Doepfer

My A-164-1 Manual gate works fine with some modules. However, I can't 
get it to trigger A-148 S&H. Curiously, if I first run the A-164-1 
through a LPF (no resonance, cutoff frequency at max), then the 
triggering works as expected...

> My A-164-1 Manual gate works fine with some modules. However, I can't
> get it to trigger A-148 S&H. Curiously, if I first run the A-164-1
> through a LPF (no resonance, cutoff frequency at max), then the
> triggering works as expected...

I'll try out this combo to find out what's the reason. Which version of the
A-148 do you use (the old one with CD4053 and no jumpers or the new one with
DG442 and jumpers for T&H/S&H selection ? In the last case please try out if
T&H does not work as well.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Indeed, T&H works correctly but S&H doesn't. Initially I had both 
units in S&H mode.

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <hardware@...> wrote:
>
> > My A-164-1 Manual gate works fine with some modules. However, I 
can't
> > get it to trigger A-148 S&H. Curiously, if I first run the A-164-1
> > through a LPF (no resonance, cutoff frequency at max), then the
> > triggering works as expected...
> 
> I'll try out this combo to find out what's the reason. Which 
version of the
> A-148 do you use (the old one with CD4053 and no jumpers or the new 
one with
> DG442 and jumpers for T&H/S&H selection ? In the last case please 
try out if

> T&H does not work as well.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>

> Indeed, T&H works correctly but S&H doesn't. Initially I had both
> units in S&H mode.

I have checked the A-164-1/A-148 combo with A-148 in S&H mode. You are
right: this combo does not work. The reason is the AC coupling of the A-148
input in S&H mode in combination with the way how the gate signal is
generated by the A-164-1 (connection to +12V via protection resistor). If
the A-164-1 is not operated the output is open and the coupling capacitor of
the A-148 does not discharge. The T&H does work as in this case the input of
the A-148 is DC coupled.

I found a simple solution: solder a pull down resistor (about 100k) between
GND and the A-148 input. The resistor can be soldered directly to the
corresponding terminals of the socket on the bottom side of the A-148 pcb.
The 100k resistor connects the A-148 input to GND when the button of the
A-164-1 is not operated. Then the AC coupling capacitor of the A-148 is
discharged as necessary. I have tried successfully an 100k resistor but I'm
sure that any other value in the range 47k ... 220k should do the job.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Thank you. Maybe I will try the fix.

Hello,

I just bought a 164-1 and a 174-1 specifically to use together with a 148 S&H, and now find that it doesn't work, and this old conversation.

I have both an older and a new A-148, and it doesn't work on either; on the newer one, it works in T&H mode as described below.

Which (old or new A-148) is easiest to modify?  And could someone please provide very detailed instructions on how to do so?  I'm not very experienced with a soldering iron.

Many thanks,
Ernst

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <hardware@...> wrote:

>
> > Indeed, T&H works correctly but S&H doesn't. Initially I had both
> > units in S&H mode.
> 
> I have checked the A-164-1/A-148 combo with A-148 in S&H mode. You are
> right: this combo does not work. The reason is the AC coupling of the A-148
> input in S&H mode in combination with the way how the gate signal is
> generated by the A-164-1 (connection to +12V via protection resistor). If
> the A-164-1 is not operated the output is open and the coupling capacitor of
> the A-148 does not discharge. The T&H does work as in this case the input of
> the A-148 is DC coupled.
> 
> I found a simple solution: solder a pull down resistor (about 100k) between
> GND and the A-148 input. The resistor can be soldered directly to the
> corresponding terminals of the socket on the bottom side of the A-148 pcb.
> The 100k resistor connects the A-148 input to GND when the button of the
> A-164-1 is not operated. Then the AC coupling capacitor of the A-148 is
> discharged as necessary. I have tried successfully an 100k resistor but I'm
> sure that any other value in the range 47k ... 220k should do the job.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "E Karel" <eklkrl@...> wrote:

> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <hardware@> wrote:
> >
> > > Indeed, T&H works correctly but S&H doesn't. Initially I had both
> > > units in S&H mode.
> > 
> > I have checked the A-164-1/A-148 combo with A-148 in S&H mode. You are
> > right: this combo does not work. The reason is the AC coupling of the A-148
> > input in S&H mode in combination with the way how the gate signal is
> > generated by the A-164-1 (connection to +12V via protection resistor). If
> > the A-164-1 is not operated the output is open and the coupling capacitor of
> > the A-148 does not discharge. The T&H does work as in this case the input of
> > the A-148 is DC coupled.
> > 
> > I found a simple solution: solder a pull down resistor (about 100k) between
> > GND and the A-148 input. The resistor can be soldered directly to the
> > corresponding terminals of the socket on the bottom side of the A-148 pcb.
> > The 100k resistor connects the A-148 input to GND when the button of the
> > A-164-1 is not operated. Then the AC coupling capacitor of the A-148 is
> > discharged as necessary. I have tried successfully an 100k resistor but I'm
> > sure that any other value in the range 47k ... 220k should do the job.
> > 
> > Best wishes
> > Dieter Doepfer
> >
>

Hello,

I've just tried this solution, and I think I must be doing something wrong, because it still doesn't work.  I soldered a 100k-Ohm resistor (1/4 watt, 5% tolerance) connecting what I think is the input and GND on the top Trigger Input socket on the A-148 -- looking at the left (back) side of the board, these are the two top-right solder points.  Is that correct?  It doesn't seem to do anything.  It still works as S&H with other triggers, but not with the A-164-1.  What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,
Ernst

Hello

>  looking at the left (back) side of the board, these are the two top-right solder points.  Is that correct?
I think those are not right. I marked the picture from the doepfer website:
http://fa.utfs.org/diy/a100/doepfer_a-148_marked.jpg
On the center picture you see the socket on the top. You have to solder 
the resistor between the lower(!) pins, one direct at the border of the 
pcb, the other more to the IC.
On the right picture you can see that the pins are those, which are in 
Line with the IC. Not the most outer pins!

Florian

Thanks so much for doing that, Florian!

It's funny, because I followed your instructions and it still didn't work.  I started wondering if it might be because it was the older version of the A-148 (version 2, 1996), so I tried it on my newer A-148, and it worked perfectly.

So, apparently there's some other differences between the two versions of A-148? 

Thanks again, Florian --
Ernst



--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander <fanwander@...> wrote:

>
> Hello
> 
> >  looking at the left (back) side of the board, these are the two top-right solder points.  Is that correct?
> I think those are not right. I marked the picture from the doepfer website:
> http://fa.utfs.org/diy/a100/doepfer_a-148_marked.jpg
> On the center picture you see the socket on the top. You have to solder 
> the resistor between the lower(!) pins, one direct at the border of the 
> pcb, the other more to the IC.
> On the right picture you can see that the pins are those, which are in 
> Line with the IC. Not the most outer pins!
> 
> Florian
>

Thanks, but there's no urgency, since my problem is solved by using the newer S&H for this purpose.  It's just a matter of curiosity.

All best,
Ernst


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander <fanwander@...> wrote:

>
> Hello Ernst
> 
> > So, apparently there's some other differences between the two versions of A-148?
> I have to check the service manuals later. Perhaps it will be tomorrow, 
> that I can answer.
> 
> Florian
>

Hello Ernst

> So, apparently there's some other differences between the two versions of A-148?
I have to check the service manuals later. Perhaps it will be tomorrow, 
that I can answer.

Florian

> Thanks so much for doing that, Florian!
>
> It's funny, because I followed your instructions and it still
> didn't work.  I started wondering if it might be because it was
> the older version of the A-148 (version 2, 1996), so I tried it
> on my newer A-148, and it worked perfectly.
>
> So, apparently there's some other differences between the two
> versions of A-148?
>
> Thanks again, Florian --
> Ernst

I took a look at our records. There are four versions of the A-148 available
(and the latest version 4 is already equipped with the 100k pull-down
resistors at the Trig inputs). But the input stages are nearly the same for
all four versions (a capacitor connected to the Trig input for AC coupling).
From the theory the 100k pull-down at the Trig In socket should also work
for the versions 1 and 2. Unfortunately I don't have a version 2 from 1996
available to try it out. Maybe a smaller value for the pull-down (e.g. 10k)
is required because the input capacitor is 10nF (compared to 330pF of the
versions 3 and 4).

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

I just wanted inform you that the knob manufacturer (ReAn
Sulzer/Switzerland) has stopped the production of the knobs that were used
in the A-100, MAQ16/3 and other products. We tried to buy the productions
tools from ReAn as they are no longer used. But ReAn was not willing to sell
the moulds. We are about to find another manufacturer who is able to produce
a copy of the knob but I'm not sure if the copies will look exactly the
same. I assume that all modules manufactured until end of this year will
still be equipped with the original ReAn version of the knobs. But from
early in 2012 the modules will be delivered little by little with the new
knobs. We will try to get new knobs that look as close as possible to the
old ones but I'm not sure if there may be a small noticeable difference.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

I wonder what their logic was to not sell the knob production tooling?
Seems kind of rude to stop producing the knobs and even more rude not to
sell the tooling!

Lots of companies used the REAN knobs.

> I just wanted inform you that the knob manufacturer (ReAn
> Sulzer/Switzerland) has stopped the production of the knobs that were used
> in the A-100, MAQ16/3 and other products. We tried to buy the productions
> tools from ReAn as they are no longer used. But ReAn was not willing to
> sell
> the moulds. We are about to find another manufacturer who is able to
> produce
> a copy of the knob but I'm not sure if the copies will look exactly the
> same. I assume that all modules manufactured until end of this year will
> still be equipped with the original ReAn version of the knobs. But from
> early in 2012 the modules will be delivered little by little with the new
> knobs. We will try to get new knobs that look as close as possible to the
> old ones but I'm not sure if there may be a small noticeable difference.
>
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>
>

Hi Dieter,

The Cliff rep told me about this several months ago but I thought it was just him trying to sell me Cliff knobs. I guess it is the whole P570 range and not just the grey with black pointer types - or is it all Re'an knobs (even the soft touch ones that AS use)? 

I took ages to select a knob type for my (Synovatron) CV Tools modules (black with red pointer) and will be dissapointed if I have to select another type - not quite such a headache for me as it is for you though and I do empaphise.

Best wishes
Tony (Synovatron Electronic Music)

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <yahoo@...> wrote:

>
> I just wanted inform you that the knob manufacturer (ReAn
> Sulzer/Switzerland) has stopped the production of the knobs that were used
> in the A-100, MAQ16/3 and other products. We tried to buy the productions
> tools from ReAn as they are no longer used. But ReAn was not willing to sell
> the moulds. We are about to find another manufacturer who is able to produce
> a copy of the knob but I'm not sure if the copies will look exactly the
> same. I assume that all modules manufactured until end of this year will
> still be equipped with the original ReAn version of the knobs. But from
> early in 2012 the modules will be delivered little by little with the new
> knobs. We will try to get new knobs that look as close as possible to the
> old ones but I'm not sure if there may be a small noticeable difference.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>

although i have no problem with the original grey Doepfer knobs... i'm sure some users will party soon...    :D

btw, Dieter, you may just try to put new knobs that do not look similar to the old ones....

 


________________________________

From: "yahoo@doepfer.de" <yahoo@doepfer.de>
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:19 PM
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] A-100 knobs change


  
I just wanted inform you that the knob manufacturer (ReAn
Sulzer/Switzerland) has stopped the production of the knobs that were used
in the A-100, MAQ16/3 and other products. We tried to buy the productions
tools from ReAn as they are no longer used. But ReAn was not willing to sell
the moulds. We are about to find another manufacturer who is able to produce
a copy of the knob but I'm not sure if the copies will look exactly the
same. I assume that all modules manufactured until end of this year will
still be equipped with the original ReAn version of the knobs. But from
early in 2012 the modules will be delivered little by little with the new
knobs. We will try to get new knobs that look as close as possible to the
old ones but I'm not sure if there may be a small noticeable difference.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Hi Dieter,
>
> The Cliff rep told me about this several months ago but I thought
> it was just him trying to sell me Cliff knobs. I guess it is the
> whole P570 range and not just the grey with black pointer types -
> or is it all Re'an knobs (even the soft touch ones that AS use)?
>
> I took ages to select a knob type for my (Synovatron) CV Tools
> modules (black with red pointer) and will be dissapointed if I
> have to select another type - not quite such a headache for me as
> it is for you though and I do empaphise.
>
> Best wishes
> Tony (Synovatron Electronic Music)

Hello Tony,

the German ReAn/Sulzer representative (Adam) told me that the complete knob
production will be stopped. But that's a second hand information and I
cannot 100% confirm that. But I think it's true as the ReAn knobs have been
removed from several online shops (e.g. Mouser) or are available only while
stocks last(e.g. SOS electronic sell-off of ReAn knobs:
www.soselectronic.com).

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer