transfer. And that's how 
> it's working.

> Thank you for the detailed explanation!
>
> Is this "non-linear transfer function" different than using a
> wavetable as a waveshaper?

No. If a sawtooth is used as input it represents the linear input (i.e.
linear increasing input values 0...63). For each input value anoutput value
is stored in the EEPROM and converted into an anlog voltage by a DAC. If you
use a sawtooth as input (or a high-speed VCO that is used to trigger a 6 bit
counter to generate the addresses for the look-up table) one obtains
wavetable synthesis. But it can be treated also as a waveshaper with
sawtooth (i.e. linear) input. Only if another waveform or an
amplified/attenuated/offset sawtooth is used the waveshaping becomes more
obvious.

In other words: if the wavetable is not changed dynamically it's indeed
nothing but a waveshaper. The main difference to an analog waveshaper (like
the A-137 wave multiplier or the A-136 waveshaper) is the digital,
non-continuous behaviour: only 6 bit/64 input steps and 8 bit/256 output
steps.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer